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Okay I'll play by these rules instead of my own. On a scale of 1-10 with 11
possible for extraordinary achievement...
Mick Jagger
Composition 10
Lyrics 11
Musicianship (including producing) 11
Vocals 11
Performance (including appearance) 12
Total 55
None of the runners up, Bob Marley Bob Dylan Ray Charles Keith Richards etc, would even hit 45.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-11 09:39 by superrevvy.
Correct, but Sinatra is pretty safe on 100 thanks to his Musicianship, Vocal and Performance, second comes Presley on 95....
2 1 2 0
Sinatra
Composition 4 (this is all extra credit for being smart about song selection)
Lyrics 4 (ditto)
Musicianship (including producing) 9 (all extra credit for nelson riddle etc)
Vocals 12
Performance (including appearance) 10
Total 39
Presley
Composition 2 (this is all extra credit for being not-so-smart about song selection
except right at the beginning)
Lyrics 2 (ditto)
Musicianship (including producing) 6
Vocals 11
Performance (including appearance) 13 (mostly for his dazzling beauty)
Total 34
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-11 10:57 by superrevvy.
And that makes Mick Jagger a bigger musical entertainer than Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley....
2 1 2 0
Cool picture, superevvy, thanks.
Anybody, who's in a position to do so, please cares to name 'em all? From top left to bottom right? That'd be great. Thanks once again.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-11 17:45 by dead.flowers.
thanks, i did it on another thread with input from others that caused me to
trade out about 10 names as a result of the discussion. all the controversy on
these lists are about the 10 names on either side of the cutoff.
and it was a slightly different task, not who was the greatest, that seemed too
hard to get too much concensus on, but rather who was the most "iconic" which
is slightly easier to judge on a US/UK basis. "iconic" being a varying imprecise
mixture of "famous" and "influential", with a goal of trying to represent
various kinds of music adequately.
anyway:
hank, joey, prince, nat, aretha, muddy, john, duke, angus, paul, brian
billie, bruce, bob, jimi, barbra, woody, miles, ella, kurt, the
bb, ray, louie, chuck, robert, buddy, keith, michael, marshall, tammy
willie, stevie, little, mick, elvis, johnny, frank, jerry, tina, cole
james, patsy, bob, janis, david, phil, jimmy, reginald, madge
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-11 18:10 by superrevvy.
Here we go. Thanks so much.
Easily. They were performers only
I agree Bliss. DYlan is a God, a genius. But when you say, 'musical artist' there has to be more of a musical versatility. And that's not a denouncement of him as an artist...
This question is purely subjective, but I would have to say the Beatles, collectively.
And maybe Brian Wilson, Sly Stone....
Aretha.
Whereas Mick Jagger was a...composer? Want to check on the "drivel" that Jagger himself wrote???
I liked the idea on the first page of ranking artists' various abilities on a scale of 1-10, to get an aggregate score.
thanks. that is the only way to do this, ask any teacher. and we dont need a 11 for exceptional cause everyone we are discussing IS exceptional one way or another...
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
Rollin' Stoner
()
Date: September 10, 2012 22:49
G.G. Allin & Haydn
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: September 10, 2012 22:56
Bob Dylan
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
mickschix
()
Date: September 11, 2012 01:58
Well, OK, I am very biased and I'd vote for Mick but I must say I'm impressed that you'd mention Joni Mitchell because she belongs in the top 20 of everyone's list, IMO.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
superrevvy
()
Date: September 11, 2012 09:38
Quote
Bliss
I liked the idea on the first page of ranking artists' various abilities on a scale of 1-10, to get an aggregate score.
I think that in the case of exceptional ability in a particular category, an artist should be given an extra point., eg, Mick Jagger gets an extra point as a performer; Bob Dylan gets an extra point for his lyrics. And an additional point could be given to an artist for being truly groundbreaking.
Categories
Composition
Lyrics
Musicianship
Vocals
Performance (including appearance)
Okay I'll play by these rules instead of my own. On a scale of 1-10 with 11
possible for extraordinary achievement...
Mick Jagger
Composition 10
Lyrics 11
Musicianship (including producing) 11
Vocals 11
Performance (including appearance) 12
Total 55
None of the runners up, Bob Marley Bob Dylan Ray Charles Keith Richards etc, would even hit 45.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-11 09:39 by superrevvy.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: September 11, 2012 09:47
Quote
superrevvyQuote
Bliss
I liked the idea on the first page of ranking artists' various abilities on a scale of 1-10, to get an aggregate score.
