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seitan

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Mathijs

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seitan

The ’80s were a turbulent decade as the rich got richer and the poor hung on for dear life. Alternative punk bands railed against the political policies of neo nazis like Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, while bores like Jagger had no real conscience about pandering to things like violence and sexism.

That's your view. My problem with punk music in general is that at the time it didn't matter that they couldn't play, it was all about the message. But now, 25 years later, the message has become obsolete, and all that's left is music played by people who couldn't play. I find 90% of punk music just totally outdated and unlistenable.

Mathijs

Yes, that´s my view - who´s view do you want me to say ?

Let´s talk about your view then - you are trying to tell me that the message of punk bands have become obsolete, - so can you tell me - when did human rights, fight against racism and terrorism, helping the homeless and respecting the environment, become obsolete ideas ? - That seems to be your view !!
So speakin of your view - are you a right wing nazi or are you just talkin rubbish here ??

When I talk about punk music I talk about British punk music of the late '70's, nothing more nothing less. American punk was/is totally different -much more aggressive and totally different topics in the lyrics. I do not recall many songs about the environment (not really a topic in the late 70's), the homeless (not existing in Europe as much as in the US), terrorism (hardly a topic for the average punk band in the day, certainly not as it is now).

Racism, being unemployed, having no future, the (British) government and fascism where indeed topics. Fascism is gone in Europe, unemployment is quite limited, and the future's is ours, as they say. Really, I don't see much resemblance with the lyrics of the early 80's and the situation of 2012.

Is punk still alive today? I think not. I was at a Jello Biafra gig three months ago. There where about 150 people in attendance. Very good gig by the way.

Mathijs

When I first heard the Undercover track, I thought, oh no, what the hell are they doing? But then I grew to like it a lot. & I love Feel On Baby - Tie You Up and She Was Hot are also great. Overall a pretty good record - haven't listened to it in a few years, I'll have to put it on.

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Mathijs

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seitan

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Mathijs

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seitan

The ’80s were a turbulent decade as the rich got richer and the poor hung on for dear life. Alternative punk bands railed against the political policies of neo nazis like Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, while bores like Jagger had no real conscience about pandering to things like violence and sexism.

That's your view. My problem with punk music in general is that at the time it didn't matter that they couldn't play, it was all about the message. But now, 25 years later, the message has become obsolete, and all that's left is music played by people who couldn't play. I find 90% of punk music just totally outdated and unlistenable.

Mathijs

Yes, that´s my view - who´s view do you want me to say ?

Let´s talk about your view then - you are trying to tell me that the message of punk bands have become obsolete, - so can you tell me - when did human rights, fight against racism and terrorism, helping the homeless and respecting the environment, become obsolete ideas ? - That seems to be your view !!
So speakin of your view - are you a right wing nazi or are you just talkin rubbish here ??

When I talk about punk music I talk about British punk music of the late '70's, nothing more nothing less. American punk was/is totally different -much more aggressive and totally different topics in the lyrics. I do not recall many songs about the environment (not really a topic in the late 70's), the homeless (not existing in Europe as much as in the US), terrorism (hardly a topic for the average punk band in the day, certainly not as it is now).

Racism, being unemployed, having no future, the (British) government and fascism where indeed topics. Fascism is gone in Europe, unemployment is quite limited, and the future's is ours, as they say. Really, I don't see much resemblance with the lyrics of the early 80's and the situation of 2012.

Is punk still alive today? I think not. I was at a Jello Biafra gig three months ago. There where about 150 people in attendance. Very good gig by the way.

Mathijs

The open hostility to the EU and immigration is on the rise in Europe and Europe is falling prey to xenophobic right-wing populism as we speak. Racism, being unemployed, having no future, - European populations squeal under financial insecurity at the moment, and not only the EU but also the liberal world view has come under fire. - Austria’s Freedom Party, the Danish Peoples’ Party, the True Finns in Finland (Just this week member of the True Finns party - Tommi Rautio - stated that he would like to give awards to people if they would kill foreigners in Finland, - and this is 2012) and Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom in the Netherlands - to name only few.

