I find it odd that on almost every George Harrison-penned Beatle song, John Lennon made himself scarce. Think about it: He does not play guitar on Here Comes The Sun, Something, I Me Mine, Savoy Truffle, Taxman. Maybe some keyboard on While My Guitar Gently Weeps - but no guitar. Just backing vocals on The Inner Light. Not sure about Old Brown Shoe. He does play lap steel on For You Blue, but they cut that one live.

There were too many for this to be a coincidence. Was he making a statement? Not interested enough in George's songs to play on them? Or what?

Not sure if he's on Blue Jay Way, Love You Too, I Want To Tell You, If I Needed Someone. Don't have the Lewisohn book handy. Insights anyone?

Well by all accounts he was board by George's songs. And often resented having to spend time on his stuff. Big egos in The Beatles. Also, there was probably some envy as well involved, especially on the later George songs that were so darn good! In an interview Lennon talks about how George used to follow him around when he was 15, even when John was on dates... Lennon recounts this with some disdain and irritation. But also, John did contribute to some of George's songs. Taxman in particular, he helped with some of the writing. But you are right Tele, for the most part John is absent from George's stuff. Which is all the more confusing when you consider that often George was publicly more critical of McCartney. Yet McCartney can be heard on almost all of George's songs, and seemed to contribute a lot with music and harmonies. And the famous Beatle argument in Let it Be is often used as an example of George's frustration with McCartney. And to be sure he was, but actually some of the worst fights they had as a group was between George and John. During Let it Be there is the famous argument where George quits and that was all between him and John. In fact some historians allege they came to blows. There is even an odd interview in 69 with George where he describes it as an argument, "we fell out.." Also George was very anti Yoko, and was very angry that She did all of John's talking for him during 69. And that Lennon completely became a passive and silent member of the group.
There is also the famous stuff from Lennon's playboy interview where he candidly discusses how he was upset with George for not mentioning him in his autobiography I Me Mine, and that they had not spoken in years. And it is known that George and John had not made up prior to Lennon's death.
I believe a lot of stuff was going on, but mainly Lennon couldn't be bothered. He wasn't all that into Harrison's stuff and was in a highly competitive and collaborative relationship with Paul, which was enough for Lennon. And he always felt George was the young follower who was to be patronized but not partnered with. It is telling that Lennon doesn't play on a lot of George's final stuff and the Threetles were the only ones on their last few official sessions remixing and adding overdubs to Let it Be material. The Beatles final session in 1970 was only with George, Paul, and Ringo.
But then George collaborated with John during Imagine, and there are some great video footage of them making Imagine at John's place and George providing beautiful slide and sublime leads on Oh My Love. And the vicious slide on How Do You Sleep. But then George had major hits, sold more than Lennon and then for Bangladesh, George asked Lennon to come and would not let Yoko, that was pretty much it between them. I think they only spoke after that during business meetings in New York and some final legal meetings to officially dissolve The Beatles.

Intressting that John does back-up vocal on my favourite George-song namely 'The inner ligt'...

2 1 2 0

Doesn't Lennon play the piano including signature intro on While My Guitar Gently Weeps?

Lennon said, I forget which interview, that he helped George write Taxman a bit.

I miss these guys.

John had a cruel streak.

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His Majesty
Lennon said, I forget which interview, that he helped George write Taxman a bit.

the line with ho ho Mr Wilson, Ho Ho Mr Heath...thats typical Lennon...

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George also played that blistering solo on "give me some truth" on Imagine album!

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whitem8
Well by all accounts he was board by George's songs. And often resented having to spend time on his stuff. Big egos in The Beatles. Also, there was probably some envy as well involved, especially on the later George songs that were so darn good! In an interview Lennon talks about how George used to follow him around when he was 15, even when John was on dates... Lennon recounts this with some disdain and irritation. But also, John did contribute to some of George's songs. Taxman in particular, he helped with some of the writing. But you are right Tele, for the most part John is absent from George's stuff. Which is all the more confusing when you consider that often George was publicly more critical of McCartney. Yet McCartney can be heard on almost all of George's songs, and seemed to contribute a lot with music and harmonies. And the famous Beatle argument in Let it Be is often used as an example of George's frustration with McCartney. And to be sure he was, but actually some of the worst fights they had as a group was between George and John. During Let it Be there is the famous argument where George quits and that was all between him and John. In fact some historians allege they came to blows. There is even an odd interview in 69 with George where he describes it as an argument, "we fell out.." Also George was very anti Yoko, and was very angry that She did all of John's talking for him during 69. And that Lennon completely became a passive and silent member of the group.
There is also the famous stuff from Lennon's playboy interview where he candidly discusses how he was upset with George for not mentioning him in his autobiography I Me Mine, and that they had not spoken in years. And it is known that George and John had not made up prior to Lennon's death.
I believe a lot of stuff was going on, but mainly Lennon couldn't be bothered. He wasn't all that into Harrison's stuff and was in a highly competitive and collaborative relationship with Paul, which was enough for Lennon. And he always felt George was the young follower who was to be patronized but not partnered with. It is telling that Lennon doesn't play on a lot of George's final stuff and the Threetles were the only ones on their last few official sessions remixing and adding overdubs to Let it Be material. The Beatles final session in 1970 was only with George, Paul, and Ringo.
But then George collaborated with John during Imagine, and there are some great video footage of them making Imagine at John's place and George providing beautiful slide and sublime leads on Oh My Love. And the vicious slide on How Do You Sleep. But then George had major hits, sold more than Lennon and then for Bangladesh, George asked Lennon to come and would not let Yoko, that was pretty much it between them. I think they only spoke after that during business meetings in New York and some final legal meetings to officially dissolve The Beatles.

