About the two-song bit of Bill Wyman and the little fuss about it.

I read somewhere, maybe in Keith Richards’ unauthorized bio, that the Stones’ beat was totally screwed up during the fifteen first shows with Darryl Jones. They had to readapt because it was not clear who was going to follow who – book said DJ was trying to follow CW instead of KR, and it took time to carve the new sound.
So one of the reasons the Stones may have limited Bill Wyman’s contribution on stage last year is perhaps they did want to risk too many missed beats and to have to reinvent their rhythmic fashion again.
I prefer much more Wyman’s groove and sound. However, when I saw him during the two O2 gigs, his contribution was no crystal-clear because of the crowd cheering. Bass was loud, but hard to decipher. I had to listen to his part again on youtube.com and I would say it was something different and better. But again, to find again the genuine contribution of Wyman in the band, the other Stones would also have to readapt to their former pattern. And they will not do it, because it would take quite a few rehearsals to get back on their feet and their antic timing. Like Wyman says, it is difficult for old girl friends to get along again.

Could Bill Wyman's contribution jeopardize the music?

No.

They are professionals.

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GumbootCloggeroo
Could Bill Wyman's contribution jeopardize the music?

No.

They are professionals.

You sound sound, but it does not prove much. The Stones are professionals, but not in the sense of sidemen are.


[www.iorr.org]

The only thing the Stones do professionally is marketing...the music is karaoke at this point...flip the switch and there you go...

and I like your point Joker..two bass styles in one night could bring all but Charlie to a grinding halt...

No.

I am sentimental and think that the main reason why Bill's spot was limited to 2 songs is a mix of pride for what the band achieved with this "touring band", and a sign of respect and gratitude towards the same. In all bands there is a sense of camaraderie (no matter the status of hired gun of DJ).

Somehow it's like meeting your ex while you have a new woman: no matter if the ex is hot and your present lady is cold, it is ok to say hello but more is a lack of respect.

On the other hand Bill must have some kind of tangled personality (just see the different reactions to the 2012 concerts between him and MT).

C

Tangled personality? Perks can afford to speak the truth, or at least, express his emotional feelings. Which Taylor can't. That is why Taylor is easier for them to handle.

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Stoneage
Tangled personality? Perks can afford to speak the truth, or at least, express his emotional feelings. Which Taylor can't. That is why Taylor is easier for them to handle.

Perks is an annoying whiner. No one got along with him.

The band, MJ I'm sure, thought it would be a nice touch to invite him back in a 'tip-o-the-hat' kind of way....acknowledging him for his history with the band.

Bill wanted way more, which is fine but rather than join the band on the current tour and try to 'make good' he refuses the invitation and throws a bit of a public hissy fit about it.

Not cool...and yet, so like him.

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treaclefingers

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Stoneage
Tangled personality? Perks can afford to speak the truth, or at least, express his emotional feelings. Which Taylor can't. That is why Taylor is easier for them to handle.

Perks is an annoying whiner. No one got along with him.

The band, MJ I'm sure, thought it would be a nice touch to invite him back in a 'tip-o-the-hat' kind of way....acknowledging him for his history with the band.

Bill wanted way more, which is fine but rather than join the band on the current tour and try to 'make good' he refuses the invitation and throws a bit of a public hissy fit about it.

Not cool...and yet, so like him.

Would Perks settle for a guest spot with the whinos?

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treaclefingers

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Stoneage
Tangled personality? Perks can afford to speak the truth, or at least, express his emotional feelings. Which Taylor can't. That is why Taylor is easier for them to handle.

Perks is an annoying whiner. No one got along with him.

The band, MJ I'm sure, thought it would be a nice touch to invite him back in a 'tip-o-the-hat' kind of way....acknowledging him for his history with the band.

Bill wanted way more, which is fine but rather than join the band on the current tour and try to 'make good' he refuses the invitation and throws a bit of a public hissy fit about it.

Not cool...and yet, so like him.

hey! bill's cool...always the coolest stone. now cut it out.

Could Bill What? He is an original Stone, cooler than a Ice-bear...

Let Bill play the pre-1992 stuff and Darren play the other stuff.

