Over a heated drunken conversation last night, one of my friends, who is also a big stones fan, got into an argument over who the greatest entertainers of the 20th century was. I of course argued it was the greatest rock n roll band in the world- the stones. My friend, on the other hand insists that this award should go to the chairman of the board, Mr. Frank Sinatra. We also considered elvis and the beatles, Not a huge elvis fan, but i am a huge beatle fan but i couldn't consider them because they stopped touring when they truly started to transcend music. Although i love Frank my argument agains him is that he wasn't touring around 80,000 seat arenas. Wondering what you guys think about all this.

Then I said Hi, like a spider to a fly...

Elvis. Absolutely no contest.

Size of venues has nothing to with it, thats more to do with the way the music industry has changed over the years than anything. Had Elvis still been around, he'd be selling places every bit as much as the Stones have.

Elvis never even toured outside America and he was still the biggest selling artist of all time and the best known person on earth. How big he COULD have been had he been properly managed and had he still been alive is almost incomprehensible.

He also wrote the book as far as being an entertainer goes. In terms of impact, popularity, celebrity and charisma, the Stones arent even close.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-04 04:26 by Gazza.

>Although i love Frank my argument agains him is that he wasn't touring around 80,000 seat arenas.

Sinatra dodnt just play casinos...he also filled arenas and stadiums.

He played in the Maracana in Rio several years before the Stones did. And attracted an even bigger crowd too.

Elvis chose not to play outdoor stadium shows. He did play the Pontiac Silverdome on new years eve in '75 though, which is indoors however.

Gazza wrote: "Elvis chose not to play outdoor stadium shows"

Yeah, I wonder why?

Btw, Greatest [what] Entertainer: in Music, Stage, Las Vegas, Film, TV, etc.? I think you would be hard put to throw all these in a pot, and pick only one Entertainer to represent it all.

IMO:
I'm not, and never was, an Elvis fan, but I have to disagree with you on, "Had Elvis still been around, he'd be selling places every bit as much as the Stones have."

Not unless Elvis had got his "health" together, and "lost some weight," so, no, he wouldn't have been selling places/shows, unless it was a freak show, (sorry).

Many of his diehard fans, if not all, just didn't see what he was becoming, (a laughing Stock) before he died. It didn't appear he was into exercise or healthy eating, nor did he want to be, nor, was he on the road to be.

A picture is worth a 1000 words, look at a few of Elvis in Concert after his weight gain, and toward the end, sad, but a joke.

If he hadn't died in the bathroom on the pot, he'd died on stage from a heart attack. Come on, the man had to have his peanut butter/balona sandwiches 3 times a day. And not just one serving either each time. Oh yeah, his greasy chicken too.

Elvis had it all, and he couldn't keep in decent shape?? Try to figure, what a waste. Therefore, he would not have been able to with-stand many more grueling tours/shows, like the STONES do today.

Regardless of what people want to think, the STONES are in shape and get in shape for each of the Tours. Most all the crap in the press about drugs etc., is bullshit. Sure, the Stones dabbled in and probably still do some drugs, but that's all. I'll say it again, just think about it, if the Stones had done all the Stuff they are reported to have done, they'd be dead like Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, and yes, even Elvis, among others that didn't wise up.

I say it's Mick Jagger.I think it comes down to who actually continues to perform thru out the decades and remains popular. Frank was a contender for a long time .He had his time. Elvis had a chance but he did not take care of himself.He could have went a long way but lost it. The Beatles could have done the same thing the Stones are doing but the Beatles were lazy and refused to tour or shall we say “entertain”. Lets face it . There are not too many other performers that are household names that are still able to do it, night after night, year after year... let alone out perform Mick Jagger. No way, no how. I know my reasoning is simple but true never the less.

If you ever saw the Stones performing Midnight Rambler live (any gig), you know who the greatest entertainer is. Mick's diversity on stage as a performer is unrivaled. It really is. The man can do anything, anywhere in the world and he always gets the crowd going like no one else.

It's Elvis. Jagger is second.

JumpingKentFlash

Demon Wrote:
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> Gazza wrote: "Elvis chose not to play outdoor
> stadium shows"
>
> Yeah, I wonder why?

Because they make for shit concerts. They certainly did back in 1977, when technology wasnt what it is now. If you're implying he couldnt hack it as a performer in an outdoor venue or sell them out, then thats nonsensical.

> Not unless Elvis had got his "health" together,
> and "lost some weight," so, no, he wouldn't have
> been selling places/shows, unless it was a freak
> show, (sorry).
>
> Many of his diehard fans, if not all, just didn't
> see what he was becoming, (a laughing Stock)
> before he died.

You could say that about the Stones too. Many people (even Stones fans) feel that way. Personally, I dont subscribe to it.

It didn't appear he was into
> exercise or healthy eating, nor did he want to be,
> nor, was he on the road to be.
>
> A picture is worth a 1000 words, look at a few of
> Elvis in Concert after his weight gain, and toward
> the end, sad, but a joke.
>
> If he hadn't died in the bathroom on the pot, he'd
> died on stage from a heart attack. Come on, the
> man had to have his peanut butter/balona
> sandwiches 3 times a day. And not just one
> serving either each time. Oh yeah, his greasy
> chicken too.
>
> Elvis had it all, and he couldn't keep in decent
> shape?? Try to figure, what a waste. Therefore,
> he would not have been able to with-stand many
> more grueling tours/shows, like the STONES do
> today.

