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KeylockSanchezandCo
As far as I know, I have never seen any signed papers between Jones and the Stones concerning the former's leaving the band and the implied payments. Do they exist? I don't know. Terry Rawlings' book does not contain copies of such documents, if they exist.
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KeylockSanchezandCo
As far as I know, I have never seen any signed papers between Jones and the Stones concerning the former's leaving the band and the implied payments. Do they exist? I don't know. Terry Rawlings' book does not contain copies of such documents, if they exist.
But we know there was a payment agreement. A severance payment of 100,000 pounds, followed by payments totaling 20,000 pounds per year for as long as the band would exist. No one has officially disputed these claims, and one would imagine there would have been paperwork drawn up on the matter. My suggestion would be to call, write or email ABKCO. They will likely not produce the documents themselves or even copies, but perhaps they can at least confirm their existence. Tell them you are working on a Stones-related book project. It seemed to work for terry Rawlings.
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KeylockSanchezandCo
As far as I know, I have never seen any signed papers between Jones and the Stones concerning the former's leaving the band and the implied payments. Do they exist? I don't know. Terry Rawlings' book does not contain copies of such documents, if they exist.
But we know there was a payment agreement. A severance payment of 100,000 pounds, followed by payments totaling 20,000 pounds per year for as long as the band would exist. No one has officially disputed these claims, and one would imagine there would have been paperwork drawn up on the matter. My suggestion would be to call, write or email ABKCO. They will likely not produce the documents themselves or even copies, but perhaps they can at least confirm their existence. Tell them you are working on a Stones-related book project. It seemed to work for terry Rawlings.
Do you think Trevor Hobley looked into this at all? You would think his investigation would have examined every detail in the months leading up to Brian's death. You may want to go back to page 2 in this thread and see Mock's comments on this money and why Klein may not of wanted to pay it quickly or maybe not at all!
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Bassid6
Can someone show me the docs on that whole thing? Where does it say he was due a payment on 3 July? I have never gotten a straight answer on that, no matter how many times I had enquired. That does not exist. If you have something different, then show me it!
As far as I know, he just died in the pool because he was just being "Brian". Yeah?
July 3 was the first Monday
Honest, Stonesnow (or anyone for that matter), I'm not trying to start a fight here, but July 3rd, 1969 was a Thursday, not a Monday.
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"Doctor please, some more men please,
To Cotchford Farm, out by the pool...
What a drag it is they couldn't revive him"
Brian Jones 2/28/42 - 7/2/69
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Bassid6
Can someone show me the docs on that whole thing? Where does it say he was due a payment on 3 July? I have never gotten a straight answer on that, no matter how many times I had enquired. That does not exist. If you have something different, then show me it!
As far as I know, he just died in the pool because he was just being "Brian". Yeah?
July 3 was the first Monday
Honest, Stonesnow (or anyone for that matter), I'm not trying to start a fight here, but July 3rd, 1969 was a Thursday, not a Monday.
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Was it? OK, thanks for the correction. I was weeks away from my third birthday at the time, so details like that are hazy. I'm still thinking of emailing ABKCO--or better yet, Terry Rawlings himself! I wonder if he could confirm where he got the info. Still, the fact remains that Brian died very shortly before his payment agreement was due to take effect.
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stonesnow
Here is a Crimewatch clip on the Frank Thorogood "snapped" theory, where they also make mention of the payment agreement. Perhaps they were just referencing Rawlings' book, but if Crimewatch were putting false information out there about the existence of a payment agreement for Brian you'd think that someone from The Stones' camp or ABKCO would correct them on that. Likewise with Terry Rawlings. So far, he has yet to have been sued by Allen Klein or ABKCO, and Klein had 15 years to do so up until his death.
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stonesnow
Here is a Crimewatch clip on the Frank Thorogood "snapped" theory, where they also make mention of the payment agreement. Perhaps they were just referencing Rawlings' book, but if Crimewatch were putting false information out there about the existence of a payment agreement for Brian you'd think that someone from The Stones' camp or ABKCO would correct them on that. Likewise with Terry Rawlings. So far, he has yet to have been sued by Allen Klein or ABKCO, and Klein had 15 years to do so up until his death.
Exactly!! ITA!!
And yet, no one has come forward ...
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stonesnow
Here is a Crimewatch clip on the Frank Thorogood "snapped" theory, where they also make mention of the payment agreement. Perhaps they were just referencing Rawlings' book, but if Crimewatch were putting false information out there about the existence of a payment agreement for Brian you'd think that someone from The Stones' camp or ABKCO would correct them on that. Likewise with Terry Rawlings. So far, he has yet to have been sued by Allen Klein or ABKCO, and Klein had 15 years to do so up until his death.
Exactly!! ITA!!
And yet, no one has come forward ...
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It's been a few years since I read Rawlings' book. I'll have to dig it out again and look up the info about the payment agreement, but I do recall that in the book July 3 was mentioned as the date it was to begin. And actually, that would make more sense than a Monday, because Friday was payday in Britain. I recall from Phelge's Nankering book that he could not accompany The Stones on their long journeys up north for their Friday gigs, because to leave early enough for that he would have had to have missed collecting his paycheck at work that day....
