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stonehearted

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tomk

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stonehearted

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Mathijs
I am shocked people really feel he belongs in jail. He is a mental patient, diagnosed with acute schizophrenia, of which to date he has not recovered. He should be treated as a patient, not as a criminal.

Mathijs

When you are diagnosed with an illness you can be considered insane and treated as a patient, but when you commit a criminal act such as murder in this condition then you can be considered criminally insane, and therefore a danger to others.

Don't worry. The wonderful government of the state of California is coming to the rescue. According to a recent article, instead of treating the mentally ill with the medicines they need, they now are teaching them yoga. I kid you not. You can't make this stuff up.
Sad story, really.
He was the drummer on most of All Things Must Pass.

Really! Didn't know that. Great drum sound on that album. With Gordon playing drums in Derek and the Dominoes and with Eric jamming with George, it's only natural that he would have referred a good drummer for him for the sessions.

Yeah, the basic band is Derek/Dominoes, Klaus Voorman, Preston, Gary Brooker, that whole Delaney/Bonnie crowd (Bobby Keyes, Jim Price), Ringo, on a few tracks, plus a few extras, thanks to Phil Spector. Who is on each track gets a spotty, though.

Was one of the great rock drummers and absolutely a tragedy. Check out his discography -- unbelievable the records he played on. I never realized this much sampled track was him:




Apache

He was not able to use the insanity defense, even Criminally Insane. If he was he would have spent time in a psych facility and gotten treatment and been eligible for parole. If he is receiving treatment, such as meds and therapy, he would be no danger to himself or society. This is a tragic case, and doesn't make sense. Yes, he killed his mother, and that is shocking, horrific and terrible. But he was not in control, schizophrenia is a terribly deliberating condition that takes control of the mind. But with treatment and meds schizophrenics can lead normal productive lives. Not all schizophrenics are in jails! Nor should they be.

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whitem8
He was not able to use the insanity defense, even Criminally Insane. If he was he would have spent time in a psych facility and gotten treatment and been eligible for parole. If he is receiving treatment, such as meds and therapy, he would be no danger to himself or society. This is a tragic case, and doesn't make sense. Yes, he killed his mother, and that is shocking, horrific and terrible. But he was not in control, schizophrenia is a terribly deliberating condition that takes control of the mind. But with treatment and meds schizophrenics can lead normal productive lives. Not all schizophrenics are in jails! Nor should they be.

I couldn't have said better. I understand he can't get treatment because treatment is only for people eligible for parole, which Gordon isn’t.

Drink and drugs made his condition worse, but his illness is genetically induced and therefore he is not a criminal but a patient and should be treated as such.

Mathijs

From what I understand through reading about his case is for many years he wasn't aware he was schizophrenic, which is often the case. And yes, drinking and drugs made his condition much worse, and as is often the case, when someone has a mental illness they self medicate, through drugs and drinking. For schizophrenics, this makes the condition worse. Many of his actions, people attributed to him being and ass, a mean person, and a drug addict, which is all true, but also he was mentally ill! Which made this even worse. Rock stars, for the most part, during the 60s and 70s were not searching for therapy and very few people, other than those so ill it was evident, sought out therapy. Watch A Beautiful Mind for an intriguing glimpse into the mind of a schizophrenic. I have worked with schizophrenics and it is indeed a sad and debilitating disease. Keeping Jim Gordon in prison where he is not adequately treated is not a sane justice system. It is criminally incompetent and inhumane.

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whitem8
From what I understand through reading about his case is for many years he wasn't aware he was schizophrenic, which is often the case. And yes, drinking and drugs made his condition much worse, and as is often the case, when someone has a mental illness they self medicate, through drugs and drinking. For schizophrenics, this makes the condition worse. Many of his actions, people attributed to him being and ass, a mean person, and a drug addict, which is all true, but also he was mentally ill! Which made this even worse. Rock stars, for the most part, during the 60s and 70s were not searching for therapy and very few people, other than those so ill it was evident, sought out therapy. Watch A Beautiful Mind for an intriguing glimpse into the mind of a schizophrenic. I have worked with schizophrenics and it is indeed a sad and debilitating disease. Keeping Jim Gordon in prison where he is not adequately treated is not a sane justice system. It is criminally incompetent and inhumane.

From the article posted before, he is being medically treated,
probably not to your liking, but treated nonetheless.
Where do you suggest Mr. Gordon be?

