Once again, when I listen to a Stones track and like the bass, i find out it's not Bill playing. This time it was "Some girls" and Keith is playing. Last week it was "Fingerprint file" and Mick Taylor playing bass. Other times it's been Ronnie.
Is this Stones secret weapon and there the true Stones groove come from?
Is there anyone else who found out this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-09 20:12 by talkcheap.

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talkcheap
Once again, when I listen to a Stones track and like the bass, i find out it's not Bill playing. This time it was "Some girls" and Keith is playing. Last week it was "Fingerprint file" and Mick Taylor playing bass. Other times it's been Ronnie.
I this Stones secret weapon and there the true Stones groove come from?
Is there anyone else who found out this?

you forgot about charlie...his bass drum playing is a secret weapon, too.

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StonesTod

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talkcheap
Once again, when I listen to a Stones track and like the bass, i find out it's not Bill playing. This time it was "Some girls" and Keith is playing. Last week it was "Fingerprint file" and Mick Taylor playing bass. Other times it's been Ronnie.
I this Stones secret weapon and there the true Stones groove come from?
Is there anyone else who found out this?

you forgot about charlie...his bass drum playing is a secret weapon, too.

You are right. Especially when they play live. Charlies drum sound surprised me the first time I heard the Stones playing. It carried the show.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-09 20:41 by talkcheap.

There are some great bass parts that Bill did not play on record but his contributions have also been great. I mean 19th Nervous Breakdown alone is just awesome. Generally it's thought that Bill was replaced on tracks because he was not always available for the crazy schedule the band kept while recording. When he did not appear on a song he took it to heart and usually raised it a notch live. It's Only R & R for example features Willie Weeks on bass yet it was chosen for Bill last month. Strange choice but Wyman always rises above and carried the band away from train wrecks for decades. Don't let time tarnish his greatness.

I listened to the live dvd "Some girls, live in Texas" from 78 the other day. Bill plays great bass the whole show and he is not mixed down. You hear him loud and well. Great playing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-09 20:44 by talkcheap.

I suppose you could say that others have risen to the occassion on individual cuts as far as the bass part goes. Keith was fantastic on Sympathy, JJF, and Happy. Sympathy is the only cut where I think Bill just couldn't get that mad samba. JJF & Happy are done in the Bill Wyman/Stones style.

Ronnie's standout bass moment was Emotional Rescue. I don't know why they chose Ronnie, when Bill had just knocked the world out with his bass on the Miss You single. Ronnie never again rose to make a bass part that mattered on a Stones single.

Mick Taylor had his moments with Tumbling Dice and Fingerprint File, even though I think Bill claims to be on the Tumbling Dice single. On Fingerprint File Bill does contribute the synthesizer, which he also performed on the 1975 tour. And don't forget his credited organ playing on Jumping Jack Flash.

Face it. Even though it may not be Bill playing (during the classic years) on a cut, except for a very few instances, the bass line is in the Wyman style. I pay close attention to how Bill played things live that he didn't play on the studio cut and he has never let me down. He could play the bass part to Happy in his sleep.

And the fact that people actually listen to what the bassist is playing on a song is testament to Bill's talent. Hardly anyone listens to Darryl Jones and thinks, Oh Yeah, that's much better.

I like Bill's work on Rip This Joint and All Down The Line

Hardly anyone listens to Darryl Jones and thinks, Oh Yeah, that's much better.

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talkcheap
I listened to the live dvd "Some girls, live in Texas" from 78 the other day. Bill plays great bass the whole show and he is not mixed down. You hear him loud and well. Great playing.

With broken fingers!

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DoomandGloom
Hardly anyone listens to Darryl Jones and thinks, Oh Yeah, that's much better.

his mom does, but she was never much of a wyman fan for some reason...

I've always loved Ronnie's sloppy, loopy bass styling that I first heard on the Jeff Beck "Truth"LP but recently I got a MONO promo 45 version of HAPPY and the Keith bass is VERY upfront..I actually never really heard it the way I do on this mix!

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scottkeef
I've always loved Ronnie's sloppy, loopy bass styling that I first heard on the Jeff Beck "Truth"LP but recently I got a MONO promo 45 version of HAPPY and the Keith bass is VERY upfront..I actually never really heard it the way I do on this mix!

Wow a mono mix, does it have different elements? I'm shocked to hear there are alternate commercial mixes for Exile. Yep Wood is a good bassist but he refused to move over when Wyman split.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-09 23:10 by DoomandGloom.

Yeah, it was kinda a surprise for me too..I had the MONO Tumbling Dice 45 (which just smokes in a way the LP cant do) and I had heard the All Down The Line MONO 45 but not this one...

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scottkeef
Yeah, it was kinda a surprise for me too..I had the MONO Tumbling Dice 45 (which just smokes in a way the LP cant do) and I had heard the All Down The Line MONO 45 but not this one...

I really want the entire album of mono mixes.. Are the vocals louder on TD? There must be some slightly different edits and vocal ad libs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-09 23:19 by DoomandGloom.

Bill's bass playing has really surprised me every time I have taken the time to analyze it in a song. Never really liked his look or attitude much but as a bass player he is damn good, imho. peace

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Naturalust
Bill's bass playing has really surprised me every time I have taken the time to analyze it in a song. Never really liked his look or attitude much but as a bass player he is damn good, imho. peace

Bill always looked more like a Rolling Stone than the others.

