Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
HighwireC

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Yes but the coffee is sold, the jar has to be refilled. If I share a song with you the song is still there. There is a possible lack of profit, the possibility that you would have bought a copy of the song.

Are you really talking about sharing a song? No one would blame you when you'll listen to a bought copy of a song (and only that's what you have gotten in the shop, the original songs belongs still to his owner) together with a friend at home.

But if you'll give your friend a selfmade (digital) copy from that song, so he/she can listen to it with his/her friends otherwise, and you still use the song for your own, you'll have problems with the lawyer ...

There is no problem to sell used songs. But to sell or give away some copys from your copy you still own will be against the law, because you down't own the right to copy them: the copyright.

Right?

But if I dont give or sell a copy of the song, just have it on my computer and let others have access to my computer, share my computer and whats on it it's not stealing. I see the copyright problem but I think it's just something that will change because the technology is here and will just get better.

Quote
andrewt
Another thing to consider is that for most of our history, being a musician was not a career choice, and was rarely rewarded with a lot of material gain. Perhaps the time from the late 50's to the early 00's was merely a blip, an aberration. The whole notion of a music industry is a relatively recent one, and perhaps it's golden age has come and gone. Maybe Promo Rep or Documentary Filmmaker will become a quaint outdated job like Telephone Operator or Bathroom Attendant. Maybe,just maybe, this shock to the business model will have the effect of creating less, but more relevant and creative music, because the posers will be off trying to develop video games or shopping apps.I'm not arguing that this is way things are supposed to be, but it's worth considering that times just change.

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
liddas

Quote
Naturalust
This pretty much sums it up for me. From The Trichordist - Artists for an Ethical Internet. A provacative read in any case. peace

[thetrichordist.wordpress.com]

Come on, these are cheap arguments that intentionally avoid the true subject of the discussion.

First, because they are based on the assumption that copyright laws, as they are, are the ONLY solution, that there is no other option if you want to save the artist. And the reference to the two friends that shot themselves to support this assumption is very simply bad taste.

Second because they show that the author knows nothing about the so called free culture movement, or, worse, is willingfully misrepresenting their positions. Read this:

[www.free-culture.cc]

its a litte out dated, but still a good read. Once you did, you will see that the free culture movement does not say what Mr Lowery's represents in his letter.

Quite stupid arguments as well. Sure buying a song from the internet is easy as your A B C, provided you have a credit card. How many teenagers have a credit card?

As noted above, free culture is a good thing. One may argue that also to be able to walk on the moon is a good thing, but this is no good reason to allow everybody a free tiket on the next expediton.

Well, the point is that today there are ways to make free culture affordable - both for the people and the atists.

This is the true argument that should be discussed.

To be honest, there is one thing that Mr Lowery says that is true: considering the costs of hardware and connection digital music costs a lot (free or not). To the point that it is cheaper to buy a CD (well, the oldies, at least) rather than the inferior quality mp3 from the internet.

C

liddas, you are obviously not trying to make a living in the music industry. This is the artists best stand and until I see the value put on the efforts of artists that allows them to create for us all, your arguments and discussions of free culture (ie free media) hold little weight.

I'm not sure what you do for a living but imagine that overnight because of some geek engineer's technological advancement, your wages or income were vanished, and your goods or services were being stolen and given away for free.

Law is law, there for a hopefully well debated reason and Copyright law, althought somewhat outdated, is still what has made Keith and Mick what they are today, whatever that is. I am a fan and willing to pay for what I believe in. Taking it for free in the name of free culture just doesn't sit right with me. peace

Quote
jamesfdouglas

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
liddas

Quote
Naturalust
This pretty much sums it up for me. From The Trichordist - Artists for an Ethical Internet. A provacative read in any case. peace

[thetrichordist.wordpress.com]

Come on, these are cheap arguments that intentionally avoid the true subject of the discussion.

First, because they are based on the assumption that copyright laws, as they are, are the ONLY solution, that there is no other option if you want to save the artist. And the reference to the two friends that shot themselves to support this assumption is very simply bad taste.

Second because they show that the author knows nothing about the so called free culture movement, or, worse, is willingfully misrepresenting their positions. Read this:

[www.free-culture.cc]

its a litte out dated, but still a good read. Once you did, you will see that the free culture movement does not say what Mr Lowery's represents in his letter.

Quite stupid arguments as well. Sure buying a song from the internet is easy as your A B C, provided you have a credit card. How many teenagers have a credit card?

As noted above, free culture is a good thing. One may argue that also to be able to walk on the moon is a good thing, but this is no good reason to allow everybody a free tiket on the next expediton.

