Tell Me :
Talk
I think that how radio has evolved into this corporate monolith is the reason you're not hearing great new stuff on the radio.
It doesn't mean great music doesn't exist, just have to find it in other places.
it's not that bad so i vote that you are just getting old. very old.
Probably because he jumped the gun and digitized all his vault of recorded material in some less than perfect (probably 16 bit 48KHZ) format and chose to go back and do it all over again at some point as the technology advanced. I recall him bitching about it in the mid-nineties.
That being the case he did give me and some other deserving fellows the award for "best large format mixing console" about that same time. It was a digitally controlled analog desk. Digital control and recall with all the actual music signals going thru discreet electronics and op amps (analog) back in the studio's machine room. We were proud as peacocks. His home studio is called Redwood Digital as a joke because it's about as analog as you can get these days. He even has big servo rotaters on his little Fender Amp knobs to change his guitar sound, all foot switch controlled. He is in a category all to himself. Someone's got to do it. Whoo Hoo Neil! Peace
I agree completely, Midnight Toker. Something has been lost. Whether it is sheer talent which is missing, which may be true to a degree, or the fact that the music is produced differently, it could be a little of both. The actual 'sound' of the music is somehow changed. There seems so little richness and depth.
Well GravityBoy you are close but since you asked:
Audio "Compression" is actually making the louder sounds less so . The process of boosting the volume (gain) of an audio signals softer sounds is called "Expansion". Both processes are done by a good "Dynamics processor" either software or hardware based. The process of doing this to an entire song is also different to the process of doing this dynamics tweaking to individual tracks. Even in the old days almost ALL vocals are expanded and compressed to achieve a good track. It's a good thing when used sparingly and like this.
The process to make consistent volume on radio is something else, It's called "Normalization". Where the average volume of a track is set to a certain level. But this should not necessarily effect the dynamic range (difference between the loudest and softest sounds) .
One thing that has changed too is all the new music is mastered so hot (Higher gain) and Normalised higher and the overall performance usually compressed and expanded (squashed) into a relatively small range of volume differences. The overall effect is that things like drum hits have WAY less effect on us and become something much different than the originally played instruments and vocals. Listen to some early Little Feat and compare the volume to anything produced recently. Feel how Feat's drummer Richie Hayward (RIP) works the dynamics of the drums for maximum effect. You may have to turn the old recordings UP to get the feel you are used to these days, but that is kinda the whole point.
The bottom line is that listening to mp3s is like sitting down to dinner with a box of Cap't Crunch and skim milk.
btw: Love you comment on singer-songwriters stepping up to the plate. Yep. peace
corrected for spelling and grammer
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-11 12:01 by Naturalust.
Thanks.
Whatever happened to protest singers?
There's even more to protest against today.
(Thanks for the compression comments, mine was the dumbed down version of why they strip dynamics from radio.. pubs and clubs as well I suspect).
you've heard most of today's music?
but they haven't released a new album in almost a decade
What? that is probablt the funniest thing I have heard on this board. You can't be serious. The only one I know who is reproducing music with less high and lows is Keith Richards....when he removes the low string on his 6 string guitar. lol Sorry kowalski but your contention is absurd. peace
Absurd? So why Hampton is mastered this way? If not to have the maximum impact when listening to it on an iPod?
Why in 2009 Universal has remastered all Rolling Stones albums in a way they are properly unlistenable on a hi fi system but sound quite good (understand "loud") on ipod tiny earphones?
MP3 market is what music companies aim at today...
well I agree with you there, music companies have lost their aim when it comes to genuine good quality , high fidelity product.
I guess thats what happens when a computer manufacturer (Apple) decides it wants to be the biggest record retailer on the planet and has the cash and clout to pull it off. And it's obvious the artists' record companies are not putting much effort into "artist development".
But thankfully one of the Yings to that than Yang is that it is the golden age of GUITARS and people are making such great instruments these days that great music will surely follow when the players learn how to harness their power.
