sorry if posted before:

What was Brian Jones doing when this was filmed?

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DiscoVolante
What was Brian Jones doing when this was filmed?

Brian was suffering from various addictions at this time. If I recall correctly, some of the scenes with Brian were left on the cutting room floor.

Too many clingons... Checkout how many people are there in the studio while they are trying to figure something out. Impossible!

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Cocaine Eyes

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DiscoVolante
What was Brian Jones doing when this was filmed?

Brian was suffering from various addictions at this time. If I recall correctly, some of the scenes with Brian were left on the cutting room floor.

A lot of scenes with the whole band were left out.

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DiscoVolante
What was Brian Jones doing when this was filmed?

None of us know.

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His Majesty

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Cocaine Eyes

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DiscoVolante
What was Brian Jones doing when this was filmed?

Brian was suffering from various addictions at this time. If I recall correctly, some of the scenes with Brian were left on the cutting room floor.

A lot of scenes with the whole band were left out.

Yes, of course that's true. And really, the only who knows what Brian was doing is/was Brian!!

I was merely suggesting what I know about the making of the film.

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Cocaine Eyes

I was merely suggesting what I know about the making of the film.

No one that I am aware of that was involved with the film has said scenes were cut due to Brian.

Perhaps Jean-Luc Godard knew?



It's not worth arguing about.......I'm certain you're right!!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-13 20:30 by Cocaine Eyes.

It seems that Bill,during the 2012 London shows, plays the same bass guitar that he plays in that clip. Is it the bass he put together himself?
Rock and roll,
Mops

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rollmops
It seems that Bill,during the 2012 London shows, plays the same bass guitar that he plays in that clip. Is it the bass he put together himself?
Rock and roll,
Mops

Bill played a new modern take on that bass at thew 02. [www.basscentre.com]

The original, which hangs on the wall of Sticky Fingers, is a modified Dallas Tuxedo bass.

Perhaps Brian popped down the pub or to a newsagent buy a packet of cigarettes? There are a million reasons as to why he may have not been present. It doesn't have to be controversial or involve an inability to participate due to drug-abuse of drunkenness.

Please. Brian is barely participating by this point. His appearances were spotty and he would have to try to get up to speed when he did appear. This is their 'quartet' period when they learned to get along without him out of necessity.

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24FPS
Please. Brian is barely participating by this point. His appearances were spotty and he would have to try to get up to speed when he did appear. This is their 'quartet' period when they learned to get along without him out of necessity.

All we know is he isn't in this section of the film. The rest you are just assuming based on quotes which don't actually relate to this specific evening.

He plays on 8 or so tracks from Beggars Banquet.

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His Majesty

All we know is he isn't in this section of the film. The rest you are just assuming based on quotes which don't actually relate to this specific evening.

He plays on 8 or so tracks from Beggars Banquet.

Exactly - During that clip he'd probably popped out for a swift-one down the Dog and Duck with his cool mates

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Big Al
Perhaps Brian popped down the pub or to a newsagent buy a packet of cigarettes? There are a million reasons as to why he may have not been present. It doesn't have to be controversial or involve an inability to participate due to drug-abuse of drunkenness.

Except for the fact that pubs closed at 10 p.m. in those days, and if you check the clock on the wall when the camera angle is right, you can see that they did the Beggar's session overnight during the wee hours. The only thing that was open during these sessions was the studio loo.

Mick Jagger especially knew that they needed to do something big after Satanic Majesties to recover their rock n roll credibility, and Beggar's was an album over which Mick and Keith took complete control, even relegating Bill to an uninspired slot in the isolation booth as a percussionist.

It was no longer a matter of group input like in the old days. Beggar's Banquet was the first of the "Mick and Keith" albums, the first in a long series.

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stonehearted

Except for the fact that pubs closed at 10 p.m. in those days

Oh how awful that must have been! I understand that public houses also used to close for a while in the afternoon, too. Hard times.

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stonehearted

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Big Al
Perhaps Brian popped down the pub or to a newsagent buy a packet of cigarettes? There are a million reasons as to why he may have not been present. It doesn't have to be controversial or involve an inability to participate due to drug-abuse of drunkenness.

Except for the fact that pubs closed at 10 p.m. in those days, and if you check the clock on the wall when the camera angle is right, you can see that they did the Beggar's session overnight during the wee hours. The only thing that was open during these sessions was the studio loo.

Mick Jagger especially knew that they needed to do something big after Satanic Majesties to recover their rock n roll credibility, and Beggar's was an album over which Mick and Keith took complete control, even relegating Bill to an uninspired slot in the isolation booth as a percussionist.