Well, the point is that today there are ways to make free culture affordable - both for the people and the atists.

This is the true argument that should be discussed.

To be honest, there is one thing that Mr Lowery says that is true: considering the costs of hardware and connection digital music costs a lot (free or not). To the point that it is cheaper to buy a CD (well, the oldies, at least) rather than the inferior quality mp3 from the internet.

C

liddas, you are obviously not trying to make a living in the music industry. This is the artists best stand and until I see the value put on the efforts of artists that allows them to create for us all, your arguments and discussions of free culture (ie free media) hold little weight.

I'm not sure what you do for a living but imagine that overnight because of some geek engineer's technological advancement, your wages or income were vanished, and your goods or services were being stolen and given away for free.

Law is law, there for a hopefully well debated reason and Copyright law, althought somewhat outdated, is still what has made Keith and Mick what they are today, whatever that is. I am a fan and willing to pay for what I believe in. Taking it for free in the name of free culture just doesn't sit right with me. peace

THANK YOU

That's exactly it. If you put a song on any device of yours that you didn't pay for, you are a thief. Plain and simple. You are also costing people their jobs in the music and publishing industry. I've read post after post here of absolute FOOLS feeling justified for whatever reason, or calling it "sharing".

Making recordings is NOT FREE.
Promoting new music is NOT FREE.
Getting into radio rotation is NOT FREE.
Why are YOU so special that you should take something that isn't yours FOR FREE?
Why is it okay to participate in an activity that has ALREADY cost the music industry countless jobs????

You morons who feel this way, I hope karma bites you all on the ass. Hard. May your financial portfolios take a huge hit. May you not be able to retire comfortably. May you not be able to take care of your loved ones.

Quote
StonesTod

Quote
jamesfdouglas

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
liddas

Quote
Naturalust
This pretty much sums it up for me. From The Trichordist - Artists for an Ethical Internet. A provacative read in any case. peace

[thetrichordist.wordpress.com]

Come on, these are cheap arguments that intentionally avoid the true subject of the discussion.

First, because they are based on the assumption that copyright laws, as they are, are the ONLY solution, that there is no other option if you want to save the artist. And the reference to the two friends that shot themselves to support this assumption is very simply bad taste.

Second because they show that the author knows nothing about the so called free culture movement, or, worse, is willingfully misrepresenting their positions. Read this:

[www.free-culture.cc]

its a litte out dated, but still a good read. Once you did, you will see that the free culture movement does not say what Mr Lowery's represents in his letter.

Quite stupid arguments as well. Sure buying a song from the internet is easy as your A B C, provided you have a credit card. How many teenagers have a credit card?

As noted above, free culture is a good thing. One may argue that also to be able to walk on the moon is a good thing, but this is no good reason to allow everybody a free tiket on the next expediton.

Well, the point is that today there are ways to make free culture affordable - both for the people and the atists.

This is the true argument that should be discussed.

To be honest, there is one thing that Mr Lowery says that is true: considering the costs of hardware and connection digital music costs a lot (free or not). To the point that it is cheaper to buy a CD (well, the oldies, at least) rather than the inferior quality mp3 from the internet.

C

liddas, you are obviously not trying to make a living in the music industry. This is the artists best stand and until I see the value put on the efforts of artists that allows them to create for us all, your arguments and discussions of free culture (ie free media) hold little weight.

I'm not sure what you do for a living but imagine that overnight because of some geek engineer's technological advancement, your wages or income were vanished, and your goods or services were being stolen and given away for free.

Law is law, there for a hopefully well debated reason and Copyright law, althought somewhat outdated, is still what has made Keith and Mick what they are today, whatever that is. I am a fan and willing to pay for what I believe in. Taking it for free in the name of free culture just doesn't sit right with me. peace

THANK YOU

That's exactly it. If you put a song on any device of yours that you didn't pay for, you are a thief. Plain and simple. You are also costing people their jobs in the music and publishing industry. I've read post after post here of absolute FOOLS feeling justified for whatever reason, or calling it "sharing".

Making recordings is NOT FREE.
Promoting new music is NOT FREE.
Getting into radio rotation is NOT FREE.
Why are YOU so special that you should take something that isn't yours FOR FREE?
Why is it okay to participate in an activity that has ALREADY cost the music industry countless jobs????

You morons who feel this way, I hope karma bites you all on the ass. Hard. May your financial portfolios take a huge hit. May you not be able to retire comfortably. May you not be able to take care of your loved ones.

can i still have a beer once in ahwile?