He was still selling out huge arenas every night until he died. He's now even more successful 27 years after his death than he was when he was alive. To suggest he wouldnt still be capable of selling places out had he still been alive is wishful thinking. You're also assuming he wouldnt have got his health in order, which , with respect, is an entirely moot point and not what the question related to. Not to mention the stereotyped image of some fat guy in a jumpsuit who was out of his gourd for the last couple of years of his life. The 'entertainer' I'm thinking of is the Elvis of his prime (pre-army, '68 NBC special etc) and I dont think anyone has matched that sheer impact ever since.

If you're answering the question by listing your 'favourite entertainer' which I think some people are, then the answer on a Stones board is going to be a no-brainer. Mick's an amazing performer, but I dont think he revolutionised the art of performing from what had gone before like Elvis did.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-04 12:49 by Gazza.

Rank Outsider Wrote:
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> If you ever saw the Stones performing Midnight
> Rambler live (any gig), you know who the greatest
> entertainer is. Mick's diversity on stage as a
> performer is unrivaled. It really is. The man can
> do anything, anywhere in the world and he always
> gets the crowd going like no one else.


Talking to people I know who've seen both Elvis AND Mick - and the Elvis show was in the final year in his life when he was supposedly well past it - they've said that they have still to this day never known anyone drive a crowd as wild as he could. And if thats what he was capable of in 1977, then God knows what that must have been like in 1957.

"Midnight Rambler" is a strange example to make. It might get you and me worked up, but half of the sort of people who go to Stones shows these days probably wouldnt even know it.

Elvis had more charisma than everybody else taken together. He was the greatest entertainer of the 20th century.

I understand your point on MR Gazza, probably not the best example in general. I don't completely agree on your opinion about Elvis though. He was an extreordinary performer, but sometimes I think his early death contributed a little bit to much to his legend as the King. Me, myself, have great admiration for someone like Jagger who pushed on for nearly 45 years. His life style in the late sixties and early seventies could easily have teared him apart as well, but he went on.
Another point can be made from the songwriter's point of view. Mick wrote so emotional pieces, which come alive during a live gig. Just listen to Wild Horses in the seventies or anything else. + I think no one can match his diversity.

James Brown & Michael Jackson were the greatest entertainers. Period.

Gary Glitter was also good I hear.

JumpingKentFlash

In no particular order:

Elvis Presley
Mick Jagger
Cab Calloway
James Brown
John Philip Sousa
Benny Goodman
Michael Jackson
The Who
Robbie Williams

All of these guys are great but who has done it the longest? AND WILL CONTINUE. I would say M.J.

er..I think some of those names have "done it" for considerably longer than Mick has (or will)....

frank sinatra.

Gazza please name a few because i am at a loss...maybe caruso or pavarotti ? was frank sinatra around that long? John Philip Sousa and or Benny Goodman were good .yes. but come on. Greatest entertainer of the 20th century? Maybe we should include The Pope. He can still bring in a crowd...

JamesBurton Wrote:
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> In no particular order:
>
> Elvis Presley

Hey that's not fair James, you used to play with Elvis!! :--)

I recently saw the movie "Elvis on Tour" which I think is from his 72 US tour. Although you could see the drugs and bloat starting to creep in, the man's performances were often incredible. What a voice! In particular, some of the backstage scenes where he was singing gospel tunes with his backup singers were F*cking Incredible. I've never been much of an EP fan, but this movie changed my opinion quite a bit.

karl


'Don’t forget, if you’re on your bike, wear white'

bassaleman Wrote:
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> Gazza please name a few because i am at a
> loss...maybe caruso or pavarotti ? was frank
> sinatra around that long? John Philip Sousa and or
> Benny Goodman were good .yes. but come on.
> Greatest entertainer of the 20th century? Maybe we
> should include The Pope. He can still bring in a
> crowd...
>


from the list that you replied to (which wasnt mine, incidentally), well Cab Calloway, Benny Goodman and James Brown for starters were around longer than Mick has been. I dont know Sousa

Was Sinatra around that long? He performed from his early twenties until he was around 80!

Michael Jackson has been performing almost as long as Mick has, even though hes 15 years younger. If his money and gullible fanbase can keep him out of jail, no reason to assume he cant end up having a career longer than Mick.

and if youre including non-singers like the Pope, then you could throw in @#$%& too. He was pretty capable of getting a huge crowd worked up.

Elvis' way of ending the shows is all we need to know to answer the question. On the final chord he kneeled with one knee and turned his back to the audience. He spread his arms and exposed a huge cloak which had this wonderful american eagle sewn in jewels on it. That's almost orgasmic! And then the band started playing his trademark C.C.Rider riff while he took farewell of the audience.

It's Mick Jagger, of course!

"got to be worked on
don't have no bark nor bite..."

Of course. For so long, on such a high level - no one else comes close to Jagger.

elvis was great but jagger is the man...hes just got it...i wish i had some of it

James Brown comes close, I think.
He is still a great performer!

I can't believe nobody has said
Liberace!!!

Who's Liberace??
Never heard of him/her (to be sexually correct)

your grandmother would know
He's was only the biggest queen ever!
All the old ladies loved him.
Think of Elton John on acid.

read my lips...it was all invented by LOUIS ARMSTRONG

Donkey Girl Scout Wrote:
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> your grandmother would know
> He's was only the biggest queen ever!
> All the old ladies loved him.
> Think of Elton John on acid.


New thread: Who was the Greatest Queen of the 20th Century?

Soon before Liberace succumbed to Aids, his assistant asked him about funeral arrangements. "Would you like roses placed on your piano?" he asked. Liberace replied, "I'd prefer tulips on my organ!"

Well, who wouldn't??