Bill is a better bassist and as an actual Rolling Stone, he can play with authority and do what a bassist is supposed to do, drive the bus. DJ as a sideman plays along but exerts no authority on stage, leaving Keith and Woody to meander. All the other internal stuff boils down to punishment for quitting and the desire for a four way split instead of five. On the other side if Bill wants to return he should man up and say that rather than whatever it is he's saying. He's not in a strong position but he could get fans on his side if he'd be clear about the position he has a right to demand and what he'd expect in return.

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DoomandGloom
if Bill wants to return he should man up and say that rather than whatever it is he's saying. He's not in a strong position but he could get fans on his side if he'd be clear about the position he has a right to demand and what he'd expect in return.

He doesn't need to get the fans on his side, because he's still close friends with Charlie. If he wants to state his position, Charlie can present his views directly to Mick, rather than Bill airing grievances through the media, which will surely get him nowhere, because Mick would view such a tactic as being very un-English.

Besides, as a former member he has no right to demand anything, though he certainly has reason to expect a certain level of involvement--for instance, if not playing on more songs, then at least on songs in which his bass playing was a defining integral factor, such as 19th Nervous Breakdown and Paint It Black, rather than songs where he didn't even play on the original studio version, as he mentioned.

And what good would it do for him to get fans on his side? It's not like Mick Jagger makes his marketing decisions based on what fans post on IORR.

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Munichhilton

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treaclefingers

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Stoneage
Tangled personality? Perks can afford to speak the truth, or at least, express his emotional feelings. Which Taylor can't. That is why Taylor is easier for them to handle.

Perks is an annoying whiner. No one got along with him.

The band, MJ I'm sure, thought it would be a nice touch to invite him back in a 'tip-o-the-hat' kind of way....acknowledging him for his history with the band.

Bill wanted way more, which is fine but rather than join the band on the current tour and try to 'make good' he refuses the invitation and throws a bit of a public hissy fit about it.

Not cool...and yet, so like him.

Would Perks settle for a guest spot with the whinos?

whinos? Are we forming a band or something. Don't forget to invite StonesBITW!

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GRNRBITW

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treaclefingers

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Stoneage
Tangled personality? Perks can afford to speak the truth, or at least, express his emotional feelings. Which Taylor can't. That is why Taylor is easier for them to handle.

Perks is an annoying whiner. No one got along with him.

The band, MJ I'm sure, thought it would be a nice touch to invite him back in a 'tip-o-the-hat' kind of way....acknowledging him for his history with the band.

Bill wanted way more, which is fine but rather than join the band on the current tour and try to 'make good' he refuses the invitation and throws a bit of a public hissy fit about it.

Not cool...and yet, so like him.

hey! bill's cool...always the coolest stone. now cut it out.

I stand corrected. OK, I'm sitting down so got me on a technicality.

....Bill might be pissed 'cause they're not lettin'
him sell the Scrapbook at the Stones T-Shirt stall....



ROCKMAN

They seemed to weather 'In Another Land' reasonably well...I think they'll be fine.

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stonehearted

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DoomandGloom
if Bill wants to return he should man up and say that rather than whatever it is he's saying. He's not in a strong position but he could get fans on his side if he'd be clear about the position he has a right to demand and what he'd expect in return.

He doesn't need to get the fans on his side, because he's still close friends with Charlie. If he wants to state his position, Charlie can present his views directly to Mick, rather than Bill airing grievances through the media, which will surely get him nowhere, because Mick would view such a tactic as being very un-English.

Besides, as a former member he has no right to demand anything, though he certainly has reason to expect a certain level of involvement--for instance, if not playing on more songs, then at least on songs in which his bass playing was a defining integral factor, such as 19th Nervous Breakdown and Paint It Black, rather than songs where he didn't even play on the original studio version, as he mentioned.

And what good would it do for him to get fans on his side? It's not like Mick Jagger makes his marketing decisions based on what fans post on IORR.

So is that happening? Bill asking Charlie to lobby for him?

I've played in many bands over the years. When sitting in, someone will say "follow me" and away you go.

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DoomandGloom

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stonehearted

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DoomandGloom
if Bill wants to return he should man up and say that rather than whatever it is he's saying. He's not in a strong position but he could get fans on his side if he'd be clear about the position he has a right to demand and what he'd expect in return.

