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kowalski

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues

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Erik_Snow
Kowalski is right again. Those 1986 pressings are terrific. It's amazing how terrible the later CD releases were in comparision; untill the 2002 reissues were released

As far as I recall there have only been to issues on CD of the 1960s albums - the 1986 ones and the 2002's. Beggars 2002 blows 1986 out of the water and beyond.

"London" CD's were issued in the mid 80's but in the 90's ABKCO reissued these albums under the banner "digitally remastered from original master recording". Then again - with proper and true remastering this time - they reissued them in 2002.

Edit : Erik Snow summed up the whole thing quite well in the message above.

All the ABKCO original CDs I have say 1986 on them.

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues

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kowalski

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues

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Erik_Snow
Kowalski is right again. Those 1986 pressings are terrific. It's amazing how terrible the later CD releases were in comparision; untill the 2002 reissues were released

As far as I recall there have only been to issues on CD of the 1960s albums - the 1986 ones and the 2002's. Beggars 2002 blows 1986 out of the water and beyond.

"London" CD's were issued in the mid 80's but in the 90's ABKCO reissued these albums under the banner "digitally remastered from original master recording". Then again - with proper and true remastering this time - they reissued them in 2002.

Edit : Erik Snow summed up the whole thing quite well in the message above.

All the ABKCO original CDs I have say 1986 on them.

"London" labeled CD's are actually ABKCO but were released for Europe only.
US had differently mastered CD's.

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kowalski
"London" labeled CD's are actually ABKCO but were released for Europe only. US had differently mastered CD's.

Now why would they do that? Sometimes these goofballs make NO sense.

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues

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kowalski
"London" labeled CD's are actually ABKCO but were released for Europe only. US had differently mastered CD's.

Now why would they do that? Sometimes these goofballs make NO sense.

It's a complicated story that has something to do with Allen Klein's very special way of doing things. To make it short apparently the digital masters made by MFSL were kind of stolen from them to put these on CD. I think you can read the whole story on the link given at the beginning of the first page of this thread.

I just got a new sound system which includes a SACD player (always just had a regular CD player); I put on "Let It Bleed" last night and I was in awe. I can't wait to listen to the other ABCKO reissues on my SACD player now.

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Justin
I just got a new sound system which includes a SACD player (always just had a regular CD player); I put on "Let It Bleed" last night and I was in awe. I can't wait to listen to the other ABCKO reissues on my SACD player now.

If you can play the SACD layer of these reissues, that must the definitive versions with no hesitations. CD layer is more debatable though...

The SACD layers are also available as high resolution downloads on HDTracks but for whatever reason don't sound as good as the original SACD's.

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kowalski

The SACD layers are also available as high resolution downloads on HDTracks but for whatever reason don't sound as good as the original SACD's.

What are you using to play the HD files?

C

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liddas

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kowalski

The SACD layers are also available as high resolution downloads on HDTracks but for whatever reason don't sound as good as the original SACD's.

What are you using to play the HD files?

C

Computer plugged to good hi fi audio system. To my ears they seem to sound harsher and to have something missing. Just the sound doesn't seem as full as on the SACD. Maybe it's because the files on HDTracks are downsampled versions of the original SACD files?

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kowalski

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Justin
I just got a new sound system which includes a SACD player (always just had a regular CD player); I put on "Let It Bleed" last night and I was in awe. I can't wait to listen to the other ABCKO reissues on my SACD player now.

If you can play the SACD layer of these reissues, that must the definitive versions with no hesitations. CD layer is more debatable though...

The SACD layers are also available as high resolution downloads on HDTracks but for whatever reason don't sound as good as the original SACD's.

My player is reading the SACD layer and it's glorious. The acoustic guitars come sparkling through. It really is mind-blowing. But a huge part of it is me upgrading to a more higher end (although entry-level) system from my rinky-dink shelf systems I've had for years. So I'm listening to a lot of music with a new sense of appreciation now...

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kowalski

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liddas

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kowalski

The SACD layers are also available as high resolution downloads on HDTracks but for whatever reason don't sound as good as the original SACD's.

What are you using to play the HD files?

C

Computer plugged to good hi fi audio system. To my ears they seem to sound harsher and to have something missing. Just the sound doesn't seem as full as on the SACD. Maybe it's because the files on HDTracks are downsampled versions of the original SACD files?

I think that more likely the components of your computer are crappier than those of your SACD player. Unless your computer was custom made to play audio, its digital to audio converter, among other things, will be quite cheap. A friend of mine has both a streamer (linn) and a SACD: we made an AB comparison, and the HD files (or the streamer) indeed sounded more "rich" and complex. Not a night and day experience, but you could hear the difference.

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liddas

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kowalski

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liddas

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kowalski

The SACD layers are also available as high resolution downloads on HDTracks but for whatever reason don't sound as good as the original SACD's.

What are you using to play the HD files?

C

Computer plugged to good hi fi audio system. To my ears they seem to sound harsher and to have something missing. Just the sound doesn't seem as full as on the SACD. Maybe it's because the files on HDTracks are downsampled versions of the original SACD files?

