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Charlie is usually great and hardly ever plays anything wrong but WHAT is he doing here?
Charlie can not be praised enough. Without Charlie the Stones would have sounded like any other rock band. Charlie is what makes the Stones swing. Without Charlie Keith would have been a mediocre guitarist just like you and me -it's his playing with Watts for 1o years that gave Richards his awkward timing.
And when you play 3200 odd shows, it's allowed to have a piss on one show. Maybe it was something he ate, give the man a break.
Mathijs
I'm afraid I must agree with this sentiment. Hell, I think Charlie agrees with this sentiment. He is a solid, reliable drummer, but he is simply not a rock drummer...much less a GREAT rock drummer. When it works it's pretty good: Miss You, YCAGWYW (live), Sympathy for the Devil (studio), CYHMK and all the ballads.
But @#$%&, they have recorded him in a stairwell to try to get a rock sound out of him. And Kenney Jones, Jimmy Miller and probably others have replaced him in the studio. You know Jagger prefers a more dynamic drummer...using Simon Phillips on solo tours/albums. And for him to even dare using a drum machine on a Stones track with Charlie in the band...come on.
Having said all that, I still think he is one of the reasons I love the Stones. A jazz drummer in the World's Greatest Rock and Roll band is such an anomaly and it shows the guys' loyalty to Charlie. When it works it's brilliant, when it doesn't it still pretty damn good.
John Bonham was the best rock drummer in my opinion. Keith Moon WAY too much banging around.
Some people attending that show wrote here about Keith being pissed off for some reason, and didn't play what he was supposed to; went back to Watts and stood there; saying something - then Charlie stopped for a moment. Sounds unlikely that Charlie Watts just "didn't feel like playing" for a couple of seconds
Bonzo bashed way more than Moon ever did. When he tried to play other styles, like that sort-of-reggae thing on D'yer Mak'er it sounded pretty bad.
+1. Just an off-night.
To me it sounds like Moon is playing one long drum fill. Particularly on Quadrophenia.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
DiscoVolante
()
Date: December 22, 2012 21:05
Charlie is usually great and hardly ever plays anything wrong but WHAT is he doing here?
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: December 22, 2012 21:32
stuff happens, prob the monitors or a piece of broken drum eqip. cw is the least of the prob
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
TooTough
()
Date: December 22, 2012 23:17
Charlie is the only one who´s right...
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
Sacke
()
Date: December 22, 2012 23:22
Mick Taylor's playing is flawless and fluent, and so is his tone. Even a Charlie missing a few bars doesn't bother me...this performance is so hot!!
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: December 22, 2012 23:27
Charlie is always right, even when he is wrong he's right,
where he belongs he's right, where he belongs.
where he belongs he's right, where he belongs.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
flacnvinyl
()
Date: December 22, 2012 23:47
@DiscoVolante - Keith is playing the part a bit different. His timing isn't necessarily off, but it is 'different' which is throwing off Charlie. I was having a hard time finding Keith's groove too. Not surprised that Charlie had a hard time picking it out as well! It happens!
One of the fun things about the Stones is to see who recovers the song. Frequently Charlie holds things down and Jagger attempts to steer the boat correctly. When they talk about stage chemistry a single wink/look can mean 'here comes a big change'. So a small change can screw things up too.
Fun to hear!
One of the fun things about the Stones is to see who recovers the song. Frequently Charlie holds things down and Jagger attempts to steer the boat correctly. When they talk about stage chemistry a single wink/look can mean 'here comes a big change'. So a small change can screw things up too.
Fun to hear!
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
lapaz62
()
Date: December 23, 2012 00:40
I think this is a really good show, pity the recording was not so great, maybe there is a better version that may turn up one day.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
ChrisM
()
Date: December 24, 2012 06:20
I can produce no counter argument to this....Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Charlie is always right, even when he is wrong he's right,
where he belongs he's right, where he belongs.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
rob51
()
Date: December 24, 2012 08:36
Charlie Watts is obviously the luckiest mediocre drummer alive.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
Glammy
()
Date: December 24, 2012 09:39
I know it sounds blasphemic BUT: Charlie is terribly overrated as a rock drummer. He often sounds like crap in a live situation. And I will never forget when he stopped playing and went away (!) in the middle of Sympathy For the Devil in Frankfurt on the BB tour. WTF??? That's such a NO GO for every drummer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-12-24 09:48 by Glammy.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-12-24 09:48 by Glammy.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: December 24, 2012 11:21
Quote
Glammy
I know it sounds blasphemic BUT: Charlie is terribly overrated as a rock drummer. He often sounds like crap in a live situation. And I will never forget when he stopped playing and went away (!) in the middle of Sympathy For the Devil in Frankfurt on the BB tour. WTF??? That's such a NO GO for every drummer.