This is happening in Europe as we speak - Populist, illiberal parties are flourishing in the most sophisticated, liberal societies of Northern Europe and that it is indeed a very worrying development.

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GravityBoy
I'm just saying, you want to see where the cracks start then it's Mick solo stuff like this.

I can't believe that Keith was happy with the disco direction.

Certainly not until the royalty cheques for Miss You started rolling in.

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seitan

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Mathijs

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seitan

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Mathijs

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seitan

The ’80s were a turbulent decade as the rich got richer and the poor hung on for dear life. Alternative punk bands railed against the political policies of neo nazis like Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, while bores like Jagger had no real conscience about pandering to things like violence and sexism.

That's your view. My problem with punk music in general is that at the time it didn't matter that they couldn't play, it was all about the message. But now, 25 years later, the message has become obsolete, and all that's left is music played by people who couldn't play. I find 90% of punk music just totally outdated and unlistenable.

Mathijs

Yes, that´s my view - who´s view do you want me to say ?

Let´s talk about your view then - you are trying to tell me that the message of punk bands have become obsolete, - so can you tell me - when did human rights, fight against racism and terrorism, helping the homeless and respecting the environment, become obsolete ideas ? - That seems to be your view !!
So speakin of your view - are you a right wing nazi or are you just talkin rubbish here ??

When I talk about punk music I talk about British punk music of the late '70's, nothing more nothing less. American punk was/is totally different -much more aggressive and totally different topics in the lyrics. I do not recall many songs about the environment (not really a topic in the late 70's), the homeless (not existing in Europe as much as in the US), terrorism (hardly a topic for the average punk band in the day, certainly not as it is now).

Racism, being unemployed, having no future, the (British) government and fascism where indeed topics. Fascism is gone in Europe, unemployment is quite limited, and the future's is ours, as they say. Really, I don't see much resemblance with the lyrics of the early 80's and the situation of 2012.

Is punk still alive today? I think not. I was at a Jello Biafra gig three months ago. There where about 150 people in attendance. Very good gig by the way.

Mathijs

The open hostility to the EU and immigration is on the rise in Europe and Europe is falling prey to xenophobic right-wing populism as we speak. Racism, being unemployed, having no future, - European populations squeal under financial insecurity at the moment, and not only the EU but also the liberal world view has come under fire. - Austria’s Freedom Party, the Danish Peoples’ Party, the True Finns in Finland (Just this week member of the True Finns party - Tommi Rautio - stated that he would like to give awards to people if they would kill foreigners in Finland, - and this is 2012) and Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom in the Netherlands - to name only few.

This is happening in Europe as we speak - Populist, illiberal parties are flourishing in the most sophisticated, liberal societies of Northern Europe and that it is indeed a very worrying development.

It is a worrying development Seitan. Particularly as there appears no true clarity espoused as to how to get out of the downward spiral. Not to be 'doomest' but the worst may still be yet to come. I hope we figure a way out of this.

Numerous new bootlegs or so called "Alternate" officials are floating around
on some well known auction sites, here's the one for Undercover



What happened to some sticker

HMN

I love undercover its way better than steel wheels,voodoo lounge,bridges to babylon and a bigger bang,.
undercover is one of my fav albums

Feel The Fear
And Do It Anyway

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DandelionPowderman
<"She Was Hot", like 71Tele said in his own words, belongs to their safe and sure notalgia area.>

Yeah, together with Star Star, Rocks Off, Rip This Joint, Respectable, All Down The Line and others, only with a great, great chorus that sounds nothing but contemporary - far from nostalgic.

I don't think She Was Hot was in the league of any of those songs.

the last great stones album. the last time they sounded like a real band. the last time they somehow mattered musicaly. great songs, great vibe and mood!
i dont know why, but especially this album sounds so much better on vinyl!