I think that in the case of exceptional ability in a particular category, an artist should be given an extra point., eg, Mick Jagger gets an extra point as a performer; Bob Dylan gets an extra point for his lyrics. And an additional point could be given to an artist for being truly groundbreaking.
Categories
Composition
Lyrics
Musicianship
Vocals
Performance (including appearance)
Okay I'll play by these rules instead of my own. On a scale of 1-10 with 11
possible for extraordinary achievement...
Mick Jagger
Composition 10
Lyrics 11
Musicianship (including producing) 11
Vocals 11
Performance (including appearance) 12
Total 55
None of the runners up, Bob Marley Bob Dylan Ray Charles Keith Richards etc, would even hit 45.
Correct, but Sinatra is pretty safe on 100 thanks to his Musicianship, Vocal and Performance, second comes Presley on 95....
2 1 2 0
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
superrevvy
()
Date: September 11, 2012 10:45
Quote
Come OnQuote
superrevvy
Mick Jagger
Composition 10
Lyrics 11
Musicianship (including producing) 11
Vocals 11
Performance (including appearance) 12
Total 55
None of the runners up, Bob Marley Bob Dylan Ray Charles Keith Richards etc, would even hit 45.
Correct, but Sinatra is pretty safe on 100 thanks to his Musicianship, Vocal and Performance, second comes Presley on 95....
Sinatra
Composition 4 (this is all extra credit for being smart about song selection)
Lyrics 4 (ditto)
Musicianship (including producing) 9 (all extra credit for nelson riddle etc)
Vocals 12
Performance (including appearance) 10
Total 39
Presley
Composition 2 (this is all extra credit for being not-so-smart about song selection
except right at the beginning)
Lyrics 2 (ditto)
Musicianship (including producing) 6
Vocals 11
Performance (including appearance) 13 (mostly for his dazzling beauty)
Total 34
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-11 10:57 by superrevvy.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: September 11, 2012 11:06
And that makes Mick Jagger a bigger musical entertainer than Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley....2 1 2 0
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
superrevvy
()
Date: September 11, 2012 11:51
well jagger is much more important than either presley or sinatra
but i agree that bliss's system is biased against figures like presley and
sinatra because of its heavy emphasis on composition lyrics and musicianship
what bliss has done is essentially reduce a 15-dimensional art form down to
5 dimensions, so distortions are inevitable
that's why earlier in this thread i argued the measure should be "enduring
positive cultural impact", a standard which embraces all 15 dimensions, and
a standard under which presley and sinatra would do much better.
but also, of course, under the 15-dimensional system, not only presley and
sinatra do better. jagger's lead becomes even more huge.
but i agree that bliss's system is biased against figures like presley and
sinatra because of its heavy emphasis on composition lyrics and musicianship
what bliss has done is essentially reduce a 15-dimensional art form down to
5 dimensions, so distortions are inevitable
that's why earlier in this thread i argued the measure should be "enduring
positive cultural impact", a standard which embraces all 15 dimensions, and
a standard under which presley and sinatra would do much better.
but also, of course, under the 15-dimensional system, not only presley and
sinatra do better. jagger's lead becomes even more huge.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: September 11, 2012 12:02
OK.. OK... what we need is a thought experiment...
If Sinatra, Jagger and Bowie are all in a closed box and there is a flask of poisonious gas in there as well... after a while they all simultaneously the greatest artists of all time or not the greatest artists of all time.
Now I hope that has cleared it up.
If Sinatra, Jagger and Bowie are all in a closed box and there is a flask of poisonious gas in there as well... after a while they all simultaneously the greatest artists of all time or not the greatest artists of all time.
Now I hope that has cleared it up.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
HerMajestyBrenda
()
Date: September 11, 2012 12:10
Bob Dylan is evidently greater than any of those. I mean, clearly. Seriously.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: September 11, 2012 12:12
Dylan isn't in the box.
Sorry.
Actually... it is theoretically possible that Dylan is in the box and outside it at the same time though.
Hmm.. this changes things.
Sorry.
Actually... it is theoretically possible that Dylan is in the box and outside it at the same time though.
Hmm.. this changes things.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: September 11, 2012 13:51
What do you think it could be that McCartney, Harrison and Dylan saw it as the highest of honor and the greatest recognition of their composing came when Sinatra or Presley sang their songs on their discs?