Live concerts have lost none of there fabulousness, which is one reason we are all aching for the new Stones tour announcement. Rock and Roll is alive and well in this kids heart anyway!
And as Seitan points out so well, there IS good music out there , just sometimes hard to find. Good luck on your search kowalski we'll see you on that road and have a smile for ya! peace
Alright alight ALRIGHT!!!
[thepowergoats.com]
And to the part I quoted, I really agree with
Remembering buy the new New York Dolls album in 2005 or 2006, on CD, and was looking forward to give it a spin. But it was absolutely impossible to enjoy because of the mastering and mixing. Sounded like Metallica playing in a bucket I had to place my head in. No air, no pulse, no nothing when listening to it. Just a wall of noise. That was the first time I was really stunned by the terrible volume-boost and degrading of todays music releases.
ABB also striked me out as a really "dead but noisy listen", soundwise. But no loss for me with that one, as I don't like the record, nomatter how mixed, in either case. And things has only gotten worse after that for new releases.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-11 21:52 by Erik_Snow.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: February 11, 2012 01:26
Quote
memphiscatsRight on! I listen to a lot of music with my 14 year-old daughter & most music on the radio sounds awful. I don't know if I'm just getting old OR is really that bad?? God - are we turning into our parents? Get that crap off the radio! I grew up in the 70s - and yes there as SOME bad music, think "Midnight at the Oasis" & ANYTHING by KC & The Sunshine band, and so on. Perhaps music is always evolving. There might always be dry spells - think about the stuff in the 60s before the Stones & Beatles (and the entire British Invasion) took place. A lot was just bubble gum snappin' songs. Not bad by today's standards but still not great. Is there a "golden age" for various types of music? Did we just happen to live through the best time for rock n' roll? Is it all downhill from here (or there?). Is music like film - did we have our 1939 already?Quote
GravityBoy
Singer-Songwriters need to make a comeback with real songs about real people and the carp we have to deal with today.
Where's Billy Brag?
I think that how radio has evolved into this corporate monolith is the reason you're not hearing great new stuff on the radio.
It doesn't mean great music doesn't exist, just have to find it in other places.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: February 11, 2012 01:52
Quote
memphiscats
Right on! I listen to a lot of music with my 14 year-old daughter & most music on the radio sounds awful. I don't know if I'm just getting old OR is really that bad??
it's not that bad so i vote that you are just getting old. very old.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
memphiscats
()
Date: February 11, 2012 02:00
What's that sonny? Speak up...damn gotta put that hearing aide in again - thanks for the reminderQuote
StonesTodQuote
memphiscats
Right on! I listen to a lot of music with my 14 year-old daughter & most music on the radio sounds awful. I don't know if I'm just getting old OR is really that bad??
it's not that bad so i vote that you are just getting old. very old.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: February 11, 2012 03:12
Quote
71Tele
Neil has been bellyaching about digital since CD's came out in the 80s. God bless him.
Probably because he jumped the gun and digitized all his vault of recorded material in some less than perfect (probably 16 bit 48KHZ) format and chose to go back and do it all over again at some point as the technology advanced. I recall him bitching about it in the mid-nineties.
That being the case he did give me and some other deserving fellows the award for "best large format mixing console" about that same time. It was a digitally controlled analog desk. Digital control and recall with all the actual music signals going thru discreet electronics and op amps (analog) back in the studio's machine room. We were proud as peacocks. His home studio is called Redwood Digital as a joke because it's about as analog as you can get these days. He even has big servo rotaters on his little Fender Amp knobs to change his guitar sound, all foot switch controlled. He is in a category all to himself. Someone's got to do it. Whoo Hoo Neil! Peace
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
superrevvy
()
Date: February 11, 2012 05:01
Mick Fleetwood on the MP3 ‘Dumbing Down’ of Music
Published: Friday, 10 Feb 2012 CNBC
A generation of music lovers is getting ripped off.
That's the feeling among audiophiles who say that MP3 compression, which has
made music portable, affordable, and packable on small devices, has ruined the
music.
In some cases, it’s ruining your ears.