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guitarbastard
the last great stones album. the last time they sounded like a real band. the last time they somehow mattered musicaly. great songs, great vibe and mood!
i dont know why, but especially this album sounds so much better on vinyl!

Well, probably the last album mixed primarily for vinyl, wouldn't that be correct?

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71Tele

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guitarbastard
the last great stones album. the last time they sounded like a real band. the last time they somehow mattered musicaly. great songs, great vibe and mood!
i dont know why, but especially this album sounds so much better on vinyl!

Well, probably the last album mixed primarily for vinyl, wouldn't that be correct?

interesting point...

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71Tele

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DandelionPowderman
<"She Was Hot", like 71Tele said in his own words, belongs to their safe and sure notalgia area.>

Yeah, together with Star Star, Rocks Off, Rip This Joint, Respectable, All Down The Line and others, only with a great, great chorus that sounds nothing but contemporary - far from nostalgic.

I don't think She Was Hot was in the league of any of those songs.

I agree...although maybe in the same league as Respectable.

hey Honestman, what's the deal with that 'alternative' version? different versions of the tracks, outakes etc?

i too love this album and have only heard some poor quality (sonically speaking) outtakes.

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treaclefingers

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71Tele

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DandelionPowderman
<"She Was Hot", like 71Tele said in his own words, belongs to their safe and sure notalgia area.>

Yeah, together with Star Star, Rocks Off, Rip This Joint, Respectable, All Down The Line and others, only with a great, great chorus that sounds nothing but contemporary - far from nostalgic.

I don't think She Was Hot was in the league of any of those songs.

I agree...although maybe in the same league as Respectable.

I would go with that.

I think you should rely on your feelings about it when it was new to you. Your first impression. I was looking forward to something like "Tattoo You" then, so this one disappointed me.

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Stoneage
I think you should rely on your feelings about it when it was new to you. Your first impression. I was looking forward to something like "Tattoo You" then, so this one disappointed me.

I was still a dopey kid, and my first impression of Tattoo You was, I liked side one, and hated side two. I changed several years later in University and came to appreciate ALL of Tattoo You. For Undercover, I liked the whole thing from the get-go and still do.

The title track is just so different from anything they've done before or since, and different in style from anything any other band that I've heard, has done.

For that alone, I think you could call Undercover a classic.

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guitarbastard

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71Tele

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guitarbastard
the last great stones album. the last time they sounded like a real band. the last time they somehow mattered musicaly. great songs, great vibe and mood!
i dont know why, but especially this album sounds so much better on vinyl!

Well, probably the last album mixed primarily for vinyl, wouldn't that be correct?

interesting point...

Wasn't Steel Wheels the first DDD? I think Dirty Work was till mixed for analogue, what was that, AAD?

The title track is indeed great and in it's own way as good as most of their more celebrated works. Gotta tip the hat to Chris Kimsey for putting it all together. A real production piece! Check out his interview posted on this forum if you haven't already done so!

The live version from Atlantic City 1989 is smoking hot!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-23 06:11 by His Majesty.

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treaclefingers


Wasn't Steel Wheels the first DDD? I think Dirty Work was till mixed for analogue, what was that, AAD?

Well, when I listen to DW I get ADD.

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seitan
The open hostility to the EU and immigration is on the rise in Europe and Europe is falling prey to xenophobic right-wing populism as we speak. Racism, being unemployed, having no future, - European populations squeal under financial insecurity at the moment, and not only the EU but also the liberal world view has come under fire. - Austria’s Freedom Party, the Danish Peoples’ Party, the True Finns in Finland (Just this week member of the True Finns party - Tommi Rautio - stated that he would like to give awards to people if they would kill foreigners in Finland, - and this is 2012) and Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom in the Netherlands - to name only few.

[/b]

Wow man, that's sounds like 1933 again! But, I have a feeling you live in a different Europe than I do...