Frank Elvis Bing and Tony
2 1 2 0
Frank Elvis Bing and Tony
2 1 2 0
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
Ladykiller
()
Date: September 11, 2012 14:56
Freddie Mercury & Queen
X Japan
Diana Ross
Journey
X Japan
Diana Ross
Journey
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
mickscarey
()
Date: September 11, 2012 15:27
THE ROLLING STONES
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
Youngie
()
Date: September 11, 2012 17:17
Quote
superrevvy
well jagger is much more important than either presley or sinatra
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
dead.flowers
()
Date: September 11, 2012 17:44
Quote
superrevvy
Jagger is the most important culturally, because of his strength in all the
mentioned categories plus additional categories like fashion and staging and dance
and conceptual art and media manipulation and fan manipulation and spiritual
enlightenment and emotional health and business success, but all of the artists on
the following poster are greater than Mick in some or at least one of the
categories and so deserve at least honorable mention.
Cool picture, superevvy, thanks.
Anybody, who's in a position to do so, please cares to name 'em all? From top left to bottom right? That'd be great. Thanks once again.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-11 17:45 by dead.flowers.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
superrevvy
()
Date: September 11, 2012 18:07
Quote
dead.flowers
Cool picture, superevvy, thanks.
Anybody, who's in a position to do so, please cares to name 'em all? From top left to bottom right? That'd be great. Thanks once again.
thanks, i did it on another thread with input from others that caused me to
trade out about 10 names as a result of the discussion. all the controversy on
these lists are about the 10 names on either side of the cutoff.
and it was a slightly different task, not who was the greatest, that seemed too
hard to get too much concensus on, but rather who was the most "iconic" which
is slightly easier to judge on a US/UK basis. "iconic" being a varying imprecise
mixture of "famous" and "influential", with a goal of trying to represent
various kinds of music adequately.
anyway:
hank, joey, prince, nat, aretha, muddy, john, duke, angus, paul, brian
billie, bruce, bob, jimi, barbra, woody, miles, ella, kurt, the
bb, ray, louie, chuck, robert, buddy, keith, michael, marshall, tammy
willie, stevie, little, mick, elvis, johnny, frank, jerry, tina, cole
james, patsy, bob, janis, david, phil, jimmy, reginald, madge
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-11 18:10 by superrevvy.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
dead.flowers
()
Date: September 11, 2012 18:15
Quote
superrevvy
anyway:
hank, joey, prince, nat, aretha, muddy, john, duke, angus, paul, brian
billie, bruce, bob, jimi, barbra, woody, miles, ella, kurt, the
bb, ray, louie, chuck, robert, buddy, keith, michael, marshall, tammy
willie, stevie, little, mick, elvis, johnny, frank, jerry, tina, cole
james, patsy, bob, janis, david, phil, jimmy, reginald, madge
Here we go. Thanks so much.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: September 11, 2012 18:18
In terms of songwriting and general impact, then it has to be Dylan. He was influencing his contemporaries as well as later going on to be an important figure for future generations.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
superrevvy
()
Date: September 11, 2012 18:26
regarding the 21st century so far, oh my god, what a different kind of list
it would be. no instrumentalists, no band members, the stars at best lyricists not
too much for composing, which is handled by teams, hardly any males except
a few rappers, practically all divas all the time, most with just one name
beyonce, gaga, rihanna, adelle, katy perry, that's almost 50% of record sales
and airplay right there. add in pink and fergie and gwen stephanie maybe. sheesh.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-11 18:28 by superrevvy.
it would be. no instrumentalists, no band members, the stars at best lyricists not
too much for composing, which is handled by teams, hardly any males except
a few rappers, practically all divas all the time, most with just one name
beyonce, gaga, rihanna, adelle, katy perry, that's almost 50% of record sales
and airplay right there. add in pink and fergie and gwen stephanie maybe. sheesh.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-11 18:28 by superrevvy.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
mickscarey
()
Date: September 11, 2012 19:05
Quote
YoungieQuote
superrevvy
well jagger is much more important than either presley or sinatra
Easily. They were performers only
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
doubledoor
()
Date: September 11, 2012 19:21
I like Jagger the best too, but without Elvis first, Beatles second, The Rolling Stones would be a neighborhood novelty act never heard of. Because Rock and Roll would not have become the mega popular sensation those 2 acts made it. The word Important belongs to the seminal acts.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: September 11, 2012 19:24
Quote
BlissQuote
GazzaQuote
Bliss
Dylan excels as a lyricist but hardly as a vocalist, his compositions aren't all that great, guitar playing is average, and he is not visually exciting.