Interesting stuff - thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-22 17:00 by CindyC.

Yeah, I believe the record shows there was a serious rift between Lennon and Harrison, but McCartney's backing vocals on George's material was just perfect at times, and might account for Lennon's absence on a few of them.

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Kuntaman
George also played that blistering solo on "give me some truth" on Imagine album!

Good answer!!

That is, if the question was, "Where's George on the John Songs?"

I always thought George was a bit hard on Paul.

Paul's playing on "Something" is beautiful, one of his best bass lines. In fact Paul never held back on any George song.

Paul always did what was best for the song and when he disagreed with George about what was best it was because Paul was usually right.

It got up George's nose a bit, but I don't think Paul compromised much when it came to music.

We famously know George and Paul argued because of Let it Be, but we never see the George-John relationship.

It seems that wasn't exactly smooth either.

My initial question was a bit more pragmatic. In a group with two guitarists, one of them is missing on almost every George Harrison song. Even though Lennon sang backing vocals and even helped write "Taxman", he seems to have put his guitar down whenever a George song was recorded, which is at odds with the way the group usually recorded.

The "Let It Be" argument between John and George was off-camera, so is less well-known than the famous "I'll play what you want me to play" argument between him and McCartney that was captured on film. On bootlegs John can be heard telling George "run along now son, we're a rock 'n' roll band you know" after George plays "All Things Must Pass" or one of the many songs he came to the sessions with. It must have been quite difficult for George to be patronized that way. (The group did do a half-hearted attempt at the song and then it was dropped).

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Valeswood
Doesn't Lennon play the piano including signature intro on While My Guitar Gently Weeps?

I think that's McCartney.

What with Paul being so keen and active on George's songs, was there really any room for Lennon's guitar playing?

Generally, Lennon liked the more straight forward stuff, unless, it seems, it was off kilter on his terms. The timing of the changes on Across The Universe for example. Some of George's songs are quite complicated chord and melody wise, they would be something Lennon would have to sit and learn and learning the changes etc of George's quirky writing might have been some what of a quirk too far for Lennon as a guitarist.

In other words, faced with a combination of complicated new songs by younger George and the enthusiasm of pushy Paul (usually) using George's songs as a vehicle for his guitar playing... maybe Lennon thought it best to leave them to it and only sing on George's songs if he was needed.

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His Majesty
a quirk too far

:E is that copyrighted, or can i use it too? :E

It's too bad that in these larger-than-life bands, egos always get in the way. I loved George and I could see why he was pissed at John and Paul for only allowing 2 George songs per album, or whatever the weird restrictions were. Apparently, according to his bio, he started hoarding his music and collecting songs that he never intended to share with the Beatles..." All Things Must Pass" was the result...he was truly prolific and BRILLIANT!

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with sssoul

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His Majesty
a quirk too far

:E is that copyrighted, or can i use it too? :E

Feel free!

If I'm correct, there's only one song credited to "Lennon/Harrison".

From what I gather, Lennon could be a distant friend who would phone
in his feelings and commitments. Probably the result of coming from
a broken home. A stronger friendship between Lennon and Harrison
probably would have kept The Beatles intact, probably moreso than
the Lennon/McCartney partnership.

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whitem8
Well by all accounts he was board by George's songs. And often resented having to spend time on his stuff. Big egos in The Beatles. Also, there was probably some envy as well involved, especially on the later George songs that were so darn good! In an interview Lennon talks about how George used to follow him around when he was 15, even when John was on dates... Lennon recounts this with some disdain and irritation. But also, John did contribute to some of George's songs. Taxman in particular, he helped with some of the writing. But you are right Tele, for the most part John is absent from George's stuff. Which is all the more confusing when you consider that often George was publicly more critical of McCartney. Yet McCartney can be heard on almost all of George's songs, and seemed to contribute a lot with music and harmonies. And the famous Beatle argument in Let it Be is often used as an example of George's frustration with McCartney. And to be sure he was, but actually some of the worst fights they had as a group was between George and John. During Let it Be there is the famous argument where George quits and that was all between him and John. In fact some historians allege they came to blows. There is even an odd interview in 69 with George where he describes it as an argument, "we fell out.." Also George was very anti Yoko, and was very angry that She did all of John's talking for him during 69. And that Lennon completely became a passive and silent member of the group.
There is also the famous stuff from Lennon's playboy interview where he candidly discusses how he was upset with George for not mentioning him in his autobiography I Me Mine, and that they had not spoken in years. And it is known that George and John had not made up prior to Lennon's death.
I believe a lot of stuff was going on, but mainly Lennon couldn't be bothered. He wasn't all that into Harrison's stuff and was in a highly competitive and collaborative relationship with Paul, which was enough for Lennon. And he always felt George was the young follower who was to be patronized but not partnered with. It is telling that Lennon doesn't play on a lot of George's final stuff and the Threetles were the only ones on their last few official sessions remixing and adding overdubs to Let it Be material. The Beatles final session in 1970 was only with George, Paul, and Ringo.
But then George collaborated with John during Imagine, and there are some great video footage of them making Imagine at John's place and George providing beautiful slide and sublime leads on Oh My Love. And the vicious slide on How Do You Sleep. But then George had major hits, sold more than Lennon and then for Bangladesh, George asked Lennon to come and would not let Yoko, that was pretty much it between them. I think they only spoke after that during business meetings in New York and some final legal meetings to officially dissolve The Beatles.