I think Bill was pretty essential to the authentic Rolling Stones.

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DoomandGloom

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scottkeef
Yeah, it was kinda a surprise for me too..I had the MONO Tumbling Dice 45 (which just smokes in a way the LP cant do) and I had heard the All Down The Line MONO 45 but not this one...

I really want the entire album of mono mixes.. Are the vocals louder on TD? There must be some slightly different edits and vocal ad libs.

Holy smokes! I just noticed that my 45 of TD is in mono, too. I never knew it.
The flip side is in stereo, though (Sweet Black Angel).
Mind you, I haven't played it in years. I got to go through all my 45s again.

I bought my TD at Gibson's in 72 for 50 cents and as a dumb 15 yr old thought "Hey, its only half price cause its mono not stereo." haha didnt know I had something really cool but the main thing I always noticed was how much "hotter" this 45 sounded than the LP that I bought just weeks later. My older brother had saved his pennies in a big coffee can and told me if I would roll them up I could buy EXILE with them..I didnt care, I walked in there and plunked down the 5.99 plus tax in pennies!

Why did they do them in mono? In 1972?

Bill is a bass player, the others play cool guitar riffs on a bass. Big, big difference. A bass player such as Bill forms a grooving unity with the drummer. He is always there but you don't notice him until he stops playing.

Cool guitar riffs played on a bass are nothing like that.

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talkcheap
Why did they do them in mono? In 1972?

I've recorded my own stuff down the years and sometimes mono is better.

I rarely have a massive left/right channel seperation.

The Beatles albums are better in mono.

In the US, at least thru the late 70s to early 80s AM radio was still the king as far as top 40 playlists went. AM could not bcast in stereo(at least at the time as I understand it) so there would be MONO mixes provided to the DJs of the singles. And of course until around 68 or 69 there were always mono and stereo mixes of the LPS-I always bought the MONO because they were a dollar cheaper haha guess I lucked out tho!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-09 23:45 by scottkeef.

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GravityBoy

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talkcheap
Why did they do them in mono? In 1972?

I've recorded my own stuff down the years and sometimes mono is better.

I rarely have a massive left/right channel seperation.

The Beatles albums are better in mono.

even better than the google-phonic versions?

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StonesTod

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GravityBoy

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talkcheap
Why did they do them in mono? In 1972?

I've recorded my own stuff down the years and sometimes mono is better.

I rarely have a massive left/right channel seperation.

The Beatles albums are better in mono.

even better than the google-phonic versions?

Approximately 3.675 times better.

at least Keith and Ronnie play real basses ..not those funny home-made things..

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duke richardson
at least Keith and Ronnie play real basses ..not those funny home-made things..

remember the bass-omatic? yeah, that was awesome....

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duke richardson
at least Keith and Ronnie play real basses ..not those funny home-made things..

Aw, come on!! you know you really want one of Bill's "home-tweaked" bass git-fiddles!! HAR HAR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-10 00:34 by scottkeef.

Some of the occasions Bill wasn't present during the recordings - fx. during EOMS.

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GravityBoy
The Beatles albums are better in mono.

That's mostly because the mono versions were considered the "main" or "default" mixes before stereo became standard around '68. They put all their effort into making the mono Revolver and mono Sgt Pepper sounding great, and then had an engineer (more or less) quickly dish out the stereo version with less attention to detail. In later years, the stereo mixes became the common ones, which made the superior mono versions more sought after.

In the Stones case, the situation was a little different, because during the Andrew Oldham years, their production wasn't as good as that of the Beatles/George Martin. In 1967 their songs were so messy that mono/stereo hardly mattered (yeah, I know that's a stretch), and by '68, with Jimmy Miller's fantastic production, mono wasn't interesting anymore.

However, I recently listened to the mono version of Satanic, and to my ears it's clearly superior to the stereo version. More punch and focus. The same can not be said about the mono Banquet, IMHO.

Apart from AM radio purposes (as scottkeef explained), the Stones sometimes went for mono for a punchier mix, as with the well-known All Down The Line version, being mono on the otherwise completely stereo mixed Exile album.


Sorry about the OT...



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-10 01:35 by LieB.

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LieB

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GravityBoy
The Beatles albums are better in mono.

That's mostly because the mono versions were considered the "main" or "default" mixes before stereo became standard around '68. They put all their effort into making the mono Revolver and mono Sgt Pepper sounding great, and then had an engineer (more or less) quickly dish out the stereo version with less attention to detail. In later years, the stereo mixes became the common ones, which made the superior mono versions more sought after.

In the Stones case, the situation was a little different, because during the Andrew Oldham years, their production wasn't as good as that of the Beatles/George Martin. In 1967 their songs were so messy that mono/stereo hardly mattered (yeah, I know that's a stretch), and by '68, with Jimmy Miller's fantastic production, mono wasn't interesting anymore.

However, I recently listened to the mono version of Satanic, and to my ears it's clearly superior to the stereo version. More punch and focus. The same can not be said about the mono Banquet, IMHO.

Apart from AM radio purposes (as scottkeef explained), the Stones sometimes went for mono for a punchier mix, as with the well-known All Down The Line version, being mono on the otherwise completely stereo mixed Exile album.


Sorry about the OT...

So "ALL Down.. " is mono on Exile? Wow!!!!