"There's been an overdose, in my opinion, of this altering of the original
sound," says Mick Fleetwood of Fleetwood Mac.
For years, Fleetwood and other artists like Neil Young have decried the "dumbing
down" of their master recordings through MP3. Some of them have been developing
technologies to try to restore the original sound, or at least improve upon it.
But often that restoration results in songs taking up a lot more memory.
Suddenly, your digital player goes from being able to hold 20,000 songs to,
like, 100.
Fleetwood has joined the advisory board of a company called Max Sound, which is
releasing its new MAXD technology this weekend at the Grammys. In an exclusive
interview with CNBC, Fleetwood joined Max Sound CEO John Blaisure in explaining
how the technology works.
The company acquired the rights to software developed by Lloyd Trammell, a
highly regarded sound engineer who created the first Surround Sound system.
Trammell has come up with a process to restore the high and low ends of the
sound wave which are cut off in the compression process, somehow managing to do
this while keeping the entire music file the same size. "It (the software) sees
all of the data still in there, it says 'I know what you are and I know where
you belong,' and it literally reshapes that perfect wave sign within that file
size," says Blaisure. "At the same time, it discards all of the trash caused by
that compression."
The company gave me a demonstration, playing several songs, alternating between
the MP3 version, and then streamed through MAXD software.
You really can tell the difference.
"It was gobstopping," says Fleetwood about the first time he heard it. He says
even a child could recognize the difference, and the resulting music creates an
emotional response. "I went, 'thank God' we can get out of this prison, this
sonic prison that I consider that the whole world has been put into."
Max Sound will soon release a free Android app which will allow you to stream
your MP3 songs through the software and have it restored in real time. Once
that's up and running, they plan to launch their Apple app with future rollouts
planned for Windows and Apple Desktop APPs. Eventually, the company hopes to
make money by allowing you to convert your entire MP3 collection and store it on
a device for much less money than buying the songs outright all over again,
though it is also building its own music store in case you want to do that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-11 05:02 by superrevvy.
Published: Friday, 10 Feb 2012 CNBC
A generation of music lovers is getting ripped off.
That's the feeling among audiophiles who say that MP3 compression, which has
made music portable, affordable, and packable on small devices, has ruined the
music.
In some cases, it’s ruining your ears.
"There's been an overdose, in my opinion, of this altering of the original
sound," says Mick Fleetwood of Fleetwood Mac.
For years, Fleetwood and other artists like Neil Young have decried the "dumbing
down" of their master recordings through MP3. Some of them have been developing
technologies to try to restore the original sound, or at least improve upon it.
But often that restoration results in songs taking up a lot more memory.
Suddenly, your digital player goes from being able to hold 20,000 songs to,
like, 100.
Fleetwood has joined the advisory board of a company called Max Sound, which is
releasing its new MAXD technology this weekend at the Grammys. In an exclusive
interview with CNBC, Fleetwood joined Max Sound CEO John Blaisure in explaining
how the technology works.
The company acquired the rights to software developed by Lloyd Trammell, a
highly regarded sound engineer who created the first Surround Sound system.
Trammell has come up with a process to restore the high and low ends of the
sound wave which are cut off in the compression process, somehow managing to do
this while keeping the entire music file the same size. "It (the software) sees
all of the data still in there, it says 'I know what you are and I know where
you belong,' and it literally reshapes that perfect wave sign within that file
size," says Blaisure. "At the same time, it discards all of the trash caused by
that compression."
The company gave me a demonstration, playing several songs, alternating between
the MP3 version, and then streamed through MAXD software.
You really can tell the difference.
"It was gobstopping," says Fleetwood about the first time he heard it. He says
even a child could recognize the difference, and the resulting music creates an
emotional response. "I went, 'thank God' we can get out of this prison, this
sonic prison that I consider that the whole world has been put into."