Mathijs

"The open hostility to the EU and immigration"

Yeah, because it has been used to subjugate the British people, to import cheap labour and trigger a race to the bottom over how much LESS people will work for.

The hostility is justified.

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71Tele

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DandelionPowderman
What exactly wasn't strong with the material on UC? This is really interesting, I think.

Songs like Undercover, She Was Hot, Feel On Baby, Too Much Blood, Too Tough and All The Way Down are to me well-crafted song, and also brilliantly performed.

Are you sure about the songs not being up to par, or is it within the production (synths, drum machines etc.) the critics have a beef with this album? Would be interesting to know.

She Was Hot has maybe the best chorus the Stones ever have written, imo. Rocking, melodic, dynamic and edgy.

Um, the songs...

I mean we all like what we like, but how have songs like Feel On Baby and the others you mentioned really stood up in the canon? How many times have the Stones performed them in all the hundreds of shows and years of touring since UC came out? That would be none (excepting She Was Hot). I think these songs are mediocre. So in the case of the songs you mentioned, to answer your question, both the songs and the production are wanting, imo.

By that logic we can tear GHS apart, too. It's not a question of how many times the Stones have played those songs live. Some of them are really hard to re-create on stage (based on analogue delay rhythm guitars, for instance). Others are simply too tough (pun intended) to sing live.

The exception here, is of course Undercover Of The Night, which they played amazingly well in 1989, not so good in 2006.

I know this is a matter of aquired taste, but imo it's too easy to dismiss some of the rockers on Undercover as recycled and nostalgic songs, since the new production methods and a new sound was so evident on this record.

Feel On Baby is a loose jam, but I like it. I wouldn't expect the Stones to play that one live ever.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-23 10:02 by DandelionPowderman.

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Mathijs

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seitan

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Mathijs

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seitan

The ’80s were a turbulent decade as the rich got richer and the poor hung on for dear life. Alternative punk bands railed against the political policies of neo nazis like Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, while bores like Jagger had no real conscience about pandering to things like violence and sexism.

That's your view. My problem with punk music in general is that at the time it didn't matter that they couldn't play, it was all about the message. But now, 25 years later, the message has become obsolete, and all that's left is music played by people who couldn't play. I find 90% of punk music just totally outdated and unlistenable.

Mathijs

Yes, that´s my view - who´s view do you want me to say ?

Let´s talk about your view then - you are trying to tell me that the message of punk bands have become obsolete, - so can you tell me - when did human rights, fight against racism and terrorism, helping the homeless and respecting the environment, become obsolete ideas ? - That seems to be your view !!
So speakin of your view - are you a right wing nazi or are you just talkin rubbish here ??

When I talk about punk music I talk about British punk music of the late '70's, nothing more nothing less. American punk was/is totally different -much more aggressive and totally different topics in the lyrics. I do not recall many songs about the environment (not really a topic in the late 70's), the homeless (not existing in Europe as much as in the US), terrorism (hardly a topic for the average punk band in the day, certainly not as it is now).

Racism, being unemployed, having no future, the (British) government and fascism where indeed topics. Fascism is gone in Europe, unemployment is quite limited, and the future's is ours, as they say. Really, I don't see much resemblance with the lyrics of the early 80's and the situation of 2012.

Is punk still alive today? I think not. I was at a Jello Biafra gig three months ago. There where about 150 people in attendance. Very good gig by the way.

Mathijs

Tell that to the greeks, the spaniards or the italians.

Apart from that you have a point, imo, but the punk thing will always come in waves - and, most importantly, it still is a part of growing up - many kids, even today go through a "punk phase".

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71Tele

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DandelionPowderman
<"She Was Hot", like 71Tele said in his own words, belongs to their safe and sure notalgia area.>

Yeah, together with Star Star, Rocks Off, Rip This Joint, Respectable, All Down The Line and others, only with a great, great chorus that sounds nothing but contemporary - far from nostalgic.