It was no longer a matter of group input like in the old days. Beggar's Banquet was the first of the "Mick and Keith" albums, the first in a long series.

I utterly adore your intelligence, astute checking about, your knowledge of the Stones no matter which year/era and frankness. Really, I mean that! I admire your always intellingently written posts.

It's for these reasons I thought you were an insider.

I suppose I ruffled some feathers when I posted about what Brian might have been doing.

I think he was in court around the time of these sessions so perhaps that's the reason he wasn't in that jam?

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His Majesty

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24FPS
Please. Brian is barely participating by this point. His appearances were spotty and he would have to try to get up to speed when he did appear. This is their 'quartet' period when they learned to get along without him out of necessity.

All we know is he isn't in this section of the film. The rest you are just assuming based on quotes which don't actually relate to this specific evening.

He plays on 8 or so tracks from Beggars Banquet.

He might have added touches here and there to songs. But the only thing Mick remembers him sitting down and working out with the rest of the group was No Expectations.

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DGA35
I think he was in court around the time of these sessions so perhaps that's the reason he wasn't in that jam?

The Beggar's Banquet sessions were done usually from 10 p.m. to 4 a.m., so courts would not have been in session during those hours, but I get your point, at least I think I do, that he may have had too much weighing on his mind to concentrate on music.

But I think there might have been one or two other factors. If I were to place myself in Brian's position, I could immediately think of two things that would make me lose interest in showing up for sessions with the enthusiasm that one's presence would have required to be productive. First, Brian was the founder member. Listen to Bill Wyman, he'll tell you. He formed the band, he named it. Before they were under professional management, it was Brian writing the letters to get them auditions and phoning clubs to get them gigs. And Brian was a significant contributing musical force in the early days: that groundbreaking electric slide on I Wanna Be Your Man, and that hypnotic hook running through their first #1 song Little Red Rooster--would LRR have been #1 without that slide guitar? Perhaps not. Then his distinguishing presence on such tracks as Lady Jane, Paint It Black, and Ruby Tuesday. But by the time of Beggar's Banquet, his adventurous ideas are no longer being accepted and he is being reduced to merely being told what to play and how much and when. He is not making music any longer; instead, he is merely taking musical direction. Such a role is OK if you are Bill Wyman or Charlie Watts, but not if you are Brian Jones.

Another factor is Anita. Even Brian's parents knew that Anita was the only woman he ever really loved. And to have had your fellow bandmate and guitar foil having run off with her was bad enough, but if you watch toward the end of the film when they are doing the SFTD vocal overdubs, the "Hoo-Hoo", you see Anita there as one of the contributing backing vocalists. It might have made it easier for Brian to have been present if she had not been there in the studio, as an extra reminder that he could not escape the painful reminder of her presence even in the fraternal confines of the recording studio.

I believe these were the main reasons why, by 1968, Brian's heart was no longer in what had become Mick and Keith's Rolling Stones.

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Cocaine Eyes


I suppose I ruffled some feathers when I posted about what Brian might have been doing.

No ruffled feathers, just pointing out that there doesn't seem to be any quotes from the people involved in making the film stating that scene were cut out because of Brian and that none of us know whay he isn't in this scene.

He's in two other day's scenes and isn't stoned out of his mind or sleeping on the floor in a corner etc.

For all we know he might be in the control room in the scene wehere we do not see him, taking a long dump in the toilet, speaking to fans that loyally hung around outside day and night.

He was involved with the woman you see in the untitled jam scene behind a screen tapping along on the top of a piano, so perhaps that is a sign that he was actually there or had been there or was on his way. Maybe he had a meeting with his solicitors the next day and was being a good boy and sleeping early the night before.

We just don't know!

There doesn't have to be a deep or on his way to the grave explanation for why he isn't in the scene.

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24FPS

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His Majesty

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24FPS
Please. Brian is barely participating by this point. His appearances were spotty and he would have to try to get up to speed when he did appear. This is their 'quartet' period when they learned to get along without him out of necessity.

All we know is he isn't in this section of the film. The rest you are just assuming based on quotes which don't actually relate to this specific evening.

He plays on 8 or so tracks from Beggars Banquet.

He might have added touches here and there to songs. But the only thing Mick remembers him sitting down and working out with the rest of the group was No Expectations.

He say's it's the last time he remembers Brian being Brian the contributing musician.

Which doesn't mean it didn't happen again, it's just the last time Mick actually remembers it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-14 11:52 by His Majesty.

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stonehearted

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Big Al
Perhaps Brian popped down the pub or to a newsagent buy a packet of cigarettes? There are a million reasons as to why he may have not been present. It doesn't have to be controversial or involve an inability to participate due to drug-abuse of drunkenness.