Charlie can not be praised enough. Without Charlie the Stones would have sounded like any other rock band. Charlie is what makes the Stones swing. Without Charlie Keith would have been a mediocre guitarist just like you and me -it's his playing with Watts for 1o years that gave Richards his awkward timing.
And when you play 3200 odd shows, it's allowed to have a piss on one show. Maybe it was something he ate, give the man a break.
Mathijs
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
MadMax
()
Date: December 24, 2012 13:37
Mathijs God speed!!!
110% agreed!
110% agreed!
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
punkfloyd
()
Date: December 24, 2012 15:17
Quote
Glammy
I know it sounds blasphemic BUT: Charlie is terribly overrated as a rock drummer. He often sounds like crap in a live situation. And I will never forget when he stopped playing and went away (!) in the middle of Sympathy For the Devil in Frankfurt on the BB tour. WTF??? That's such a NO GO for every drummer.
I'm afraid I must agree with this sentiment. Hell, I think Charlie agrees with this sentiment. He is a solid, reliable drummer, but he is simply not a rock drummer...much less a GREAT rock drummer. When it works it's pretty good: Miss You, YCAGWYW (live), Sympathy for the Devil (studio), CYHMK and all the ballads.
But @#$%&, they have recorded him in a stairwell to try to get a rock sound out of him. And Kenney Jones, Jimmy Miller and probably others have replaced him in the studio. You know Jagger prefers a more dynamic drummer...using Simon Phillips on solo tours/albums. And for him to even dare using a drum machine on a Stones track with Charlie in the band...come on.
Having said all that, I still think he is one of the reasons I love the Stones. A jazz drummer in the World's Greatest Rock and Roll band is such an anomaly and it shows the guys' loyalty to Charlie. When it works it's brilliant, when it doesn't it still pretty damn good.
John Bonham was the best rock drummer in my opinion. Keith Moon WAY too much banging around.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: December 24, 2012 15:40
Quote
Glammy
And I will never forget when he stopped playing and went away (!) in the middle of Sympathy For the Devil in Frankfurt on the BB tour. WTF??? That's such a NO GO for every drummer.
Some people attending that show wrote here about Keith being pissed off for some reason, and didn't play what he was supposed to; went back to Watts and stood there; saying something - then Charlie stopped for a moment. Sounds unlikely that Charlie Watts just "didn't feel like playing" for a couple of seconds
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: December 24, 2012 15:49
It is precisely because he is not a rock-drummer that he is brilliant within the Stones. What some here are calling liability is one of their biggest assets.
Why is it so impossible for 99% of other bands to replicate that Stones magic? Nobody covers "Gimme Shelter", "Tumblin Dice", effectively because there is no Charlie, Keith, Wyman. These guys did everything a bit backwards. slowed down, at low volume, coming at it from a countryfied jazz-blues angle.
Why is it so impossible for 99% of other bands to replicate that Stones magic? Nobody covers "Gimme Shelter", "Tumblin Dice", effectively because there is no Charlie, Keith, Wyman. These guys did everything a bit backwards. slowed down, at low volume, coming at it from a countryfied jazz-blues angle.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
BowieStone
()
Date: December 24, 2012 16:00
Charlie is a rare breed.
But I do not get the fixation of some fans that he is a jazz drummer.
Well, he might be... But he's very mediocre in that genre, while he's a very subtle and swinging rock and roll drummer. Simply the best.
But I do not get the fixation of some fans that he is a jazz drummer.
Well, he might be... But he's very mediocre in that genre, while he's a very subtle and swinging rock and roll drummer. Simply the best.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
Shade
()
Date: December 24, 2012 16:36
It's either the recording or Charlie is distracted or using one hand while fixing something. Maybe a tech was leaning in adjusting something? IDK
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: December 24, 2012 16:54
I can't believe folks are almost questioning Charlie's unique contribution to what constitutes the sound and "swing, of the band.
If you sat the world's greatest "Rock" drummmer [pick whomesoever you want !] on Charlie's stool, you'd lose everything that characterises the Stones' inimitable groove.