I don't think She Was Hot was in the league of any of those songs.

I know you don't think so I was thinking in technical, songwriting terms. Why is SWH in their "safe and sure nostalgic area"? For me, it's more intricate because of the musical chorus.

BTW, for me, it's way better than Star Star (which I also like).

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Mathijs

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seitan
The open hostility to the EU and immigration is on the rise in Europe and Europe is falling prey to xenophobic right-wing populism as we speak. Racism, being unemployed, having no future, - European populations squeal under financial insecurity at the moment, and not only the EU but also the liberal world view has come under fire. - Austria’s Freedom Party, the Danish Peoples’ Party, the True Finns in Finland (Just this week member of the True Finns party - Tommi Rautio - stated that he would like to give awards to people if they would kill foreigners in Finland, - and this is 2012) and Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom in the Netherlands - to name only few.

[/b]

Wow man, that's sounds like 1933 again! But, I have a feeling you live in a different Europe than I do...

Mathijs

Actually, it´s not the different Europe you live... i would say that: you dont live on this planet. You live on some dream fantasy world where punk is gone and Undercover is guitar driven. Come down here on this planet and face the reality. The only thing that´s missing is concentration camps for Romanians, but while we are waiting.. go to Amnesty International websites and read how Romanians are being treated in Europe - It´s like 1933 again..

Romania’s poorest citizens cannot access adequate housing because of the country’s legal system, Widespread intolerance, Racism and prejudice against Romanians combined with the lack of adequate housing laws have given local officials carte blanche to openly discriminate against them. The EU's open borders is drawing increasing numbers of Romanian beggars across the Europe. Helsinki's city council sent a delegation to Romania to find out why Romanians in particular are coming to Finland to beg, and to see what can be done, but the problem has lot to do with the intolerance, racism and prejudice in their own country...the only thing that is missing is the gas chambers for them in Romania.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-23 11:37 by seitan.

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seitan

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Mathijs

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seitan
The open hostility to the EU and immigration is on the rise in Europe and Europe is falling prey to xenophobic right-wing populism as we speak. Racism, being unemployed, having no future, - European populations squeal under financial insecurity at the moment, and not only the EU but also the liberal world view has come under fire. - Austria’s Freedom Party, the Danish Peoples’ Party, the True Finns in Finland (Just this week member of the True Finns party - Tommi Rautio - stated that he would like to give awards to people if they would kill foreigners in Finland, - and this is 2012) and Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom in the Netherlands - to name only few.

[/b]

Wow man, that's sounds like 1933 again! But, I have a feeling you live in a different Europe than I do...

Mathijs

Actually, it´s not the different Europe you live... i would say that: you dont live on this planet. You live on some dream fantasy world where punk is gone and Undercover is guitar driven. Come down here on this planet and face the reality. The only thing that´s missing is concentration camps for Romanians, but while we are waiting.. go to Amnesty International websites and read how Romanians are being treated in Europe - It´s like 1933 again..

Romania’s poorest citizens cannot access adequate housing because of the country’s legal system, Widespread intolerance, Racism and prejudice against Romanians combined with the lack of adequate housing laws have given local officials carte blanche to openly discriminate against them. The EU's open borders is drawing increasing numbers of Romanian beggars across the Europe. Helsinki's city council sent a delegation to Romania to find out why Romanians in particular are coming to Finland to beg, and to see what can be done, but the problem has lot to do with the intolerance, racism and prejudice in their own country

The authorities in Oslo paid the beggars for the bus trip back home to Romania, hoping their troubles would vanish just like that. Dream on!