Max Sound will soon release a free Android app which will allow you to stream
your MP3 songs through the software and have it restored in real time. Once
that's up and running, they plan to launch their Apple app with future rollouts
planned for Windows and Apple Desktop APPs. Eventually, the company hopes to
make money by allowing you to convert your entire MP3 collection and store it on
a device for much less money than buying the songs outright all over again,
though it is also building its own music store in case you want to do that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-11 05:02 by superrevvy.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
Markdog
()
Date: February 11, 2012 05:47
Sound quality is not better then in the 70's. I listen to Ya Ya's from 69 and really don't hear better mix or dynamics since. It's not just compressing music (mp3s) but sound engineers and master recorders like everything so LOUD the dynamics are lost. Maybe analog has something to do with it. Leaving the beauty of a nicely tuned snare drum alone in it's natural state, not over thinking it and playing with it like it needs improvement just because you can change it.
Sound quality never improved since the 70's IMO.
This is my own recording on a tascam dp01fx. I think it's good but that is just me maybe. Drums recorded with 2 mics only. Natural even if playing is so so.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-11 05:48 by Markdog.
Sound quality never improved since the 70's IMO.
This is my own recording on a tascam dp01fx. I think it's good but that is just me maybe. Drums recorded with 2 mics only. Natural even if playing is so so.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-11 05:48 by Markdog.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
flacnvinyl
()
Date: February 11, 2012 07:20
Not a bad recording you have there!
The Fleetwood/Max article is interesting, but I can't see this really taking off in a permanent way. If the programmer has developed an algorithm to un-compress mp3s into a dynamic audio format, what would it do to wav files? Add stuff that doesn't exist? I would love to hear a L/R comparison of the Max/mp3 conversion, to a raw wav. Would there be sonic and tonal differences, or just quality variations? Might be interesting.
I completely agree about the mixing and mastering being way too loud these days. Thankfully there are still bands (Wilco, Besnard Lakes, Field Music, Radiohead) who care about proper recording and mixing techniques, not just volume. Those recordings sound great no matter what format. I love hearing Wilco's Ghost on vinyl, but I also love hearing it in my car on mp3!
The Fleetwood/Max article is interesting, but I can't see this really taking off in a permanent way. If the programmer has developed an algorithm to un-compress mp3s into a dynamic audio format, what would it do to wav files? Add stuff that doesn't exist? I would love to hear a L/R comparison of the Max/mp3 conversion, to a raw wav. Would there be sonic and tonal differences, or just quality variations? Might be interesting.
I completely agree about the mixing and mastering being way too loud these days. Thankfully there are still bands (Wilco, Besnard Lakes, Field Music, Radiohead) who care about proper recording and mixing techniques, not just volume. Those recordings sound great no matter what format. I love hearing Wilco's Ghost on vinyl, but I also love hearing it in my car on mp3!
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
Midnight Toker
()
Date: February 11, 2012 07:36
as a person in his 50's, i am blessed to have grown up with the stones,beatles,who,dylan,cream,CCR,led zep,pink floyd,queen,springsteen,the kinks,faces and a few others i may be neglecting.
i am happy that i grew up when i did. sure i would have loved having a pC and a cell phone for convenience, but i will take the old days, any day.
most music today sucks IMO. nothing without any longevity. here today and gone tomorrow.
i am happy that i grew up when i did. sure i would have loved having a pC and a cell phone for convenience, but i will take the old days, any day.
most music today sucks IMO. nothing without any longevity. here today and gone tomorrow.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: February 11, 2012 07:50
Music is no longer the Force that it was. I don't drive along and hear pop songs that transport me for 3 minutes to somewhere interesting. That ship has sailed. Usually there's some form of art that supersedes another one, like TV did with radio. Nothing has replaced the good music from the 50s-early 80s, but I knew older people who pined for Big Band music. But I truly don't think music has that much meaning in younger people's lives. Maybe that's why they don't seem to demand as much from their artists, or the artists themselves don't demand as much from themselves.
Yes, you can cast your net wider and find music cuts from all over the world, but there's no such thing as excitedly buying a new album and listening intently to the whole thing. It's over. For the first time in a long time the new generation of musical artists have failed to raise the bar higher. The last 100 years were an amazing time in music from jazz to blues to rock. Maybe it's time for the fields to lay fallow.