The credibility of this thread is shot to f**k in the space of six words.
Sorry to upset the Dylan diehard fans here, but Dylan's musical compositions - not his lyrics - are not exceptionally beautiful, sophisticated or original compared to those of other musicians.
He is an original artist, a poet, and revolutionary for his time, and deserves all credit for that.
I agree Bliss. DYlan is a God, a genius. But when you say, 'musical artist' there has to be more of a musical versatility. And that's not a denouncement of him as an artist...
This question is purely subjective, but I would have to say the Beatles, collectively.
And maybe Brian Wilson, Sly Stone....
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: September 11, 2012 19:26
Quote
superrevvyQuote
jamesfdouglasQuote
superrevvy
Jagger is the most important culturally, because of his strength in all the
mentioned categories plus additional categories like fashion and staging and dance
and conceptual art and media manipulation and fan manipulation and spiritual
enlightenment and emotional health and business success, but all of the artists on
the following poster are greater than Mick in some or at least one of the
categories and so deserve at least honorable mention.
Jagger?
Bull$#!t.
It's BOB MARLEY.
(shakes head at the whiteness of this forum)
Hmm. My list of 50 was quite black, so I don't really like being lumped in with
your perception of nearly everybody else on this list.
And of course there's more than a touch of subjectivity in any such discussion,
so I always try to whittle it down a bit by further defining "greatness" to
mean "enduring positive cultural impact", which of course is quite different
from "cultural impact" or "dollars generated" or "popularity" and even
significantly different from "artistic brilliance", any of which would produce
a somewhat different ranking.
So, using my criteria "enduring positive cultural impact", I'd rank the top 15 something like this:
1. Mick Jagger
2. Bob Marley
3. Louie Armstrong
4. Robert Johnson/Muddy Waters (artificial pairing necessary to properly represent the blues).
5. E Presley/C Berry/L Richard/JL Lewis (grouped to properly represent early
rock n roll)
6. Keith Richards
7. Bob Dylan
8. H Williams/P Cline/J Cash (grouped to properly represent country)
9. Ray Charles
10. James Brown
11. J Lennon/P McCartney (grouped to properly represent the Beatles)
12. Frank Sinatra
13. Phil Spector
14. Jimmy Page
15. Madonna
Note: Female popular singers, collectively, are extraordinarily influential in
determining cultural norms, but rarely if ever have had extraordinary impact
individually. I think the biggest exception is Madonna, who would have easily
made the list of the Top 10 for just "cultural impact". But since the criteria
was "enduring positive" cultural impact, I don't rank her quite as high.
Aretha.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
ManuelStones
()
Date: September 11, 2012 20:27
Juan Luis Guerra
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
Pietro
()
Date: September 11, 2012 20:44
Louis Armstrong -- Can't imagine 20th Century music without him. He popularized jazz.
Muddy Waters -- Can't imagine the Rolling Stones or rock and roll without him. If you listen closely to all rock and roll, he's there in the background.
Muddy Waters -- Can't imagine the Rolling Stones or rock and roll without him. If you listen closely to all rock and roll, he's there in the background.
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
Youngie
()
Date: September 11, 2012 21:16
Quote
mickscarey
Easily. They were performers only
Whereas Mick Jagger was a...composer? Want to check on the "drivel" that Jagger himself wrote???
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: September 11, 2012 23:35
Glenn Gould : has anyone mentioned him yet?
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
carlostones10
()
Date: September 11, 2012 23:38
me
Re: Who is really the greatest musical artist?
Posted by:
6853
()
Date: September 12, 2012 00:16
Quote
Bliss
Back on track....that's good. As your hostess in this thread, it's my job to keep things from going off the rails.
I liked the idea on the first page of ranking artists' various abilities on a scale of 1-10, to get an aggregate score.
I think that in the case of exceptional ability in a particular category, an artist should be given an extra point., eg, Mick Jagger gets an extra point as a performer; Bob Dylan gets an extra point for his lyrics. And an additional point could be given to an artist for being truly groundbreaking.
Categories
Composition
Lyrics
Musicianship
Vocals
Performance (including appearance)
I liked the idea on the first page of ranking artists' various abilities on a scale of 1-10, to get an aggregate score.
thanks. that is the only way to do this, ask any teacher. and we dont need a 11 for exceptional cause everyone we are discussing IS exceptional one way or another...
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