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seitan

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Mathijs

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seitan
The open hostility to the EU and immigration is on the rise in Europe and Europe is falling prey to xenophobic right-wing populism as we speak. Racism, being unemployed, having no future, - European populations squeal under financial insecurity at the moment, and not only the EU but also the liberal world view has come under fire. - Austria’s Freedom Party, the Danish Peoples’ Party, the True Finns in Finland (Just this week member of the True Finns party - Tommi Rautio - stated that he would like to give awards to people if they would kill foreigners in Finland, - and this is 2012) and Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom in the Netherlands - to name only few.

[/b]

Wow man, that's sounds like 1933 again! But, I have a feeling you live in a different Europe than I do...

Mathijs

Actually, it´s not the different Europe you live... i would say that: you dont live on this planet. You live on some dream fantasy world where punk is gone and Undercover is guitar driven. Come down here on this planet and face the reality. The only thing that´s missing is concentration camps for Romanians, but while we are waiting.. go to Amnesty International websites and read how Romanians are being treated in Europe - It´s like 1933 again..

I would say that it's you who live in a dream fantasy, thinking that these silly "punk band" has any impact on what actually goes on the real world.
In the late 70s/early 80s, punk music was a way of rioting through music and art. But in these times - "punk" it's just another way of presenting themselves in showbusiness; a "label" which so many attention-seeking youngsters hide behind.

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Erik_Snow

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seitan

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Mathijs

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seitan
The open hostility to the EU and immigration is on the rise in Europe and Europe is falling prey to xenophobic right-wing populism as we speak. Racism, being unemployed, having no future, - European populations squeal under financial insecurity at the moment, and not only the EU but also the liberal world view has come under fire. - Austria’s Freedom Party, the Danish Peoples’ Party, the True Finns in Finland (Just this week member of the True Finns party - Tommi Rautio - stated that he would like to give awards to people if they would kill foreigners in Finland, - and this is 2012) and Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom in the Netherlands - to name only few.

[/b]

Wow man, that's sounds like 1933 again! But, I have a feeling you live in a different Europe than I do...

Mathijs

Actually, it´s not the different Europe you live... i would say that: you dont live on this planet. You live on some dream fantasy world where punk is gone and Undercover is guitar driven. Come down here on this planet and face the reality. The only thing that´s missing is concentration camps for Romanians, but while we are waiting.. go to Amnesty International websites and read how Romanians are being treated in Europe - It´s like 1933 again..

I would say that it's you who live in a dream fantasy, thinking that these silly "punk band" has any impact on what actually goes on the real world.
In the late 70s/early 80s, punk music was a way of rioting through music and art. But in these times - "punk" it's just another way of presenting themselves in showbusiness; a "label" which so many attention-seeking youngsters hide behind.

Have we grown that old, Erik?

Appearance will always be a statement in itself, won't it? However, as a political movement, punk IS dead, imo.

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
What exactly wasn't strong with the material on UC? This is really interesting, I think.

Songs like Undercover, She Was Hot, Feel On Baby, Too Much Blood, Too Tough and All The Way Down are to me well-crafted song, and also brilliantly performed.

Are you sure about the songs not being up to par, or is it within the production (synths, drum machines etc.) the critics have a beef with this album? Would be interesting to know.

She Was Hot has maybe the best chorus the Stones ever have written, imo. Rocking, melodic, dynamic and edgy.

If you take "Feel on Baby" (I simply can't stand it) out of the list, that's the best songs of the album you have there. Yeah, they are "well-crafted", that is, techically properly written, but that doesn't make them great songs. I don't find, for example, "Undercover of the Night" musically very inspiring. It has nice lyrics, and helluva drive, but somehow musically thin core as a composition. In that particual song the current trics actaully lift up the song musically. Without its sound experiments it would be rather mediocre tune. For a good reason, it never reached a classical status in Stones canon. I think the same basically hold to other hit potential song - "Too Much Blood" - To me its nice arrangemnet and production ideas, exotic sound experiments hides some of its musical emptiness. There is something annoying or cheap in its melody lines. The rap part is good one, but still somehow tricky. But seemingly these two songs - that are alright an sich - are the ones with which the album will live or die. There some much invested in them, and since they don't fully hit their mark, the album is doomed to fall with them.

