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24FPSQuote
stoneheartedQuote
24FPSQuote
BeautifulBuzz
Rolling Stones Brian Jones' lover Anna Wohlin claims he was killed in scuffle with minder
[www.mirror.co.uk]
She says nothing definitive. It's almost Spinal Tappish when she said she was pregnant with Brian's child. She was there and she can't be sure Brian was murdered. This story fizzled out a long, long time ago.
She was there (meaning at Cotchford Farm), but she never said she was at the scene, as in there at the pool while it was taking place.
It's really more a matter of, now Tom Keylock's dead at last, she's a little less fearful about speaking--wouldn't you be if one of your silencers were finally out of the picture?
The problem is that there's nothing to silence. She witnessed nothing. It was mildly interesting to hear what Brian's mental state was around the time of 'the incident', but she really had nothing else to offer. Her perceptions of how the Rolling Stones office treated her are subjective and lost in the mists of time. I think everyone involved was shocked.
Brian drowned. There's never been any proof that he was forcibly drowned. I don't remember there being any proof of physical violence to his body. Maybe something happened that falls very far from murder. Three and a half pints of beer in his system? Possibly sleeping pills. A heated pool. Maybe there was horseplay and Brian succumbed very easily. The continuing interest in this is what I don't get. And now there's no one alive who was on the scene when it happened to provide any new testimony. It's a closed case.
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2000 LYFHQuote
stonehearted
Another element to indicate there is more to this case than what has been officially reported is the existence of classified government documents that can only be released after 70 years or so because certain information "could cause irreparable harm to the reputation of one or more living persons".
Was that one of the finding's of Trevor Hobley a few years ago?
Any idea where the "Three and a half pints of beer in his system" came from? In Mandy Aftel's book, "Death Of A Rolling Stone", she states that Frank and Brian drank almost an entire bottle of Brandy, 2/3 of a bottle of Vodka, 1/2 bottle of Whiskey and some wine (He was already drinking with Janet before going to to get Frank from the apartment above the garage). Also stated that Brian may have taken sleeping pills. Sure seems like a lot was consumed in a short amount of time...
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sizey
I read the story in the Mail as regards Keith pulling a knife. Well, I thought it was an extraordinary revelation to come out with now. Frank Thorogood's family have been quizzed many times before and never once has this been revealed - has someone got a book coming out?
Am I one of the few who believe Brian never drowned in the swimming pool? As I know, Brian's pool was continually hot and full of chlorine. Note: No presence of chlorine in the death certificate - just "fresh water".
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stoneheartedQuote
sizey
I read the story in the Mail as regards Keith pulling a knife. Well, I thought it was an extraordinary revelation to come out with now. Frank Thorogood's family have been quizzed many times before and never once has this been revealed - has someone got a book coming out?
Am I one of the few who believe Brian never drowned in the swimming pool? As I know, Brian's pool was continually hot and full of chlorine. Note: No presence of chlorine in the death certificate - just "fresh water".
Apparently, it is not chlorine, but a chlorine derivative that is used in most private swimming pools. From the wiki page on chlorine:
Chlorine is usually used (in the form of hypochlorous acid) to kill bacteria and other microbes in drinking water supplies and public swimming pools. In most private swimming pools, chlorine itself is not used, but rather sodium hypochlorite, formed from chlorine and sodium hydroxide, or solid tablets of chlorinated isocyanurates. The drawback of using chlorine in swimming pools is that the chlorine reacts with a human's hair and skin because hair and skin are made from protein. Once the chlorine reacts with the hair and skin, it becomes chemically bonded.
Full page on chlorine at: [en.wikipedia.org]
The autopsy never seemed to be very thorough in that it just seemed to tell of general details. But I agree with 2000 LYFH's post that it mentions fresh water likely in comparison to salt water. I doubt the coroner was thorough--or even interested--enough to more closely analyze the "fresh" water found in the lungs.
As for not drowning in the swimming pool, I'm sure you must be familiar with the "bucket" theory, that, according to at least one witness who was on hand (the member of The Walker Brothers who later told Richard Hattrell?), said that Brian at one point was being held upside down and repeatedly dunked head first into a bucket of water, then afterward was flung into the pool so that they could say that he drowned there. The bucket dunking would surely come under the category of "rough play" of which Brian might have been duped into participating in.