Yes, you can cast your net wider and find music cuts from all over the world, but there's no such thing as excitedly buying a new album and listening intently to the whole thing. It's over. For the first time in a long time the new generation of musical artists have failed to raise the bar higher. The last 100 years were an amazing time in music from jazz to blues to rock. Maybe it's time for the fields to lay fallow.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: February 11, 2012 09:05
Correct me if I'm wrong.
MP3 does not compress dynamics just data. This results in the loss of detail (really high and low freqiencies) plus fewer time slices. Dynamics are still intact but the audio quality is less.
Audio compression is different to data compression.
Audio compression is the decision in the studio to boost low volume in the mix and it is THAT that reduces dynamics and THAT which affects every audio format.
The reason for audio compression is for consistent volume on radio, tv and in the car. It makes the track "in your face" regardless of format.
MP3 does not compress dynamics just data. This results in the loss of detail (really high and low freqiencies) plus fewer time slices. Dynamics are still intact but the audio quality is less.
Audio compression is different to data compression.
Audio compression is the decision in the studio to boost low volume in the mix and it is THAT that reduces dynamics and THAT which affects every audio format.
The reason for audio compression is for consistent volume on radio, tv and in the car. It makes the track "in your face" regardless of format.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
Edward Twining
()
Date: February 11, 2012 09:40
Quote
Midnight Toker
as a person in his 50's, i am blessed to have grown up with the stones,beatles,who,dylan,cream,CCR,led zep,pink floyd,queen,springsteen,the kinks,faces and a few others i may be neglecting.
i am happy that i grew up when i did. sure i would have loved having a pC and a cell phone for convenience, but i will take the old days, any day.
most music today sucks IMO. nothing without any longevity. here today and gone tomorrow.
I agree completely, Midnight Toker. Something has been lost. Whether it is sheer talent which is missing, which may be true to a degree, or the fact that the music is produced differently, it could be a little of both. The actual 'sound' of the music is somehow changed. There seems so little richness and depth.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
NoCode0680
()
Date: February 11, 2012 10:44
I didn't grow up in the 60's or 70's. I wasn't even alive. I was a teenager in the 90's, and while I LOVED the music of my time (Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots, Soundgarden, etc) I was well aware of the fact that something was different in terms of technical skill. There were some really great guitarists, but the pickings were kind of slim.
My point is that I wasn't some "old man living in the past", I was a teenager who was fully on board with the music at the time, but I was realistic enough to see that something was missing.
One of the characters in a film from the period called "Singles" said what I had been thinking:
"Where are the anthems of our youth? The Who at the King Dome, KISS at the Colosseum? Where is the Misty Mountain Hop, where is the Smoke On The Water, where is the Iron Man of today?"
And even though I loved and still love the music of the 90's, I spent most of my music money on Classic Rock. And it wasn't nostalgia, because I wasn't alive when any of it was recorded. So much classic rock just clicked the first time I heard it, and it wasn't just a matter of technical skill, it takes more than good guitar playing to impress me, it was the feeling in their playing. It's not just classic in the sense that it's old, but to me they were instant classics.
Also, I think as society has evolved, musicianship has devolved. The world becomes a faster and busier place. More options for young people to divide their time across, whereas in the days of Clapton, Hendrix, Page or whoever they had limited options. No video games to tie up their time, no internet, etc. And even those that pick up the guitar learn it differently. There are teachers, or tabs to read on the internet. I think there's something to be said for the way the older generation learned. By ear and by feel, intently listening to a record and figuring it out, forging a relationship with their instrument and learning by feeling as opposed to learning by theory.
There are some exception of course, kids will come along with a passion, and assuming they don't pick up Guitar Hero instead of a guitar, the ones with natural talent (or maybe just enough commitment) will have something to offer. There is some good music out there (it's subjective I know), but I think as time passes the talent pool is dwindling. It seems they are fewer and farther between.