He should be in a secure psych unit for the criminally ill, which is a secure lock down unit, with visiting privileges. Then he would be treated not only with meds, but regularly evaluated by a team of psychiatrists and eligible for parole when the team deems that he has been adequately treated and is not a danger to himself or society. Upon release he would have to have regular meetings with his parole officer and a psychiatrists to verify he is continuing his treatment regiment, and that his treatment regiment is adequately treating his disease.
What is interesting is that according to Wiki he is: "According to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation's website (http://www.cdcr.ca.gov), as of March 2013, James Beck Gordon, prisoner #C89262, age 67, admission date 13 July 1984, is still serving his sentence at the California Medical Facility, a specialist medical and psychiatric prison in Vacaville, California." So there seems to be some contradictions between what we are reading. If he is in a Medical Facility he should be getting good care, but I think what has happened is that his original plea did not entitle him to be paroled, which means even if he is treated successfully and found sane, he cannot be released. Which does not make sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-26 11:23 by whitem8.

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whitem8
He should be in a secure psych unit for the criminally ill, which is a secure lock down unit, with visiting privileges. Then he would be treated not only with meds, but regularly evaluated by a team of psychiatrists and eligible for parole when the team deems that he has been adequately treated and is not a danger to himself or society. Upon release he would have to have regular meetings with his parole officer and a psychiatrists to verify he is continuing his treatment regiment, and that his treatment regiment is adequately treating his disease.
What is interesting is that according to Wiki he is: "According to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation's website (http://www.cdcr.ca.gov), as of March 2013, James Beck Gordon, prisoner #C89262, age 67, admission date 13 July 1984, is still serving his sentence at the California Medical Facility, a specialist medical and psychiatric prison in Vacaville, California." So there seems to be some contradictions between what we are reading. If he is in a Medical Facility he should be getting good care, but I think what has happened is that his original plea did not entitle him to be paroled, which means even if he is treated successfully and found sane, he cannot be released. Which does not make sense.

I understand from an early 2000's article he is not treated at all. In the facility he is now all they do is give suppressing medication, which Gordon stopped taking because he simply felt unconscious throughout the day. No other treatment is given, as he is not eligible for parole.

In The Netherlands we have a TBS system, where you're not an inmate but a mentally ill person being treated in order to go back into society one day. If that's not possible, there is a longstay department, where you are basically living a quiet live on your own in an appertment, and work, sports and whatever are provided throughout the day. You have as many visits as you want, the only thing is that you can not leave.

Mathijs

Ok, thanks Mathijs, so it seems what while he is in a "medical" facility he isn't adequately being treated. Now, it is important to consider also, that one of the primary struggles that acute schizophrenics face is the difficulty of continuing the meds. Depending on the dose and severity of the psychosis, the meds do often cause severe sedation, and also a abstract disconnect from your surroundings. This often frustrates the patient, and also the voices stop! And the patient often thinks, "I am cured! I don't like the side effects, and don't need the meds..." then they go off their meds and the same vicious cycle continues. But there also newer meds that show promise with fewer side effects.
Mathijs, your country's approach to treating mental illness is a sane and compassionate consideration of a genetic illness that is not of choice. Thanks for providing that bit of perspective.

Myself, as a professional drummer I have to say Gordon was an amazing musician & has left an immense musical legacy behind him. As I say about other amazing players, "there's a reason some musicians have played on so many records!". It's sad & tragic how his story ended for him, so-to-speak.

He wrote the beautiful end section of Layla (his name is on the credit) & still receives royalties for it to this day. I read some where a few years back that (Google it if ya can), besides the brutal manner of his crimes his case wasn't helped by the fact that he kept a vendetta for Clapton all those years. Prison staff found notes he had hidden in his cell about murdering Clapton and so on. Further I also read (I think in a dummer mag with a feature on Gordon) that in 1993 he was watching the Grammys and saw Eric get take home the Grammy for the unplugged version of Layla. Gordon apparently freaked out and trashed his cell in a fit of rage. A bit of Google searching should clear up those claims.

Again, amazing player. Sad about his mental state.

Found this (Highlights from the July 3, 1994 Washington Post article) :