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nick
I have to be honest. If I was at that pool and something happened to Brian, I'd clear the hell out of there before any cops got there. Considering that it can take a little as tablespoon of water on the lungs to drown, this could be the Misadventure the police officially ruled it as. Think about it, Tom Keylock was supposed to be looking after him. If i'm him im not letting the police try to twist my words and put a manslaughter charge on me. If im Frank, I'm the first one out of there and fast because I dont like Brian and I'm the likely suspect. If I'm any of those workers and I got any criminal charges even a pot possesion, the police look at you like scum and you're a suspect. I really don't want to be near police if I walked off with stuff from Brian's house simply so I don't get in trouble for that alone. There could never ever be a break in this crime. With this big conversation here and the Brian Jones messageboards that have debated at length about this, nothing concrete is ever achieved to prove or disprove anything. I believe that the closest they could have to come to getting a break in the case would had been to investigate further the Hotel threat to that other Brian Jones and the beating of his driver. You ain't gonna get anything more EVER out of the group of people at Brian's house. Too many unsavory characters there.
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nick
I'm simply giving a point of view from a scumbag thinking mind like myself.
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nick
I'm simply giving a point of view from a scumbag thinking mind like myself.
I knew you'd say that!
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Erik_Snow
Oops, sorry, no I was wrong there. It wasn't you.
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Bassid6
Me? Bitter? Oh goodness, where did you ever get that idea??
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Bassid6
Was I there when Brian died?
No. I was a 4 month old baby and living in the United States.
Were you there when Brian died?
I highly doubt that, Sir or Madam. How would you know how he died, then?
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stonesnow
Mock, thanks so much for your thoughtful response. As you recall, I used to present the argument that the likely murder of Brian was carried out at the behest of the Stones themselves (Keith and Mick). [...] Since Keylock worked for The Stones and Keith in particular, I assumed a chain of command leading back to Keith, mainly because in latter-day interviews Keith made it so easy to assume as such, what with his cold, dismissive tone toward Brian.
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stonesnow
I even stopped listening to The Stones for a couple of years out of righteous indignation (I listened to The Pretty Things to fill the void). But of course as Keith himself remarked to Mick on the topic of the latter's attempt to break away from The Stones with a solo career, "You can't toss away something like The Rolling Stones."
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stonesnow
In recent years, I have changed my view and am now in agreement with the view that you hold, that the murder was carried out at the behest of Allen Klein. It would make sense in that he would save the sum of money he would have had to pay out per the terms of Brian's dismissal, because with Klein money was not only everything, it was the only thing that mattered. It was obviously premeditated, in the way that Keylock orchestrated the press on the following day and in the way Thorogood and his builders made off with Brian's possessions that same day--they did it because they knew they were going to be protected. No way was Thorogood's 'manslaughter' an accident of the moment--the theft of Brian's possessions alone speaks volumes of the deep contempt they held for him, not to mention a certain cold-bloodedness on their part.
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stonesnow
Also, I recall posting on LARS a newspaper story, which I can't locate online these days, where Brian's handyman mentions that there was no 'party' that night. The handyman was a retired policeman [perhaps you recall the man's name?] who states that he was preparing to leave work at Cotchford that night and called up to the second floor where Brian was, asking him if he would be needing anything else, and that Brian had answered, in perfect sobriety, that no, he would be fine and would see him tomorrow. The handyman gives the time of this exchange as ten minutes past ten--hardly time enough for Brian to get so out of it on drugs and alcohol as to be drowning in his own pool twenty minutes, or an hour and twenty minutes, later....
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TheDailyBuzzherd
Of all the theories that abound, the Klein / Keylock connection seems most plausible.
Still, I'm sure even Klein would grin at the notion Jones could / would have presented a tight-locked legal case for screwing with The Stones machine in any way.
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stonesnow
Hope you'll post here again soon, Mock. Since LARS and its successor site are defunct, are you posting on any other boards as well?
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stonesnow
Looking forward to further discussions with you.
With best regards,
stonesnow
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rob51
...Tom Keylock killed him! He was afterall the only "mombster" type person involved with the band at the time and thereby the only one capable in the bands circle to actually commit such an act of brutality, period...
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stonesnow
The carpet-fitter's name was Dave Gibson by the way. Thank you again for providing the link to the article, as it certainly disputes the popular notion that Brian was a casualty of his own excess.
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stonesnow
When you post here again I hope you will address the matter of the payout sum that was due Brian and the exact calendar date when this payment agreement was set to commence. [...] Rawlings in his book mentions the payout to Brian starting on July 4. [...] Some posters here dispute that there was such a payout agreement to Brian because they've never seen the contract and they doubt that Terry Rawlings has.
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stonesrule
Perhaps I missed something here.
Have any of you spoken to members of his family, his lawyers, accountants, seen his tax records?
Where is the PROOF?
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nick
I keep telling you the people who did it and saw it are going to take it to the grave. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW!!! Take it from a scumbag like me, Brian Jones is not and never was worth getting in trouble over. Mock Jogger keeps firing up the thread and everybodys conflicting opinions start all over again. It ridiculous and foolish to keep this up. There will never be any further proof of anything and IT WILL stay that way always and forever. 3 different Brian Jones mesg boards, all the discussion here for what, 15years now and no one has ever even scratched the surface to prove or disprove it. When does the debate end??? It is so silly at this point that anyone could say they killed Brian and that person would not be believed. It's a perfect crime, the killer will never be caught and the killer has takin in 15-20 Stones concerts since.