I think that more likely the components of your computer are crappier than those of your SACD player. Unless your computer was custom made to play audio, its digital to audio converter, among other things, will be quite cheap. A friend of mine has both a streamer (linn) and a SACD: we made an AB comparison, and the HD files (or the streamer) indeed sounded more "rich" and complex. Not a night and day experience, but you could hear the difference.

My computer soundcard can play HD files up to 24 bit - 176.4 kHz with no problem. And I have HD fileswhich are played on the same computer but from others sources than HDTracks that sound indeed really good (I'm thinking of Neil Young's latest albums, all released in HD but through his record label). The thing with the Stones albums on HD Tracks is their sound is very dry, like lacking of something. That's why I was wondering how HDTracks files are converted from SACD files (when they use SACD as source).

I have the 2002 hybrid SACDs and I can't tell the difference between the redbook layer and the SACD layer.

Are my ears deceiving me?

Buy single layer sacds if you can.
Because cd layer sometimes deteriorates sacd layer in hybrid.
The sound of - 2010 Beggars Banquet/single layer sacd - is a champion, I believe.

Another option is:
High Reso Stones

These high reso files are using same masters as shm-sacds.

I don't have anything like a state of the art system and I'm not usually too bothered about CD sound, but listening to GRRR, even I have been struck by how much less I'm enjoying the 60s tracks compared to my ABKCO versions of the London Years and the individual albums. (This is the CD I'm talking about, not the SACD layer.) Maybe I am finally starting to hear what this "brickwalling" is all about - the sound is kind of blurred compared to the lovely clarity of the ABKCO discs.

I have the Grrrr Audio BluRay and some of those tracks are incredibly rich in sound. Lovely, really.

s there anything on Grrrr that is in stereo that isn't stereo anywhere else?

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bobcat
s there anything on Grrrr that is in stereo that isn't stereo anywhere else?

The single edit of You Can't Always Get What You Want that appears on Grrr! is in Stereo. The same edit is in Mono on the 2002 edition of Singles Collection. However, the Stereo version was originally released on the 1989 version of Singles Collection, so it has been out of print for many years and is now again widely available.

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Toru A
Buy single layer sacds if you can.
Because cd layer sometimes deteriorates sacd layer in hybrid.
The sound of - 2010 Beggars Banquet/single layer sacd - is a champion, I believe.

Another option is:
High Reso Stones

These high reso files are using same masters as shm-sacds.

Hi Toru, can you give us more information on the webiste from onkyo. Are these files official high res downloads?


I tried to buy Exile but apparently you can't buy outside of Japan...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-05 04:25 by kowalski.

Anyone else managed to buy these high res files from onkyo website?

Hi Kowalski,

They are official files. e-onkyo music
I will check if this site is inside Japan only.

Some files are using flat transfer'd masters.
I've downloaded Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs-Derek & The Dominos-24/192. Fantastic sound.

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Toru A
Hi Kowalski,

They are official files. e-onkyo music
I will check if this site is inside Japan only.

Some files are using flat transfer'd masters.
I've downloaded Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs-Derek & The Dominos-24/192. Fantastic sound.

Thanks for your answer, Toru.

I think these "flat transfered masters" are licensed to Japan market only. That may be the reason why you can't buy them outside of Japan.
I expect the rest of the world getting soon or later the crappy brickwalled 2009 remasters as high res downloadable files as GRRR! in high res was apparently quite a success on legal online websites.
It looks like Japan is the last country to care about audiophile quality...

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gomper076
I'm thing of upgrading some of these from the original cd's and wanted to know opinions on if the sound is improved over the original issues. I don't have an SACD player so i'm curious about the cd layer. The titles of interest are

Got Live If You Want It!
Flowers
Singles Collection: The London Years
Between the Buttons (UK)
Their Satanic Majesties Request
Beggars Banquet
Let It Bleed

I also read of some mixups with the speed and correct version of Ruby Tuesday. Not sure what that's about.

I read the responses of Kowalski and Snow and I am somewhat surprised. I bough all the ABKCO CDs of the mid 80s in the 86-87 period. A lot of them sounded sharp/metalic (and partly messed up,like f.i. get Off Of My Cloud). When I bought de SACD CDs in 2002 and played them on my Pioneer DVD/CD player (no need to have a SACD player; a quality DVD player with CD choice is all you need) the sound of some was much warmer and also I could hear instruments that were "lost" on the 80s CDs. Basically they reminded me more of my original vinyl albums. "Got Live ... " wasn't much of an improvement though.
But maybe it depends on where those 80s CD were produced. Germany is known for its quality products (both vinyl and CDs). I bought mine in the States.

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Blueranger

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bobcat
s there anything on Grrrr that is in stereo that isn't stereo anywhere else?

The single edit of You Can't Always Get What You Want that appears on Grrr! is in Stereo. The same edit is in Mono on the 2002 edition of Singles Collection. However, the Stereo version was originally released on the 1989 version of Singles Collection, so it has been out of print for many years and is now again widely available.