He doesn't need to get the fans on his side, because he's still close friends with Charlie. If he wants to state his position, Charlie can present his views directly to Mick, rather than Bill airing grievances through the media, which will surely get him nowhere, because Mick would view such a tactic as being very un-English.

Besides, as a former member he has no right to demand anything, though he certainly has reason to expect a certain level of involvement--for instance, if not playing on more songs, then at least on songs in which his bass playing was a defining integral factor, such as 19th Nervous Breakdown and Paint It Black, rather than songs where he didn't even play on the original studio version, as he mentioned.

And what good would it do for him to get fans on his side? It's not like Mick Jagger makes his marketing decisions based on what fans post on IORR.

So is that happening? Bill asking Charlie to lobby for him?

No, I didn't mean to imply that it is happening, but that Charlie is the most direct--and diplomatic--line of communication to Mick, and Keith as well. That is, if he wished to, but it appears he is as through with them as they are with him.

Maybe Dick Taylor has some free time

I'm reminded how the bass comes in "delayed" in SATISFACTION—don't know the technical term—and Bill has said that during more than one rehearsal he'd play the bass "late"—as in the studio recording—and Keith would get angry at Bill for not directly following him, and Bill would say Keith was wrong, and Keith would say, "I wrote the song!" and Bill would keep up his argument until Keith would realize Bill was right and tell him to continue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-04-05 09:45 by Title5Take1.

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stonehearted
It's not like Mick Jagger makes his marketing decisions based on what fans post on IORR.

I am not so sure about that. As it has been proven again and again, the Stones actually did some things on the last mini-tour which had been proposed for a very long time on this board:

- bring Mick Taylor and Bill Wyman back
- choir on YCAGWYW
- performing Lady Jane
- only offer a few concerts on three locations

As a very intelligent businessman Mick Jagger would just be foolish to ignore this important board, missing very good ideas.

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saltoftheearth

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stonehearted
It's not like Mick Jagger makes his marketing decisions based on what fans post on IORR.

I am not so sure about that. As it has been proven again and again, the Stones actually did some things on the last mini-tour which had been proposed for a very long time on this board:

- bring Mick Taylor and Bill Wyman back
- choir on YCAGWYW
- performing Lady Jane
- only offer a few concerts on three locations

As a very intelligent businessman Mick Jagger would just be foolish to ignore this important board, missing very good ideas.

Are you sure you're not MightyStonesStillRollin50 and etc.?

By the way, what's your opinion on the Sons of Beatles tour?....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-04-06 01:10 by stonehearted.

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jazzbass
I've played in many bands over the years. When sitting in, someone will say "follow me" and away you go.

off to the pub, you mean?

every thing that mj does is well thought out and very CALCULATED.

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Title5Take1
I'm reminded how the bass comes in "delayed" in SATISFACTION—don't know the technical term—and Bill has said that during more than one rehearsal he'd play the bass "late"—as in the studio recording—and Keith would get angry at Bill for not directly following him, and Bill would say Keith was wrong, and Keith would say, "I wrote the song!" and Bill would keep up his argument until Keith would realize Bill was right and tell him to continue.

If the song was Jumpin' Jack Flash, though, Keith would have said "I wrote the song!" and Bill would have countered "No, I wrote the song".

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TheGreek
every thing that mj does is well thought out and very CALCULATED.

like allowing himself to be seen naked by keith?

Bill screwed up in 1993. At that time it didn't seem like such a dumb move...I mean what other band lasted that long at that time...and he was the oldest member. Was it that silly to assume the stones would only last another 4-5 years max anyway? I would've never guessed they would have so many big money tours post 1989-1990. If he did it all over again he likely stays through 2003 or so and then quits. But after a 20 year absence you can't just re appear and make demands...bill can be a bit too lordly at times. He chided the stones for not giving him support when the whole mandy thing was blowing up in the media...well gosh bill maybe it's because none of them wanted to go near that scandal with a 50 ft pole...for good reason

It was likely Keith that asked Bill back for the reunion shows. I doubt Mick cared much at this stage, but Keith has said things ("I lost my rhythm section when he left") that indicated he was the catalyst of Bills guest spots



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-04-05 22:12 by chop.