Quote
Rockman

Quote
jamesfdouglas


THANK YOU

That's exactly it. If you put a song on any device of yours that you didn't pay for, you are a thief. Plain and simple. You are also costing people their jobs in the music and publishing industry. I've read post after post here of absolute FOOLS feeling justified for whatever reason, or calling it "sharing".

Making recordings is NOT FREE.
Promoting new music is NOT FREE.
Getting into radio rotation is NOT FREE.
Why are YOU so special that you should take something that isn't yours FOR FREE?
Why is it okay to participate in an activity that has ALREADY cost the music industry countless jobs????

You morons who feel this way, I hope karma bites you all on the ass. Hard. May your financial portfolios take a huge hit. May you not be able to retire comfortably. May you not be able to take care of your loved ones.

Quote
camper88
By the way, calling folks morons . . . probably not going to help your case.

Quote
camper88

Quote
jamesfdouglas


THANK YOU

That's exactly it. If you put a song on any device of yours that you didn't pay for, you are a thief. Plain and simple. You are also costing people their jobs in the music and publishing industry. I've read post after post here of absolute FOOLS feeling justified for whatever reason, or calling it "sharing".

Making recordings is NOT FREE.
Promoting new music is NOT FREE.
Getting into radio rotation is NOT FREE.
Why are YOU so special that you should take something that isn't yours FOR FREE?
Why is it okay to participate in an activity that has ALREADY cost the music industry countless jobs????

You morons who feel this way, I hope karma bites you all on the ass. Hard. May your financial portfolios take a huge hit. May you not be able to retire comfortably. May you not be able to take care of your loved ones.

JFD,

Do you recognize no distinction between theft and copyright infringement? They are significantly different concepts and you continue to confuse or conflate one with the other.
Help me out by taking the following quiz:

1. I visit the Louvre and take a picture of the Mona Lisa, that make me . . .
A) a thief B ) A copyright infringer, or C) an Art Lover

2. I post a copy of the cover of an album on my website [www.iorr.org]
and that makes me
A) a thief B ) A copyright infringer, or C) a Stones lover

3. I cut and paste or post a copy of an article from a magazine to make my point in an argument, that makes me . . .
A) a thief B ) A copyright infringer, or C) The one, the only, Rockman!!!

By the way, calling folks morons . . . probably not going to help your case.

Quote
jamesfdouglas


That's exactly it. If you put a song on any device of yours that you didn't pay for, you are a thief. Plain and simple. You are also costing people their jobs in the music and publishing industry. I've read post after post here of absolute FOOLS feeling justified for whatever reason, or calling it "sharing".

Making recordings is NOT FREE.
Promoting new music is NOT FREE.
Getting into radio rotation is NOT FREE.
Why are YOU so special that you should take something that isn't yours FOR FREE?
Why is it okay to participate in an activity that has ALREADY cost the music industry countless jobs????

You morons who feel this way, I hope karma bites you all on the ass. Hard. May your financial portfolios take a huge hit. May you not be able to retire comfortably. May you not be able to take care of your loved ones.

Quote
jamesfdouglas

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
liddas

Quote
Naturalust
This pretty much sums it up for me. From The Trichordist - Artists for an Ethical Internet. A provacative read in any case. peace

[thetrichordist.wordpress.com]

Come on, these are cheap arguments that intentionally avoid the true subject of the discussion.

First, because they are based on the assumption that copyright laws, as they are, are the ONLY solution, that there is no other option if you want to save the artist. And the reference to the two friends that shot themselves to support this assumption is very simply bad taste.

Second because they show that the author knows nothing about the so called free culture movement, or, worse, is willingfully misrepresenting their positions. Read this:

[www.free-culture.cc]

its a litte out dated, but still a good read. Once you did, you will see that the free culture movement does not say what Mr Lowery's represents in his letter.

Quite stupid arguments as well. Sure buying a song from the internet is easy as your A B C, provided you have a credit card. How many teenagers have a credit card?

As noted above, free culture is a good thing. One may argue that also to be able to walk on the moon is a good thing, but this is no good reason to allow everybody a free tiket on the next expediton.

Well, the point is that today there are ways to make free culture affordable - both for the people and the atists.

This is the true argument that should be discussed.

To be honest, there is one thing that Mr Lowery says that is true: considering the costs of hardware and connection digital music costs a lot (free or not). To the point that it is cheaper to buy a CD (well, the oldies, at least) rather than the inferior quality mp3 from the internet.

C

liddas, you are obviously not trying to make a living in the music industry. This is the artists best stand and until I see the value put on the efforts of artists that allows them to create for us all, your arguments and discussions of free culture (ie free media) hold little weight.

