Tell Me :
Talk
Thanks for doing the math, AEG have clearly had to "flex price" a lot to fill in the arenas but you gotta do what you gotta do and the average price is still crazy high when you think that in 2002 the top price was...$300!
I was a bit surprised by the low capacity of the Oracle Arena (reducing capacity -> easier to show a sellout) since it's supposed to be 20,000, well as it turns out both The Who and Muse showed sellouts there with a capacity of about 11,500 vs 14,133 for The Stones! So one has to assume that either The Stones sold a lot of crappier seats (I'd imagine the stage would be in the same spot more or less?) or these other guys are "cooking" the books...oh and average price for The Who : $88 and for Muse : $67.
There were people near me at the Vegas show that were just getting to their seats after Keith's set.
SOLD OUT just like the shirt says:
That is just so freakin' strategic!
there are a group of traveling stones fans who only want to see the warhorses. their motto is: "give me brown sugar or give me death."
They also travel single file..........as to hide their numbers.....like Sand People
maybe this group of people heard jaggers bad phrasing now when he sings and thought jagger said "war horses couldn't drag me away"
You may not be familiar with the term 'gross' as it is different from the word 'net'. Net is AFTER all expenses. GROSS is before.
The stones 'net' $80 million from the $86 million. They'll have their own expenses, but that's another discussion.
The rest I presume goes to AEG. As long has AEG has zero expenses, they net the $6 million.
If they have any expenses whatsoever, they're deducted from the remaining gross.
So, as this is a fairly highly risky venture I'd say their margins are probably pretty thin.
Ordinarily for a risky investment, you'd want a 'risk premium' to compensate you for the risk taken...I don't see much here, unless they're making a mint in merchandising and parking, as has been opined earlier in this thread.
Remember that the December shows had a top price of $800 in the States.
Also, they (AEG) are making a fortune on the merch.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-24 03:13 by TeddyB1018.
Another factor for AEG to take this on is that producing a Stones tour helps their reputation. This is worth how many millions? Just saying...not an original thought from me.
How many people have produced a Stones tour since Bill Graham really got them into the large long lucrative tours? This is an exclusive club that AEG is now a member of
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-24 11:37 by triceratops.
That's generally if every seat behind the stage was to be sold. Before big productions, bands used to do that. Not anymore. Wikipedia is not the right source for this particular information.
from the promoters!
Quite a few tickets were sold on the day of the show for both the 02 London concerts in November. I got front row right in the middle at 5pm for the 2nd night.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-24 12:30 by Silver Dagger.
See my post at the top of the page, I did some research and found that Muse and The Who sold out the Oracle Arena with...11,500 seats, so if the Stone/AEG are cheating, these other guys are cheating even more ;-)
it depends of stage size and gear too. most places don't sell seats behind the stage
Correct.
Well I think it depends on how you define "sellout". If you define it like "every ticket printed has been sold" it is always a sellout cause tickets are printed on demand nowadays, not in advance like in the old days.
I have been to shows of the Bigger Bang tour where quite a few blocks were more than half empty (and I don't mean those behind the stage) and Billboard still reported sellouts.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-24 15:04 by firebird.
yup
He's kicking himself for all the money he left on the table.
The seating capacity for the MGM Grand Garden is definitely not 16,800 for end stage setups, even counting 'behind stage' seating. It does max out at about that 13,327 number quoted. If you go the hotel's website and look for seating charts for Garden Arena shows, it will (weirdly) show you the tech spec version. Complete with color coded pricing mapping, seating capacity for the particular stage setup, and even available exits.
That said, I had a single $250 up in sec. 216, but moved down quick to sec. 16, row K, and had 4 vacant seats to myself. There were definitely a fair amount of empty seats in the lower bowl, as well as a big block at the back of the floor on the right side.
164.000 punters in 3 shows
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: May 23, 2013 19:20
Quote
Alfonz
These figures indicate that the shows might be "sold out", but in order to do this, AEG have had to drop prices significantly and are not making as much as they might have hoped. Maybe even relying on food/beverage/parking/merch to make a profit.
2012 shows (figures posted in thread by superglen):
Average attendance per show = 14,740
Average price per ticket = $525
Average gross per show = $7.74 million
2013 shows:
Average attendance per show = 13,594
Average price per ticket = $355 (though Vegas was $460)
Average gross per show = $4.83 million.
Thanks for doing the math, AEG have clearly had to "flex price" a lot to fill in the arenas but you gotta do what you gotta do and the average price is still crazy high when you think that in 2002 the top price was...$300!