Because if Thorogood gets into the pool with Brian with the intention of drowning Brian, what if Brian resists and a fight breaks out in the pool? In that event, Thorogood would have risked drowning himself.
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stonehearted
Yes, I've seen that link and in fact was browsing through that page just a few hours ago.
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mickschix
I'm not sure " ALL OF THOSE BUSTS" would have happened if Brian hadn't been so careless. ( well, Keith too for that matter. I'm not sure what you saw as productive in Brian during " One Plus One", the parts I recall clearly show a wastd Brian...so ok, not 100% of the time, but a lot of the time in the studio.
Yeah but the band woould not have happened hadnt Brian Jones of Cheltenham been a ruthless cool cruel boy on the run. Michael Philip Jagger would have said bye to Keith and moved into a student dorm. Keith would have returned to Doris's kitchen with the guitar. And he would have been the best goddamn rhythm rock n roll guitar player in London. So, he would have been picked by Eric. And when Eric left that band he would have continued. And later on he would have joined Eric again for a while after Page left. And Hendrix would have jammed with him. And Keith would have tried Jimi's smack. And then ladies and gentlemen Keith would have opened up that Pandora and recorded that late 60s obscure masterpiece called "Shelter street", a record that meant everything to everyone who was there. A masterpiece that young guitarplayers today still hold high. An important record with much bigger impact that Keith never knew during his short but striking lifetime.
Michael Philip Jagger of London, assistant of the MP remembers: Yes, Keith Richard was a friend of mine. We knew eachother quite well at the time and then we grew apart. I didnt hear form him except the odd phone call or letter. I kept those letters and read them again when I heard of his record "Gimme Exile" (sic). He was a funny fellow, one of a kind. I guess he got mixed up with drugs, if indeed he was, like many of us take to drinks.
Excellent!
- Doxa
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mickschix
I'm not sure " ALL OF THOSE BUSTS" would have happened if Brian hadn't been so careless. ( well, Keith too for that matter. I'm not sure what you saw as productive in Brian during " One Plus One", the parts I recall clearly show a wastd Brian...so ok, not 100% of the time, but a lot of the time in the studio.
Yeah but the band woould not have happened hadnt Brian Jones of Cheltenham been a ruthless cool cruel boy on the run. Michael Philip Jagger would have said bye to Keith and moved into a student dorm. Keith would have returned to Doris's kitchen with the guitar. And he would have been the best goddamn rhythm rock n roll guitar player in London. So, he would have been picked by Eric. And when Eric left that band he would have continued. And later on he would have joined Eric again for a while after Page left. And Hendrix would have jammed with him. And Keith would have tried Jimi's smack. And then ladies and gentlemen Keith would have opened up that Pandora and recorded that late 60s obscure masterpiece called "Shelter street", a record that meant everything to everyone who was there. A masterpiece that young guitarplayers today still hold high. An important record with much bigger impact that Keith never knew during his short but striking lifetime.
Michael Philip Jagger of London, assistant of the MP remembers: Yes, Keith Richard was a friend of mine. We knew eachother quite well at the time and then we grew apart. I didnt hear form him except the odd phone call or letter. I kept those letters and read them again when I heard of his record "Gimme Exile" (sic). He was a funny fellow, one of a kind. I guess he got mixed up with drugs, if indeed he was, like many of us take to drinks.
Excellent!
- Doxa
Yes brilliant Redhotcarpet.