Many thanks, Blueranger

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georgie48

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gomper076
I'm thing of upgrading some of these from the original cd's and wanted to know opinions on if the sound is improved over the original issues. I don't have an SACD player so i'm curious about the cd layer. The titles of interest are

Got Live If You Want It!
Flowers
Singles Collection: The London Years
Between the Buttons (UK)
Their Satanic Majesties Request
Beggars Banquet
Let It Bleed

I also read of some mixups with the speed and correct version of Ruby Tuesday. Not sure what that's about.

I read the responses of Kowalski and Snow and I am somewhat surprised. I bough all the ABKCO CDs of the mid 80s in the 86-87 period. A lot of them sounded sharp/metalic (and partly messed up,like f.i. get Off Of My Cloud). When I bought de SACD CDs in 2002 and played them on my Pioneer DVD/CD player (no need to have a SACD player; a quality DVD player with CD choice is all you need) the sound of some was much warmer and also I could hear instruments that were "lost" on the 80s CDs. Basically they reminded me more of my original vinyl albums. "Got Live ... " wasn't much of an improvement though.
But maybe it depends on where those 80s CD were produced. Germany is known for its quality products (both vinyl and CDs). I bought mine in the States.

If you bought your CD's in the USA you had the "ABKCO versions" which never sounded good at all. The 80's CD's I'm talking about are those made in West Germany from MFSL masters and with "London" label on it. Apparently they were sold in Europe only.
Also regarding the 2002 remasters, if you play them on a SACD player, CD and SACD layers are like night and day on a proper audio equipement.

kowalski,

I've gotten a reply from e-onkyo music today that says:
e-onkyo music is granted exclusive distribution rights inside Japan only.
overseas customers can't download files at present.

What a shame!

>I think these "flat transfered masters" are licensed to Japan market only.
>That may be the reason why you can't buy them outside of Japan.

I am enjoying downloading of not only flat transfered masters but other mastered files such as No Secret-Carly Simon-24/192 from e-onkyo.


About speed/pitch issue:

London CD made in West Germany:
Sympathy for the Devil 6:27
No Expectations 4:02
Dear Doctor 3:26
Parachute Woman 2:23
Jigsaw Puzzle 6:17
Street Fighting Man 3:18
Prodigal Son 2:55
Stray Cat Blues 4:40
Factory Girl 2:12
Salt of the Earth 4:51

2002 Hybrid SACD:
Sympathy for the Devil 6:17
No Expectations 3:55
Dear Doctor 3:21
Parachute Woman 2:19
Jigsaw Puzzle 6:05
Street Fighting Man 3:14
Prodigal Son 2:50
Stray Cat Blues 4:37
Factory Girl 2:07
Salt of the Earth 4:49

2010 Single Layer SACD:
Sympathy for the Devil 6:17
No Expectations 3:55
Dear Doctor 3:21
Parachute Woman 2:19
Jigsaw Puzzle 6:05
Street Fighting Man 3:14
Prodigal Son 2:50
Stray Cat Blues 4:37
Factory Girl 2:07
Salt of the Earth 4:47

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Toru A
kowalski,

I've gotten a reply from e-onkyo music today that says:
e-onkyo music is granted exclusive distribution rights inside Japan only.
overseas customers can't download files at present.

What a shame!

>I think these "flat transfered masters" are licensed to Japan market only.
>That may be the reason why you can't buy them outside of Japan.

I am enjoying downloading of not only flat transfered masters but other mastered files such as No Secret-Carly Simon-24/192 from e-onkyo.


About speed/pitch issue:

London CD made in West Germany:
Sympathy for the Devil 6:27
No Expectations 4:02
Dear Doctor 3:26
Parachute Woman 2:23
Jigsaw Puzzle 6:17
Street Fighting Man 3:18
Prodigal Son 2:55
Stray Cat Blues 4:40
Factory Girl 2:12
Salt of the Earth 4:51

2002 Hybrid SACD:
Sympathy for the Devil 6:17
No Expectations 3:55
Dear Doctor 3:21
Parachute Woman 2:19
Jigsaw Puzzle 6:05
Street Fighting Man 3:14
Prodigal Son 2:50
Stray Cat Blues 4:37
Factory Girl 2:07
Salt of the Earth 4:49

2010 Single Layer SACD:
Sympathy for the Devil 6:17
No Expectations 3:55
Dear Doctor 3:21
Parachute Woman 2:19
Jigsaw Puzzle 6:05
Street Fighting Man 3:14
Prodigal Son 2:50
Stray Cat Blues 4:37
Factory Girl 2:07
Salt of the Earth 4:47

Toru, Thank you so much for asking onkyo. It's a shame these high res files are not available worldwide!

About the speed issue, the 2002 remaster of Beggars Banquet is running a little faster than the original master. As far I know the 2010 SACD reissue uses the same mastering as the 2002 Hybrid SACD.