I was a bit surprised by the low capacity of the Oracle Arena (reducing capacity -> easier to show a sellout) since it's supposed to be 20,000, well as it turns out both The Who and Muse showed sellouts there with a capacity of about 11,500 vs 14,133 for The Stones! So one has to assume that either The Stones sold a lot of crappier seats (I'd imagine the stage would be in the same spot more or less?) or these other guys are "cooking" the books...oh and average price for The Who : $88 and for Muse : $67.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
lettingitbleed
()
Date: May 23, 2013 19:21
Sold out my ass!
Vegas had plenty of empty seats in my row alone and many more throughout the arena!
Unless I am to believe all those people in the empty seats were purchased by people who decided not to show up....
Vegas had plenty of empty seats in my row alone and many more throughout the arena!
Unless I am to believe all those people in the empty seats were purchased by people who decided not to show up....
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
Thrylan
()
Date: May 23, 2013 19:26
Thats my gift to the Stones, I buy a 250$ ticket even if I can't show......you know, to make it look good.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
uhbuhgullayew
()
Date: May 23, 2013 20:02
Quote
lettingitbleed
Sold out my ass!
Vegas had plenty of empty seats in my row alone and many more throughout the arena!
Unless I am to believe all those people in the empty seats were purchased by people who decided not to show up....
There were people near me at the Vegas show that were just getting to their seats after Keith's set.
SOLD OUT just like the shirt says:
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 23, 2013 20:21
Quote
uhbuhgullayewQuote
lettingitbleed
Sold out my ass!
Vegas had plenty of empty seats in my row alone and many more throughout the arena!
Unless I am to believe all those people in the empty seats were purchased by people who decided not to show up....
There were people near me at the Vegas show that were just getting to their seats after Keith's set.
That is just so freakin' strategic!
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
GRNRBITW
()
Date: May 23, 2013 20:24
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
uhbuhgullayewQuote
lettingitbleed
Sold out my ass!
Vegas had plenty of empty seats in my row alone and many more throughout the arena!
Unless I am to believe all those people in the empty seats were purchased by people who decided not to show up....
There were people near me at the Vegas show that were just getting to their seats after Keith's set.
That is just so freakin' strategic!
there are a group of traveling stones fans who only want to see the warhorses. their motto is: "give me brown sugar or give me death."
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
mr_dja
()
Date: May 23, 2013 20:57
Based on the chart bv posted on the previous page of this thread:
7 shows so far
Gross: $33,793,023
Average per show: $4,827,574.71
IF the average stays consistant:
After 18 shows:
Projected Gross: $86,896,344.83
Stones Rumored Guarantee: $80,000,000.00
AEG PROFIT: $6,896,344.83 or 8.62% over roughly four months.
I have no idea what margin tours typically generate for their investors but, in this day and age, I'd be pretty happy with an 8+% return on my investment after apx. four months. Not sure if AEG will be happy with the return they end up with but if they are, we may be witnessing the birth of a new ticketing/pricing strategy/system.
Regardless, I'm still hoping there will be shows numbering 19+ and some of them will be in the SE USA.
Peace,
Mr DJA
7 shows so far
Gross: $33,793,023
Average per show: $4,827,574.71
IF the average stays consistant:
After 18 shows:
Projected Gross: $86,896,344.83
Stones Rumored Guarantee: $80,000,000.00
AEG PROFIT: $6,896,344.83 or 8.62% over roughly four months.
I have no idea what margin tours typically generate for their investors but, in this day and age, I'd be pretty happy with an 8+% return on my investment after apx. four months. Not sure if AEG will be happy with the return they end up with but if they are, we may be witnessing the birth of a new ticketing/pricing strategy/system.
Regardless, I'm still hoping there will be shows numbering 19+ and some of them will be in the SE USA.
Peace,
Mr DJA
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
Thrylan
()
Date: May 23, 2013 23:49
Quote
GRNRBITWQuote
treaclefingersQuote
uhbuhgullayewQuote
lettingitbleed
Sold out my ass!
Vegas had plenty of empty seats in my row alone and many more throughout the arena!
Unless I am to believe all those people in the empty seats were purchased by people who decided not to show up....
There were people near me at the Vegas show that were just getting to their seats after Keith's set.
That is just so freakin' strategic!
there are a group of traveling stones fans who only want to see the warhorses. their motto is: "give me brown sugar or give me death."