I listen to new music, and while I like some of it, none of it seems timeless, or like something I'll be listening to 10 years from now, much less 50.
My point is that I wasn't some "old man living in the past", I was a teenager who was fully on board with the music at the time, but I was realistic enough to see that something was missing.
One of the characters in a film from the period called "Singles" said what I had been thinking:
"Where are the anthems of our youth? The Who at the King Dome, KISS at the Colosseum? Where is the Misty Mountain Hop, where is the Smoke On The Water, where is the Iron Man of today?"
And even though I loved and still love the music of the 90's, I spent most of my music money on Classic Rock. And it wasn't nostalgia, because I wasn't alive when any of it was recorded. So much classic rock just clicked the first time I heard it, and it wasn't just a matter of technical skill, it takes more than good guitar playing to impress me, it was the feeling in their playing. It's not just classic in the sense that it's old, but to me they were instant classics.
Also, I think as society has evolved, musicianship has devolved. The world becomes a faster and busier place. More options for young people to divide their time across, whereas in the days of Clapton, Hendrix, Page or whoever they had limited options. No video games to tie up their time, no internet, etc. And even those that pick up the guitar learn it differently. There are teachers, or tabs to read on the internet. I think there's something to be said for the way the older generation learned. By ear and by feel, intently listening to a record and figuring it out, forging a relationship with their instrument and learning by feeling as opposed to learning by theory.
There are some exception of course, kids will come along with a passion, and assuming they don't pick up Guitar Hero instead of a guitar, the ones with natural talent (or maybe just enough commitment) will have something to offer. There is some good music out there (it's subjective I know), but I think as time passes the talent pool is dwindling. It seems they are fewer and farther between.
I listen to new music, and while I like some of it, none of it seems timeless, or like something I'll be listening to 10 years from now, much less 50.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: February 11, 2012 10:52
I think pop/rock music is going through the same process that classic music must have gone through.
People still write classical music today.. but does anyone take any notice.
I suspect the "youth anthems" / "totems" of today's youth are not actually related to music as we traditionally know it.
They will talk about something in "Call of Duty" or "Halo" or some such.
People still write classical music today.. but does anyone take any notice.
I suspect the "youth anthems" / "totems" of today's youth are not actually related to music as we traditionally know it.
They will talk about something in "Call of Duty" or "Halo" or some such.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
stonesdan60
()
Date: February 11, 2012 11:00
Quote
jamesfdouglas
People who think that there's no good music being made today have only themselves to blame for their laziness, their surrender to nostalgic insulation preventing from the joys of discovery.
quote]
Excellent point. There will always be brilliant artists writing and recording great music. The problem today is that it's harder to find them than it was for those of us who grew up in an era when radio stations played Dylan, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, etc. What does radio play today? Rap crap or "classic rock" where the entire legacy of so many great artists is reduced to the same five songs played over and over. At least around me, I can't find a good radio station that plays and promotes NEW rock music by NEW OR CURRENT artists. One has to search to find the great artists that are out there, and they are out there. Now as for digital music...well, others have said it better.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: February 11, 2012 11:06
Neil is disgusted by the fact that people settle for a much inferior product (mp3) and find nothing bad about it.
If someone told you "hey I watched "Avatar" last night... on the screen of my Iphone" you'd think "that dude is stupid".
To Neil listening to music on mp3 format is probably like watching "Avatar" on an Iphone.
If someone told you "hey I watched "Avatar" last night... on the screen of my Iphone" you'd think "that dude is stupid".
To Neil listening to music on mp3 format is probably like watching "Avatar" on an Iphone.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: February 11, 2012 11:47
Quote
GravityBoy
Correct me if I'm wrong.
MP3 does not compress dynamics just data. This results in the loss of detail (really high and low freqiencies) plus fewer time slices. Dynamics are still intact but the audio quality is less.
Audio compression is different to data compression.
Audio compression is the decision in the studio to boost low volume in the mix and it is THAT that reduces dynamics and THAT which affects every audio format.
The reason for audio compression is for consistent volume on radio, tv and in the car. It makes the track "in your face" regardless of format.