Jim Gordon is prisoner C89262 in the California Men's Colony at San Luis Obispo. He killed his mother on June 3, 1983, by pounding her head with a hammer, then finishing the job with three plunges of a butcher knife into the ribs. He says "You know, I heard the new version of 'Layla' on the radio and I was real surprised. And then I was informed that it was nominated for a Grammy and I was real surprised." Gordon did not petition the prison officials for permission to attend the ceremony, and regarding that said "I watched the show, and when my name was announced, well, I didn't hear it. I'd stepped out of the room. But the other guys said, 'Well, you won.'" Concerning the isolation from the rest of the music industry, Gordon said "When the crime happened, they all just turned their backs on me. I don't blame 'em, to tell you the truth. Whatever was taking me down that road, I was on a path of self-destruction and it was nothing that any reputable studio musician or artist would want to be connected with. Because it was kind of a hopeless situation." Apparently Gordon believes that he didn't commit the crime, but rather that the crime "happened" and says "When I remember the crime, it's kind of like a dream. I can remember going through what happened in that space and time, and it seems kind of detached, like I was going through it on some other plane. It didn't seem real." According to police reports, when they found him he feared that the person who killed his mother might come for him too, and in the police car he sobbed "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but she's tortured me for years." He was pretty consistently known as an All-American type, with Frank Zappa even nicknaming him "Skippy." Gordon did admit that Speedballs were commonplace on the 1971 Joe Cocker "Mad Dogs and Englishmen" tour, when he claims he was dating Rita Coolidge. A journalist who wrote a never released book on Gordon says he once showed her a letter from Gordon's father written in 1969 urging him to get psychiatric help. However, the letter apparently made no references to the voices that Gordon heard. The most powerful voice was that of his mother. The voice would deny him food, with Gordon starving himself for days and then hiding in a motel to eat fried chicken. The voice also caused him pain, denied him sleep and relaxation, caused him to be sullen and incommunicative with the occasional violent outburst, and, finally, refused to let him play drums. He says "My mother, she persecuted me a great deal, I felt. And it finally got so bad that I just gave up and got a condominium and just stayed indoors. I didn't ever go anyplace. That's when I started hearing voices, and having delusional thoughts and hallucations, and all of a sudden the crime occurred." Predictably, his work dwindled to nothing. In 1977, he began a series of aborted hospital stays. His last work was in 1979 when he got a gig with Paul Anka in Las Vegas. A few bars into the opening song, he walked off stage, unable to play. Today, he says he no longer hears the voices. He says he is on two medications, Navane for acute paranoid schizophrenia, and another one for depression, which Gordon says stems from prison life. Talking about the crime, he says "I was in a real strange place then. What I was imagining and what was real -- I still don't know the answer to that...but something always confronted me and didn't allow me to go along the lines I wanted to go along. And well, it just ruined my life." His lawyer says "[Gordon] truly believed he was acting in self-defense," and calls him "the most tragic case of my career." Gordon had a well-documented history of mental problems and a firm diagnosis of acute schizophrenia, yet was found guilty of second degree murder due to a then-recent change in California law severely restricting the insanity defense. He had made statements right after the crime admitting it ws wrong to kill. So, in May 1984, the court sentenced him to 16 years to life. Most of his time has been at Atascadero State Hospital. Parole has been denied him twice. His finances are in good shape, in spite of all this, due to royalties from Layla and other Dominos work, work with Traffic, and work with George Harrison, among other things. Finally, he says "As far as getting back to anything I was doing before 1981, it's pretty grim. Unless -- what I'd like to do is get in some kind of touring situation, maybe contribute a little bit with my writing." As a meek afterthought, he adds "I'd still like to play with Eric."

I had no idea that was Gordon on the piano coda in Layla.
Wow. Such a beautiful, elegiac peice from such a troubled mind.
I don't think I'll ever listen to it the same again without a tinge of sadness.

I've seen print that gives Bobby Whitlock the credit for the piano coda at the end of "Layla" but it is indeed Jim Gordon as others have mentioned.


He was a tremendous drummer. Clapton himself says that the Carl Radle/Jim Gordon rhythm section was his favorite. I think he went on to say something like "when people say Jim Gordon was the greatest rock drummer that ever lived, I agree". Or something. It's in Clapton's autobiography.

Parole denied. He can apply again in 2018.

Jim Gordon is severely schizophrenic and actually has been housed in the prison mental hospital for 20 plus years and is heavily medicated but functional. The story is that that he had hallucinations many taking the form of his mothers voice which would overcome his ability to function. He killed his mother in hopes of releasing his mothers control of his mind. A very sick dude to say the least and his lawyer said it was the most heart wrenching case he ever handled as California had at the time of the murder changed the law to make it extremely difficult to plead insanity which Gordon obviously was mentally ill. He hasn't touched the drums in 35 years so even if he did get out don't look for him to be touring any time soon. If there is a bright spot he has millions in the bank according via his agent especially after Clapton's Unplugged release of Layla which he co-wrote and got a Grammy as well. Sad story but agree a fantastic drummer. Check out the song Apostrophe with Zappa and Jack Bruce.

its sad but when someone is that far gone you cant bring them back.

the problem is they are so freakin nuts that if they go off their meds you end up with another dead body and the parole board has to explain why they let a known murderer back out on the streets.

only about 5% of schizos are dangerous but when they go off it usually ends up on the news.

i'm suprised he's locked up in california though,in cali a schizo with only one kill is just considered misunderstood.i'm suprised he wasnt given counseling and a strict diet to follow.