They also travel single file..........as to hide their numbers.....like Sand People
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: May 24, 2013 00:23
Quote
GRNRBITWQuote
treaclefingersQuote
uhbuhgullayewQuote
lettingitbleed
Sold out my ass!
Vegas had plenty of empty seats in my row alone and many more throughout the arena!
Unless I am to believe all those people in the empty seats were purchased by people who decided not to show up....
There were people near me at the Vegas show that were just getting to their seats after Keith's set.
That is just so freakin' strategic!
there are a group of traveling stones fans who only want to see the warhorses. their motto is: "give me brown sugar or give me death."
maybe this group of people heard jaggers bad phrasing now when he sings and thought jagger said "war horses couldn't drag me away"
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 24, 2013 01:04
Quote
mr_dja
Based on the chart bv posted on the previous page of this thread:
7 shows so far
Gross: $33,793,023
Average per show: $4,827,574.71
IF the average stays consistant:
After 18 shows:
Projected Gross: $86,896,344.83
Stones Rumored Guarantee: $80,000,000.00
AEG PROFIT: $6,896,344.83 or 8.62% over roughly four months.
I have no idea what margin tours typically generate for their investors but, in this day and age, I'd be pretty happy with an 8+% return on my investment after apx. four months. Not sure if AEG will be happy with the return they end up with but if they are, we may be witnessing the birth of a new ticketing/pricing strategy/system.
Regardless, I'm still hoping there will be shows numbering 19+ and some of them will be in the SE USA.
Peace,
Mr DJA
You may not be familiar with the term 'gross' as it is different from the word 'net'. Net is AFTER all expenses. GROSS is before.
The stones 'net' $80 million from the $86 million. They'll have their own expenses, but that's another discussion.
The rest I presume goes to AEG. As long has AEG has zero expenses, they net the $6 million.
If they have any expenses whatsoever, they're deducted from the remaining gross.
So, as this is a fairly highly risky venture I'd say their margins are probably pretty thin.
Ordinarily for a risky investment, you'd want a 'risk premium' to compensate you for the risk taken...I don't see much here, unless they're making a mint in merchandising and parking, as has been opined earlier in this thread.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
TeddyB1018
()
Date: May 24, 2013 03:05
Quote
Alfonz
These figures indicate that the shows might be "sold out", but in order to do this, AEG have had to drop prices significantly and are not making as much as they might have hoped. Maybe even relying on food/beverage/parking/merch to make a profit.
2012 shows (figures posted in thread by superglen):
Average attendance per show = 14,740
Average price per ticket = $525
Average gross per show = $7.74 million
2013 shows:
Average attendance per show = 13,594
Average price per ticket = $355 (though Vegas was $460)
Average gross per show = $4.83 million
Attendance per show is slightly less in May, but that's purely due to venue capacity. This slightly biases the gross figures, but can still see a direct comparison in the average price per ticket.
Interestingly, the supposedly much smaller Vegas show held more than Anaheim and San Jose, and only 800 less than LA and Oakland.
With more time to sell tickets for the later shows, I'd expect the price per ticket to increase as the tour goes on, and AEG might be able to squeeze some more profit out.
I'm not trying to make a negative comment on the tour. The Stones were magnificent at the Las Vegas show I saw, and they are still the biggest band in the world. Just a fact that the tour hasn't made the money (yet) that was made in the December shows, and is not appearing all that profitable for the promoter up to this point.
Remember that the December shows had a top price of $800 in the States.
Also, they (AEG) are making a fortune on the merch.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-24 03:13 by TeddyB1018.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
firebird
()
Date: May 24, 2013 03:48
Hmmm... 28313 for two shows at Staples Center, meaning capacity is 14156,5 
However, I looked up the capacity for concerts of the venues (source: Wikipedia):
venue / capacity / attendance
Staples Center / 20000 / 14156,5
Honda Center / 18325 / 13289,5
MGM Grand Garden / 16800 / 13327
Oracle Arena/ 20000 / 14133
HP Pavillion / 19190 / 12803
I don't know where Billboard got the numbers from, but I don't believe there were sellouts.
However, I looked up the capacity for concerts of the venues (source: Wikipedia):
venue / capacity / attendance
Staples Center / 20000 / 14156,5
Honda Center / 18325 / 13289,5
MGM Grand Garden / 16800 / 13327
Oracle Arena/ 20000 / 14133
HP Pavillion / 19190 / 12803
I don't know where Billboard got the numbers from, but I don't believe there were sellouts.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
triceratops
()
Date: May 24, 2013 05:25
Quote
treaclefingers
You may not be familiar with the term 'gross' as it is different from the word 'net'. Net is AFTER all expenses. GROSS is before.