Totally agree as I've always found it really odd that George so thoroughly aligned himself with John after the break-up given that Lennon would often not bother to turn up at sessions during '69 that were devoted to George's songs. I don't think John considered Harrison to be remotely in his or Paul's league, which although true in terms of songwriting up until the White Album was definitely no longer the case.

But I think George simply preferred John as a person vs. Paul despite Lennon's indifference to his music.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-22 21:52 by milliondollarsad.

Didn't Paul bring George (his younger friend and guitar picking buddy) along to meet John after the church picnic meeting?

Any time there are three guys together it's 2 against 1. Forget Ringo, he was just the drummer for all.

JOhn gave George the "declare the pennies on your eyes" line but I thought John said in the Playboy interview that he helped George more than anyone else in the band, especially more than Paul. And its obvious to me that George adored John and looked upon him as a big brother.Who's fighting all thru the "Let It Be'' footage? It sure isnt George and John. There are some pretty cutting arguments between Paul and George there,tho.

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scottkeef
JOhn gave George the "declare the pennies on your eyes" line but I thought John said in the Playboy interview that he helped George more than anyone else in the band, especially more than Paul. And its obvious to me that George adored John and looked upon him as a big brother.Who's fighting all thru the "Let It Be'' footage? It sure isnt George and John. There are some pretty cutting arguments between Paul and George there,tho.

That's in the film. During the sessions though, John treated George quite high-handedly, not wanting to bother learning any of his songs. Much of this is audible on the many bootlegs of the Get Back sessions.

I'll go back and give a closer listen. Its sure possible I didnt pick up on it. I do admit to watching the film footage more than listening to the session discs..I mean how many are there? about thirty something discs?? Whew!!

From what I've read (and watched in bio pics, etc), Paul was the one holding the band together until he finally said "I'm done".

Called a 'control freak' by Lennon, I believe that Paul was only trying to hold the band together for the sake of the music. He became the 'Mick' of the band while John was recording screaming noises on heroin.

When I think of the White Album, Let It Be and Abbey Road, apart from Across the Universe and Come Together, the most impacting songs were Paul and George's.

[thepowergoats.com]

background vocals on old brown shoe.

I'm going from memory here, but I'll check all my books.
Starting with Revolver.
Taxman: backing vox
Love You Too: Nada
I Want To Tell You: possible vox
Only A Northern Song: possible vox
Within You: Nada
It's All Too Much: possibly organ and vox
Blue Jay Way: maybe second Hammond organ
Inner Light: backing vox
Not Guilty: possible guitar
Gently Weeps: guitar (Fender VI bass)
Piggies: tape loops
Long Long Long: nada
Savoy Truffle: nada
Old Brown Shoe: guitar wiped in favor of organ, vox
Something: guitar (although that Leslie'd guitar could be George. I think it is)
Here Comes The Sun: nada
For You Blue: slide
I Me Mine: nada



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-23 00:57 by tomk.

Paul plays piano on While My Guitar. . . and does a great version with Clapton on The Concert for George.

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tomk
I'm going from memory here, but I'll check all my books.
Starting with Revolver.
Taxman: backing vox
Love You Too: Nada
I Want To Tell You: possible vox
Only A Northern Song: possible vox
Within You: Nada
It's All Too Much: possibly organ and vox
Blue Jay Way: maybe second Hammond organ
Inner Light: backing vox
Not Guilty: possible guitar
Gently Weeps: guitar (Fender VI bass)
Piggies: tape loops
Long Long Long: nada
Savoy Truffle: nada
Old Brown Shoe: guitar wiped in favor of organ, vox
Something: guitar (although that Leslie'd guitar could be George. I think it is)
Here Comes The Sun: nada
For You Blue: slide
I Me Mine: nada

Nice job. I do think the leslie guitar on Something is George. Doesn't seem like John's style. I'll have to listen again for the Bass VI on "While My Guitar". But if you check your list there is almost NO guitar by Lennon on any of the George songs, which is remarkable. Maybe something went wrong on "Don't Bother Me" and that was the end!