Well GravityBoy you are close but since you asked:
Audio "Compression" is actually making the louder sounds less so . The process of boosting the volume (gain) of an audio signals softer sounds is called "Expansion". Both processes are done by a good "Dynamics processor" either software or hardware based. The process of doing this to an entire song is also different to the process of doing this dynamics tweaking to individual tracks. Even in the old days almost ALL vocals are expanded and compressed to achieve a good track. It's a good thing when used sparingly and like this.
The process to make consistent volume on radio is something else, It's called "Normalization". Where the average volume of a track is set to a certain level. But this should not necessarily effect the dynamic range (difference between the loudest and softest sounds) .
One thing that has changed too is all the new music is mastered so hot (Higher gain) and Normalised higher and the overall performance usually compressed and expanded (squashed) into a relatively small range of volume differences. The overall effect is that things like drum hits have WAY less effect on us and become something much different than the originally played instruments and vocals. Listen to some early Little Feat and compare the volume to anything produced recently. Feel how Feat's drummer Richie Hayward (RIP) works the dynamics of the drums for maximum effect. You may have to turn the old recordings UP to get the feel you are used to these days, but that is kinda the whole point.
The bottom line is that listening to mp3s is like sitting down to dinner with a box of Cap't Crunch and skim milk.
btw: Love you comment on singer-songwriters stepping up to the plate. Yep. peace
corrected for spelling and grammer
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-11 12:01 by Naturalust.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: February 11, 2012 12:33
Quote
Naturalust
btw: Love you comment on singer-songwriters stepping up to the plate. Yep. peace
Thanks.
Whatever happened to protest singers?
There's even more to protest against today.
(Thanks for the compression comments, mine was the dumbed down version of why they strip dynamics from radio.. pubs and clubs as well I suspect).
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: February 11, 2012 13:16
There's even more to protest against today.
Yes an unfortunately fertile playing field it is these days. peace
Yes an unfortunately fertile playing field it is these days. peace
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
steel driving hammer
()
Date: February 11, 2012 13:31
I agree with the decline of music quality.
Most of my Stones bootlegs are audience recorded.
Most of my Stones bootlegs are audience recorded.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: February 11, 2012 14:45
Quote
Midnight Toker
most music today sucks IMO. nothing without any longevity. here today and gone tomorrow.
you've heard most of today's music?
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
kowalski
()
Date: February 11, 2012 16:09
Today's music has lost the magic because it's made for listening it as mp3.
Most recent releases sound flat. With no contrast and everything at the same level. Wherever it's an acoustic ballad or a rocker it will sound the same.
That's one of the reasons that make bands such as Radiohead, Coldplay or Arcade Fire successful : they make music that fits today's music listening habits. No asperities, no highs and lows, no contrast, no dynamics.
When Stones producers try to apply this trend to Stones music it doesn't work because their songs need contrast and dynamics. I really like Stones latest work and I think they released some of their finest work recently. But it's been hampered by the way music is produced today. My wish is some audiophile label could re-release Stones latest efforts with a respectful mastering.
Most recent releases sound flat. With no contrast and everything at the same level. Wherever it's an acoustic ballad or a rocker it will sound the same.
That's one of the reasons that make bands such as Radiohead, Coldplay or Arcade Fire successful : they make music that fits today's music listening habits. No asperities, no highs and lows, no contrast, no dynamics.
When Stones producers try to apply this trend to Stones music it doesn't work because their songs need contrast and dynamics. I really like Stones latest work and I think they released some of their finest work recently. But it's been hampered by the way music is produced today. My wish is some audiophile label could re-release Stones latest efforts with a respectful mastering.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: February 11, 2012 16:12
Quote
kowalski
I really like Stones latest work and I think they released some of their finest work recently.
but they haven't released a new album in almost a decade
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: February 11, 2012 18:03
Quote
kowalski
Today's music has lost the magic because it's made for listening it as mp3.
.