The stones 'net' $80 million from the $86 million. They'll have their own expenses, but that's another discussion.
The rest I presume goes to AEG. As long has AEG has zero expenses, they net the $6 million.
If they have any expenses whatsoever, they're deducted from the remaining gross.
So, as this is a fairly highly risky venture I'd say their margins are probably pretty thin.
Ordinarily for a risky investment, you'd want a 'risk premium' to compensate you for the risk taken...I don't see much here, unless they're making a mint in merchandising and parking, as has been opined earlier in this thread.
Another factor for AEG to take this on is that producing a Stones tour helps their reputation. This is worth how many millions? Just saying...not an original thought from me.
How many people have produced a Stones tour since Bill Graham really got them into the large long lucrative tours? This is an exclusive club that AEG is now a member of
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-24 11:37 by triceratops.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
Thrylan
()
Date: May 24, 2013 06:58
If you move everyone down, and hang curtain.......PRESTO! SELLOUT!
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
TeddyB1018
()
Date: May 24, 2013 07:11
Quote
firebird
Hmmm... 28313 for two shows at Staples Center, meaning capacity is 14156,5
However, I looked up the capacity for concerts of the venues (source: Wikipedia):
venue / capacity / attendance
Staples Center / 20000 / 14156,5
Honda Center / 18325 / 13289,5
MGM Grand Garden / 16800 / 13327
Oracle Arena/ 20000 / 14133
HP Pavillion / 19190 / 12803
I don't know where Billboard got the numbers from, but I don't believe there were sellouts.
That's generally if every seat behind the stage was to be sold. Before big productions, bands used to do that. Not anymore. Wikipedia is not the right source for this particular information.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
Thrylan
()
Date: May 24, 2013 07:34
I can't speak for this tour, but on the NS tour, my buddy and I went to our section and were told we were moved because it had an obstrucyed view. When inside, the obstruction was a curtain hung in front out said section........PRESTO! SELLOUT! It happens.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
superglen
()
Date: May 24, 2013 12:16
Quote
firebird
I don't know where Billboard got the numbers from,
from the promoters!
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: May 24, 2013 12:29
Quote
treaclefingers
Well I'm not going to question the 'sellouts' but I would like to know whether they ended up selling every last ticket on day of show.
Seriously, there are always tickets left up to show time, are these tickets selling out then, or, how are they defining what a sellout is, ie is it 95% of tickets sold?
Something isn't quite right but it may be how they define a sellout, because I don't think all the tickets available are actually selling out.
Quite a few tickets were sold on the day of the show for both the 02 London concerts in November. I got front row right in the middle at 5pm for the 2nd night.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-24 12:30 by Silver Dagger.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: May 24, 2013 12:58
Quote
firebird
Hmmm... 28313 for two shows at Staples Center, meaning capacity is 14156,5
However, I looked up the capacity for concerts of the venues (source: Wikipedia):
venue / capacity / attendance
Staples Center / 20000 / 14156,5
Honda Center / 18325 / 13289,5
MGM Grand Garden / 16800 / 13327
Oracle Arena/ 20000 / 14133
HP Pavillion / 19190 / 12803
I don't know where Billboard got the numbers from, but I don't believe there were sellouts.
See my post at the top of the page, I did some research and found that Muse and The Who sold out the Oracle Arena with...11,500 seats, so if the Stone/AEG are cheating, these other guys are cheating even more ;-)
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: May 24, 2013 13:00
Quote
gotdablouseQuote
firebird
Hmmm... 28313 for two shows at Staples Center, meaning capacity is 14156,5
However, I looked up the capacity for concerts of the venues (source: Wikipedia):
venue / capacity / attendance
Staples Center / 20000 / 14156,5
Honda Center / 18325 / 13289,5
MGM Grand Garden / 16800 / 13327
Oracle Arena/ 20000 / 14133
HP Pavillion / 19190 / 12803
I don't know where Billboard got the numbers from, but I don't believe there were sellouts.
See my post at the top of the page, I did some research and found that Muse and The Who sold out the Oracle Arena with...11,500 seats, so if the Stone/AEG are cheating, these other guys are cheating even more ;-)
it depends of stage size and gear too. most places don't sell seats behind the stage
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
Limbostone
()
Date: May 24, 2013 13:50
All it probalby means is that those of us who spotted plenty of empty seats in some arenas did not spot unsold seats, but seats that the legal scalpers did not manage to sell through.