"She Was Hot", like 71Tele said in his own words, belongs to their safe and sure notalgia area. I also love its melodic chorus which interestingly breaks the form of trad. Chuck Berry rocker. An equalevent of "Star Star" (that already was a nostalgia cut already in 1973!). For a trad. Rolling Stones fan that is easily the easiest piece to love in the album. Even its video emphasized its nostalgic nature. (It sounds like all the songs I have talked so far were written a specific MTV video in their mind). Probably the best song in the album, even though its lyrical main line starts to sound annoying to a mature mind. It nastily points out to banality we will hear some day in VOODOO LOUNGE.

"Too Tough" and "All The Way Down" are what I called typical Pathe Marconi rockers. The band smokes even though the tunes are rather mediocre ones. Not much inspiration in creating them. The danger of autopolitism is quite near here. In better album these would have been good fillers. Now they are the best of the rest.

- Doxa

"Undercover being a thin composition"... By that criteria, most of the Stones's songs are that, too.

I'm not enjoying Shake Your Hips because of Harpo's interesting composition, I just love the sound, the groove, the use of words and the swing. SWH has the same effect on me.

That goes for numerous Stones-numbers as well. GS has three chords, but the arranging and the energy is ace. Tumbling Dice is a very standard-written song. Still it's one of the best tracks they ever wrote. There is nothing unique about the songwriting on All Down The Line, but the performance is stellar. And list could go on and on...

She Was Hot seemingly is a Berry rocker, but in no way have Berry made a chorus like that, nor have the Stones. And we should be able to agree on a chorus being an important part of the song. Also, on the verses, Mick is singing fantastically, and contributes to this song being way superior to other three chord-rockers as Star Star and Respectable (I like both of those songs, btw).

Undercover goes in the same bag as Miss You, Hot Stuff, Dance and Fingerprint File. What I find interesting is that all of those songs are great, despite their lack of normal composition structure. The reason? The groove and the performance.

Seemingly you read too much to my, I admit, a bit vague expression "somehow musically thin composition", The word "composition" was an unhappy choice but accidents happen. Of course, Jagger or Richards are not any paulsimons or bobdylans or paulmccartneys who might enter with a perfectly written song to the studio. But I wouldn't call "Gimme Shelter", or many other Stones classics - or great blues classic for that matter - "thin", even though they could be made from very simple elements if put them on paper (call them 'thick' instead). I think part of Mick and Keith's genious is to make diamonds out of very simple, raw ideas. That's incredible ability. Things like "All Down The Line", "Tumblin Dice" are simply hypnotic songs. Yeah, the delivery is an essential of the whole deal but I can't distinguish the song from the performance. They stuck together; inspire each other. The Stones are not any damn Status Quo - bless them - in the sense that making songs basically on three-chord base and usual cliches. They usually add something unique to simple elements.

I think "Undercover of The Night" is simply not very strong song. It is basically a talking blues in verses married with their standard dance track "dadadaddaa" chorus a'la "Miss You" and "Emotional Rescue". In theory that could make a damn fine song. But that is not the case this time; the elements lack something to make it a memerable track. It, for example, lacks the hypnotic presence of "Start Me Up" which hits straight to mind. Nor is its groove or riff anything compared to "Miss You". It just lack that "x-factor" that distinguishes great tracks from more mediocre tracks. No matter they would have performed, produced, mixed it, it would never had the status of those two songs (which, by the time of releasing the single, were still like the measure against which Stones singles were rated. The standard was still quite high then). "Undercover of The Night" - like the album altogether - actually was a showcase that the band was "losing it". They were going artistic- and popularwise downhill. With this album they actually failed to present a song that is an instant classic.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-23 13:44 by Doxa.

Punk just another music genre.

Moaning about society and the bad in the world has been around since mankind had the mind to do so.