I'm not sure what you do for a living but imagine that overnight because of some geek engineer's technological advancement, your wages or income were vanished, and your goods or services were being stolen and given away for free.

Law is law, there for a hopefully well debated reason and Copyright law, althought somewhat outdated, is still what has made Keith and Mick what they are today, whatever that is. I am a fan and willing to pay for what I believe in. Taking it for free in the name of free culture just doesn't sit right with me. peace

THANK YOU

That's exactly it. If you put a song on any device of yours that you didn't pay for, you are a thief. Plain and simple. You are also costing people their jobs in the music and publishing industry. I've read post after post here of absolute FOOLS feeling justified for whatever reason, or calling it "sharing".

Making recordings is NOT FREE.
Promoting new music is NOT FREE.
Getting into radio rotation is NOT FREE.
Why are YOU so special that you should take something that isn't yours FOR FREE?
Why is it okay to participate in an activity that has ALREADY cost the music industry countless jobs????

You morons who feel this way, I hope karma bites you all on the ass. Hard. May your financial portfolios take a huge hit. May you not be able to retire comfortably. May you not be able to take care of your loved ones.

Quote
Whale
The "you morons" of jamesfdouglas says it all.
I hate the music industry. For years they charged way too much.
And the music industry hates their customers: they are the "morons" according to the music industry. Giving them tough love whenever they feel like it. Suing people who link to content. Releasing stuff with only one or two new songs is still massively popular. Not releasing what people want to hear. And so on, and so forth.

Quote
StonesTod

Quote
Whale
The "you morons" of jamesfdouglas says it all.
I hate the music industry. For years they charged way too much.
And the music industry hates their customers: they are the "morons" according to the music industry. Giving them tough love whenever they feel like it. Suing people who link to content. Releasing stuff with only one or two new songs is still massively popular. Not releasing what people want to hear. And so on, and so forth.

i was still buying cds...but after reading this, i'm really upset now...it's full-on free illegal downloading henceforth! screw the bastids!!!!!!

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
StonesTod

Quote
Whale
The "you morons" of jamesfdouglas says it all.
I hate the music industry. For years they charged way too much.
And the music industry hates their customers: they are the "morons" according to the music industry. Giving them tough love whenever they feel like it. Suing people who link to content. Releasing stuff with only one or two new songs is still massively popular. Not releasing what people want to hear. And so on, and so forth.

i was still buying cds...but after reading this, i'm really upset now...it's full-on free illegal downloading henceforth! screw the bastids!!!!!!

Me too! WAIT! Where the F are you buying your CDs? I can't even find them in stores anymore.

Quote
liddas

Quote
jamesfdouglas


That's exactly it. If you put a song on any device of yours that you didn't pay for, you are a thief. Plain and simple. You are also costing people their jobs in the music and publishing industry. I've read post after post here of absolute FOOLS feeling justified for whatever reason, or calling it "sharing".

Making recordings is NOT FREE.
Promoting new music is NOT FREE.
Getting into radio rotation is NOT FREE.
Why are YOU so special that you should take something that isn't yours FOR FREE?
Why is it okay to participate in an activity that has ALREADY cost the music industry countless jobs????

You morons who feel this way, I hope karma bites you all on the ass. Hard. May your financial portfolios take a huge hit. May you not be able to retire comfortably. May you not be able to take care of your loved ones.

It is exhausting to discuss with people with the brain of a Goat (no matter how powerful) ...

In short, you don't have a clue

C

Quote
jamesfdouglas
Why are YOU so special that you should take something that isn't yours FOR FREE?
Why is it okay to participate in an activity that has ALREADY cost the music industry countless jobs????


>>technology makes jobs redundant or obsolete all the time. I work for a television network and the same thing goes on with us too. My advice: Stop being reactionary and start being CREATIVE!!! The Marketing and Promo old boys club can't grasp how to engage people with music anymore. You can't make them care, you have to make something that people want to care about and clearly the industry is failing at that. The sales figures prove it. Make it EASY for people to get what what they want at a reasonable cost, make customer service a priority, make everything a la carte, forget the old models, they're done and they ain't coming back. Create something NEW.

Try this blog out-the guy's no oracle, but a least he's a music business insider trying to figure it out instead of wishing it was still 1989.

[lefsetz.com]

Quote
Lorenz

Quote
liddas

Quote
jamesfdouglas


That's exactly it. If you put a song on any device of yours that you didn't pay for, you are a thief. Plain and simple. You are also costing people their jobs in the music and publishing industry. I've read post after post here of absolute FOOLS feeling justified for whatever reason, or calling it "sharing".