Even the venues themselves might be regarded as such, if they bought up the remaining seats off the promoter to sell at their ticket offices.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-24 13:51 by Limbostone.
Even the venues themselves might be regarded as such, if they bought up the remaining seats off the promoter to sell at their ticket offices.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-24 13:51 by Limbostone.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
ThatsWhatISay
()
Date: May 24, 2013 14:30
Quote
Limbostone
All it probalby means is that those of us who spotted plenty of empty seats in some arenas did not spot unsold seats, but seats that the legal scalpers did not manage to sell through.
Correct.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
firebird
()
Date: May 24, 2013 15:04
Quote
ThatsWhatISayQuote
Limbostone
All it probalby means is that those of us who spotted plenty of empty seats in some arenas did not spot unsold seats, but seats that the legal scalpers did not manage to sell through.
Correct.
Well I think it depends on how you define "sellout". If you define it like "every ticket printed has been sold" it is always a sellout cause tickets are printed on demand nowadays, not in advance like in the old days.
I have been to shows of the Bigger Bang tour where quite a few blocks were more than half empty (and I don't mean those behind the stage) and Billboard still reported sellouts.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-24 15:04 by firebird.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
CousinC
()
Date: May 24, 2013 17:56
Wow, Springsteen sold out that stadium near Stockholm 3 times (65.000 each)?!
Guess that's what you can do when asking reasonable prices.
Guess that's what you can do when asking reasonable prices.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: May 24, 2013 22:43
Quote
CousinC
Wow, Springsteen sold out that stadium near Stockholm 3 times (65.000 each)?!
Guess that's what you can do when asking reasonable prices.
yup
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
uhbuhgullayew
()
Date: May 24, 2013 22:54
Quote
CousinC
Wow, Springsteen sold out that stadium near Stockholm 3 times (65.000 each)?!
Guess that's what you can do when asking reasonable prices.
He's kicking himself for all the money he left on the table.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
Bungo
()
Date: May 24, 2013 23:22
The Friends Arena in Sweden holds over 164,000 punters? HOLY SH-T! I wonder what the bathroom situation was. HOLY CRAP!
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
FirstTimeSeattle81
()
Date: May 25, 2013 04:10
Quote
firebird
Hmmm... 28313 for two shows at Staples Center, meaning capacity is 14156,5
However, I looked up the capacity for concerts of the venues (source: Wikipedia):
venue / capacity / attendance
Staples Center / 20000 / 14156,5
Honda Center / 18325 / 13289,5
MGM Grand Garden / 16800 / 13327
Oracle Arena/ 20000 / 14133
HP Pavillion / 19190 / 12803
I don't know where Billboard got the numbers from, but I don't believe there were sellouts.
The seating capacity for the MGM Grand Garden is definitely not 16,800 for end stage setups, even counting 'behind stage' seating. It does max out at about that 13,327 number quoted. If you go the hotel's website and look for seating charts for Garden Arena shows, it will (weirdly) show you the tech spec version. Complete with color coded pricing mapping, seating capacity for the particular stage setup, and even available exits.
That said, I had a single $250 up in sec. 216, but moved down quick to sec. 16, row K, and had 4 vacant seats to myself. There were definitely a fair amount of empty seats in the lower bowl, as well as a big block at the back of the floor on the right side.
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
superglen
()
Date: May 25, 2013 20:05
Quote
Bungo
The Friends Arena in Sweden holds over 164,000 punters?
164.000 punters in 3 shows
Re: "50 and counting" Boxscore
Posted by:
Alfonz
()
Date: June 7, 2013 00:27
The Chicago shows are in:
Gross = $16,524,615
Total attendance = 43,763 (supposedly 3 sellouts)
Average attendance per show = 14,588
Average price per ticket = $378
Average gross per show = $5.5 million.
A bit of an improvement for all averages on the previous shows, but I actually thought they would do better in Chicago and gross a bit more. Still well behind the 2012 show averages for ticket price and gross.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-07 00:28 by Alfonz.
Gross = $16,524,615
Total attendance = 43,763 (supposedly 3 sellouts)
Average attendance per show = 14,588
Average price per ticket = $378
Average gross per show = $5.5 million.
A bit of an improvement for all averages on the previous shows, but I actually thought they would do better in Chicago and gross a bit more. Still well behind the 2012 show averages for ticket price and gross.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-07 00:28 by Alfonz.
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