Except for the fact that pubs closed at 10 p.m. in those days, and if you check the clock on the wall when the camera angle is right, you can see that they did the Beggar's session overnight during the wee hours. The only thing that was open during these sessions was the studio loo.

There were after hours clubs.

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stonehearted

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DGA35
I think he was in court around the time of these sessions so perhaps that's the reason he wasn't in that jam?

The Beggar's Banquet sessions were done usually from 10 p.m. to 4 a.m., so courts would not have been in session during those hours, but I get your point, at least I think I do, that he may have had too much weighing on his mind to concentrate on music.

But I think there might have been one or two other factors. If I were to place myself in Brian's position, I could immediately think of two things that would make me lose interest in showing up for sessions with the enthusiasm that one's presence would have required to be productive. First, Brian was the founder member. Listen to Bill Wyman, he'll tell you. He formed the band, he named it. Before they were under professional management, it was Brian writing the letters to get them auditions and phoning clubs to get them gigs. And Brian was a significant contributing musical force in the early days: that groundbreaking electric slide on I Wanna Be Your Man, and that hypnotic hook running through their first #1 song Little Red Rooster--would LRR have been #1 without that slide guitar? Perhaps not. Then his distinguishing presence on such tracks as Lady Jane, Paint It Black, and Ruby Tuesday. But by the time of Beggar's Banquet, his adventurous ideas are no longer being accepted and he is being reduced to merely being told what to play and how much and when. He is not making music any longer; instead, he is merely taking musical direction. Such a role is OK if you are Bill Wyman or Charlie Watts, but not if you are Brian Jones.

Another factor is Anita. Even Brian's parents knew that Anita was the only woman he ever really loved. And to have had your fellow bandmate and guitar foil having run off with her was bad enough, but if you watch toward the end of the film when they are doing the SFTD vocal overdubs, the "Hoo-Hoo", you see Anita there as one of the contributing backing vocalists. It might have made it easier for Brian to have been present if she had not been there in the studio, as an extra reminder that he could not escape the painful reminder of her presence even in the fraternal confines of the recording studio.

I believe these were the main reasons why, by 1968, Brian's heart was no longer in what had become Mick and Keith's Rolling Stones.

Again, I agree with you. Brian truly founded the Rollin' Stones and wrote all of those letters on behalf of the band. I actually have copies of some of those letters. I love the way Brian always signs with "Yours faithfully".

And of course, there's the Anita factor.

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stonehearted
But by the time of Beggar's Banquet, his adventurous ideas are no longer being accepted and he is being reduced to merely being told what to play and how much and when. He is not making music any longer; instead, he is merely taking musical direction. Such a role is OK if you are Bill Wyman or Charlie Watts, but not if you are Brian Jones.

This is true and something that is very overlooked when talking abput Brian. The new order. No more "arranged by the Rolling Stones". AFAIK Brian had been managed to stay pretty clean from drugs during the first half of 68 and was very exciting about JJF. He is supposed to have liked the new direction but lost interest when he discovered the new order in the studio and that his musical ideas were ignored.

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His Majesty

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stonehearted

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Big Al
Perhaps Brian popped down the pub or to a newsagent buy a packet of cigarettes? There are a million reasons as to why he may have not been present. It doesn't have to be controversial or involve an inability to participate due to drug-abuse of drunkenness.

Except for the fact that pubs closed at 10 p.m. in those days, and if you check the clock on the wall when the camera angle is right, you can see that they did the Beggar's session overnight during the wee hours. The only thing that was open during these sessions was the studio loo.

There were after hours clubs.

True, there was the Speakeasy, where the big names of the day like Lennon and Jones et al. would hang out and hold court, but there might also have been music journalists there as well, and with Brian already receiving unfavorable press as a result of a recent drug bust, it would be unlikely that he would risk further write-ups concerning tales of public drinking. And after having drunk his quota in the pub, he would still have needed to drive himself home and further risk bad press if he were pulled over in the process. Also, if Brian had spent his time in after-hours clubs during the string of dates coinciding with the recording of Beggar's Banquet, then surely even the most pedestrian of rock biographers would have connected those dots by now.

No matter, though. The fact that he was hardly present at all for the Let It Bleed sessions shows that disillusionment was setting in with the Beggar's Banquet sessions, during which the increasing frequency of his absence is made clear by the film One By One, where he is present and heard to be playing guitar in the beginning while working out ideas with Mick, is shown off to the side in a cubicle in the middle of the film strumming guitar that is inaudible to the film's viewer [likely turned down per Mick and Keith, without informing Brian], and is not shown at all in the last part of the film--as if a parable outlining the pattern of his gradual marginalization and eventual departure from The Stones between 1968 and 1969.