Making recordings is NOT FREE.
Promoting new music is NOT FREE.
Getting into radio rotation is NOT FREE.
Why are YOU so special that you should take something that isn't yours FOR FREE?
Why is it okay to participate in an activity that has ALREADY cost the music industry countless jobs????

You morons who feel this way, I hope karma bites you all on the ass. Hard. May your financial portfolios take a huge hit. May you not be able to retire comfortably. May you not be able to take care of your loved ones.

It is exhausting to discuss with people with the brain of a Goat (no matter how powerful) ...

In short, you don't have a clue

C

It's exhausting and also pointless at a certain point. Unfortunately, posting at a Stones forum doesn't tell much about the intelligence of people - I wish it did.

Quote
StonesTod

Quote
Lorenz

Quote
liddas

Quote
jamesfdouglas


That's exactly it. If you put a song on any device of yours that you didn't pay for, you are a thief. Plain and simple. You are also costing people their jobs in the music and publishing industry. I've read post after post here of absolute FOOLS feeling justified for whatever reason, or calling it "sharing".

Making recordings is NOT FREE.
Promoting new music is NOT FREE.
Getting into radio rotation is NOT FREE.
Why are YOU so special that you should take something that isn't yours FOR FREE?
Why is it okay to participate in an activity that has ALREADY cost the music industry countless jobs????

You morons who feel this way, I hope karma bites you all on the ass. Hard. May your financial portfolios take a huge hit. May you not be able to retire comfortably. May you not be able to take care of your loved ones.

It is exhausting to discuss with people with the brain of a Goat (no matter how powerful) ...

In short, you don't have a clue

C

It's exhausting and also pointless at a certain point. Unfortunately, posting at a Stones forum doesn't tell much about the intelligence of people - I wish it did.

it's best to take your daily dumb-down pill before entering iorr. take two, in fact, and everyone here seems really, really intelligent.

Quote
Munichhilton

Quote
StonesTod

Quote
Lorenz

Quote
liddas

Quote
jamesfdouglas


That's exactly it. If you put a song on any device of yours that you didn't pay for, you are a thief. Plain and simple. You are also costing people their jobs in the music and publishing industry. I've read post after post here of absolute FOOLS feeling justified for whatever reason, or calling it "sharing".

Making recordings is NOT FREE.
Promoting new music is NOT FREE.
Getting into radio rotation is NOT FREE.
Why are YOU so special that you should take something that isn't yours FOR FREE?
Why is it okay to participate in an activity that has ALREADY cost the music industry countless jobs????

You morons who feel this way, I hope karma bites you all on the ass. Hard. May your financial portfolios take a huge hit. May you not be able to retire comfortably. May you not be able to take care of your loved ones.

It is exhausting to discuss with people with the brain of a Goat (no matter how powerful) ...

In short, you don't have a clue

C

It's exhausting and also pointless at a certain point. Unfortunately, posting at a Stones forum doesn't tell much about the intelligence of people - I wish it did.

it's best to take your daily dumb-down pill before entering iorr. take two, in fact, and everyone here seems really, really intelligent.

Shut Up....Yer jist Stoopid

Quote
StonesTod

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
StonesTod

Quote
Whale
The "you morons" of jamesfdouglas says it all.
I hate the music industry. For years they charged way too much.
And the music industry hates their customers: they are the "morons" according to the music industry. Giving them tough love whenever they feel like it. Suing people who link to content. Releasing stuff with only one or two new songs is still massively popular. Not releasing what people want to hear. And so on, and so forth.

i was still buying cds...but after reading this, i'm really upset now...it's full-on free illegal downloading henceforth! screw the bastids!!!!!!

Me too! WAIT! Where the F are you buying your CDs? I can't even find them in stores anymore.

the black market, of course...

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
[instantrimshot.com]

Quote
Green Lady
I understand the technical difference between theft and copyright violation. Nevertheless, when copyright material is routinely taken for free, something is being stolen from someone, and eventually, if it stops being financially rewarding to create a wonderful recording or a blockbuster movie, it won't get done, and we will all be the poorer.

Quote
tomcasagranda
I'd love CDs of the official bootlegs on Stonesarchive.

Ok, so I've ripped them to ITUNES, and then burnt them to disc, but CDs, with nice liner notes, would be just the thing.

Quote
StonesTod

Quote
Green Lady
I understand the technical difference between theft and copyright violation. Nevertheless, when copyright material is routinely taken for free, something is being stolen from someone, and eventually, if it stops being financially rewarding to create a wonderful recording or a blockbuster movie, it won't get done, and we will all be the poorer.

so it's only theft if it's routine.

now we know.