If you sat the world's greatest "Rock" drummmer [pick whomesoever you want !] on Charlie's stool, you'd lose everything that characterises the Stones' inimitable groove.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: December 24, 2012 17:38
Charlie Watts is one of the most unique drummers ever. Lately he's proved that he is not a one dimensional player. He's always been a stylist who can provide accompaniment to either rock and roll or boogie woogie styles, and he can play in a big band if he knows the players well...thats why we have his albums..
he is certainly a modest player who loves to play with Keith, and loves to play with boogie piano players too..
but his influences, Dave Tough, Chick Webb, Max Roach, Sonny Greer, Chico Hamilton, Phil Seaman, all were old school jazz drummers.
when Charlie joined the Stones he learned the R&B drummers styles and incorporated that with his understanding of bebop drummers like Kenney Clarke
and the result is that swing for the Stones, the Charlie sound and feel that is so unique and deceptively simple.
he is certainly a modest player who loves to play with Keith, and loves to play with boogie piano players too..
but his influences, Dave Tough, Chick Webb, Max Roach, Sonny Greer, Chico Hamilton, Phil Seaman, all were old school jazz drummers.
when Charlie joined the Stones he learned the R&B drummers styles and incorporated that with his understanding of bebop drummers like Kenney Clarke
and the result is that swing for the Stones, the Charlie sound and feel that is so unique and deceptively simple.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
stones78
()
Date: December 24, 2012 18:05
Quote
punkfloyd
John Bonham was the best rock drummer in my opinion. Keith Moon WAY too much banging around.
Bonzo bashed way more than Moon ever did. When he tried to play other styles, like that sort-of-reggae thing on D'yer Mak'er it sounded pretty bad.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: December 24, 2012 18:43
Impossible to compare Charlie with other Rock drummers. He is his own thing. One of the reasons I love his playing is because he gives plenty of room for the other instruments and vocals to shine. Never one to stand out but always solid as a rock with the simple backbeat and simple drum kit.
I can tell Charlies drumming from a mile away so somehow he has managed to develop his own unique style without competing or walking over the other instruments.
I thought Jimmy Miller was GREAT at capturing his drum sounds, no one since has done him the justice he deserves, imho.
As far from being mediocre, that is just plain ignorance. Anybody who has played in a rock band knows that Charlie is one of the best. peace
I can tell Charlies drumming from a mile away so somehow he has managed to develop his own unique style without competing or walking over the other instruments.
I thought Jimmy Miller was GREAT at capturing his drum sounds, no one since has done him the justice he deserves, imho.
As far from being mediocre, that is just plain ignorance. Anybody who has played in a rock band knows that Charlie is one of the best. peace
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: December 24, 2012 18:43
The last thing I would ever think to read on a Stones' forum is that Charlie is a bad drummer ... I survived the end of the world the other day, I guess I will survive this too ...
C
C
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
MILKYWAY
()
Date: December 24, 2012 19:23
Quote
DoomandGloom
stuff happens, prob the monitors or a piece of broken drum eqip. cw is the least of the prob
+1. Just an off-night.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
Happy24
()
Date: December 24, 2012 19:29
Quote
Mathijs
Charlie can not be praised enough.Mathijs
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
punkfloyd
()
Date: December 24, 2012 19:35
Quote
stones78Quote
punkfloyd
John Bonham was the best rock drummer in my opinion. Keith Moon WAY too much banging around.
Bonzo bashed way more than Moon ever did. When he tried to play other styles, like that sort-of-reggae thing on D'yer Mak'er it sounded pretty bad.
To me it sounds like Moon is playing one long drum fill. Particularly on Quadrophenia.
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
punkfloyd
()
Date: December 24, 2012 19:38
He is not a bad drummer. But there is nothing particularly special about this:
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
punkfloyd
()
Date: December 24, 2012 19:43
To me this John Bonham rhythm is a song unto itself. Though he was a complete dick from what I've read...so Charlie wins in that respect!
Re: Charlie's bad playing (Perth 73)
Posted by:
Justin
()
Date: December 24, 2012 22:43
Charlie Watts' playing is a guitar player's dream: steady, spacious and uncluttered. Out of all the people I've played music with--no one--absolutely no one has been able to get Charlie's sound or feel. If it was so easy or "nothing special" you'd think you'd find everyone able to duplicate it. Haven't found one person yet.
No one claimed Charlie was the best ever--even he wouldn't agree to that. But in a genre where more is better--something is to be said about his minimalist approach. "Monkey Man" proves just how much the song still works even with his restrained playing. It still works and does the job and more importantly: does the song justice.
Rock drummer fans (and I mean that literally....rock..not rock and roll) automatically dismiss Watts. And it never surprises me.
No one claimed Charlie was the best ever--even he wouldn't agree to that. But in a genre where more is better--something is to be said about his minimalist approach. "Monkey Man" proves just how much the song still works even with his restrained playing. It still works and does the job and more importantly: does the song justice.
Rock drummer fans (and I mean that literally....rock..not rock and roll) automatically dismiss Watts. And it never surprises me.
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