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ovalvox
I find it very interesting that now it is reported that Keith threatened Brian with a knife just hours before his death. Over the rights to the name Rolling Stones by the Daily Mail. This is certainly plausible since Brian had the patent on the name. And Keith is hot headed enough to pull a knife. It seems after all these years that everyone was at Cotchford that day. This "can of worms" just won't go away. Maybe the English authorities will eventually do a real investigation and answer all the questions. Or at least rule out some of the theories. Someone murdered him. To many people were threatened and just to scared to talk for over 40 years. There were so many people that day that someone knows the truth or part of it anyways. The legend that Mick was there that day may now be real and make this worth investigating. And again if Brian was at the bottom of the pool he would have been dead for hours before he sunk to the bottom. And I don't believe a word that Janet or Anna say. There was more than likely a party that night. Just to much evidence yet they both tell a different tale. I used to think Frank did it but now he makes the perfect scapegoat being dead. Well his daughter isn't giving up without a fight. As for the glimmer twins? Yesterdays revelation changes everything. Mick's face probably turned pale when he read the paper. If the English authorities decide to re-open the case instead of quickly sweeping it back under the carpet, Mick and Keith will be the first two people interrogated. And who really owns the name of the Rolling Stones? Is it the estate of Brian Jones? Did Mick and Keith ever secure the rights legally? 44 years later and the mystery surrounding the death of Brian Jones continues.
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ovalvox
I find it very interesting that now it is reported that Keith threatened Brian with a knife just hours before his death. Over the rights to the name Rolling Stones by the Daily Mail. This is certainly plausible since Brian had the patent on the name. And Keith is hot headed enough to pull a knife. It seems after all these years that everyone was at Cotchford that day. This "can of worms" just won't go away. Maybe the English authorities will eventually do a real investigation and answer all the questions. Or at least rule out some of the theories. Someone murdered him. To many people were threatened and just to scared to talk for over 40 years. There were so many people that day that someone knows the truth or part of it anyways. The legend that Mick was there that day may now be real and make this worth investigating. And again if Brian was at the bottom of the pool he would have been dead for hours before he sunk to the bottom. And I don't believe a word that Janet or Anna say. There was more than likely a party that night. Just to much evidence yet they both tell a different tale. I used to think Frank did it but now he makes the perfect scapegoat being dead. Well his daughter isn't giving up without a fight. As for the glimmer twins? Yesterdays revelation changes everything. Mick's face probably turned pale when he read the paper. If the English authorities decide to re-open the case instead of quickly sweeping it back under the carpet, Mick and Keith will be the first two people interrogated. And who really owns the name of the Rolling Stones? Is it the estate of Brian Jones? Did Mick and Keith ever secure the rights legally? 44 years later and the mystery surrounding the death of Brian Jones continues.
I agree!
I do not think that the name Rolling Stones was a trademark owned by Brian Jones and after his death it would trickle down to his heirs. They formed a group and all were equal members and the band was named in 62 (before Bill & Charlie joined though). Has there ever been anything official on the ownership of the name other than anyone's opinion?
The other thing is this party that night. I believe that the carpet guys left at about 10PM (no party and no other people reported there except Brian and his girlfriend) and then he was dead within 2 hours (was it before midnight?). So all these people came out of the wood work in that 120 miute span and then there was a party and then he was murdered. I guess it's possible but the timeline seems to be off!
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24FPS
Yes, thank you, His Majesty. That seems to make sense. If there was money on the table no one was going to leave it there. It probably became such a trickle at some point that maybe the family didn't bother with it. Maybe the Stones had to have an arrangement with Brian's sister for usage of his image in Crossfire, or even on stage during the current tour. Wonder if they had to pay Bill for his mug? At any rate Brian's image must not be in the public domain or everyone would try and make a buck from it. (Or maybe it is and they assume it isn't).
Isn't it good to deal with factual information?
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24FPS
And stop this crap about Keith driving down to Brian's house and threatening him with the mythical blade, until you have solid proof. Your fevered speculations, based on air, are tedious and lead to a blind alley.
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ovalvoxQuote
24FPS
And stop this crap about Keith driving down to Brian's house and threatening him with the mythical blade, until you have solid proof. Your fevered speculations, based on air, are tedious and lead to a blind alley.
You might want to talk to the daily mail about stopping this "crap" as they are the ones that reported it. Something about freedom of the press and peoples rights to comment bother you?
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24FPS
And stop this crap about Keith driving down to Brian's house and threatening him with the mythical blade, until you have solid proof. Your fevered speculations, based on air, are tedious and lead to a blind alley.
You might want to talk to the daily mail about stopping this "crap" as they are the ones that reported it. Something about freedom of the press and peoples rights to comment bother you?
No, no, tranquilo mi amigo. Just expressing an opinion.