What? that is probablt the funniest thing I have heard on this board. You can't be serious. The only one I know who is reproducing music with less high and lows is Keith Richards....when he removes the low string on his 6 string guitar. lol Sorry kowalski but your contention is absurd. peace
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
kowalski
()
Date: February 11, 2012 19:47
Quote
NaturalustQuote
kowalski
Today's music has lost the magic because it's made for listening it as mp3.
.
What? that is probablt the funniest thing I have heard on this board. You can't be serious. The only one I know who is reproducing music with less high and lows is Keith Richards....when he removes the low string on his 6 string guitar. lol Sorry kowalski but your contention is absurd. peace
Absurd? So why Hampton is mastered this way? If not to have the maximum impact when listening to it on an iPod?
Why in 2009 Universal has remastered all Rolling Stones albums in a way they are properly unlistenable on a hi fi system but sound quite good (understand "loud") on ipod tiny earphones?
MP3 market is what music companies aim at today...
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
seitan
()
Date: February 11, 2012 20:03
There´s no point in being lazy. What do you get from saying: aah ...the music nowadays suck, - Oh, really - if you only listen to the mainstream music from mainstream radio and TV - if you dont search and pay for good music - then it's just like complaining about being hungry and sick - when all you do is eat at the MCDonalds.
If you want to have a good meal - you need to pay for it.
Probleam today is that young people dont want to pay for music - they want to download everything for free, this so called "file sharing" - yeah, it´s a another word for " product stealing" - and it hurts the whole music industry - Less you pay, The more crap you get - There is no industry in the world that can work without money - If the labour dont get paid, the production stops, - and all you get is substitute crap. Fake.
Yeah, the mainstream radio sucks - no wonder:
Record companies want every artist to be a product - that´s the probleam - they want something to sell. Money. It´s biz. Nobody in the mainstream music industry is interested in creating anything new. When I listen to radio or watch TV - I dont hear anyone playing anything that I havent heard before or anything that hasnt been done better already.
Record companies are interested in selling pieces of products..not art. The problem is that they only want to make money - they are more interested in image of the artist - than the content and value of the music.
If you want to find good music - you have to look for it. The real deal is never in the mainstream, it´s outside of the corporate music industry. That´s one of the great things about the internet - if you want to find good music - go and check out smaller labels and pirate radio stations, where there is no formula.
The mainstream radio stations are only selling products to the younger generations - and young people dont know about the history of the music - how could they - they are kids - and that´s why you got youre Hannah Montana's and your Clash wanna be -Green Days
That´s why young kids make a big deal out of Lady Gaga´s style and image. But older people know that Lady Gaga stole her image from 70's David Bowie. " Let´s wear crazy clothes..like Ziggy Stardust, - Come on - Like Marilyn Manson pretending to be Alice Cooper. It´s nothing new - but we are all looking for good music,
Everybody wants to hear good music. And there´s million great artist out there...but they are outside of the mainstream - so dont be lazy. Go find them.
If you want to have a good meal - you need to pay for it.
Probleam today is that young people dont want to pay for music - they want to download everything for free, this so called "file sharing" - yeah, it´s a another word for " product stealing" - and it hurts the whole music industry - Less you pay, The more crap you get - There is no industry in the world that can work without money - If the labour dont get paid, the production stops, - and all you get is substitute crap. Fake.
Yeah, the mainstream radio sucks - no wonder:
Record companies want every artist to be a product - that´s the probleam - they want something to sell. Money. It´s biz. Nobody in the mainstream music industry is interested in creating anything new. When I listen to radio or watch TV - I dont hear anyone playing anything that I havent heard before or anything that hasnt been done better already.
Record companies are interested in selling pieces of products..not art. The problem is that they only want to make money - they are more interested in image of the artist - than the content and value of the music.
If you want to find good music - you have to look for it. The real deal is never in the mainstream, it´s outside of the corporate music industry. That´s one of the great things about the internet - if you want to find good music - go and check out smaller labels and pirate radio stations, where there is no formula.
The mainstream radio stations are only selling products to the younger generations - and young people dont know about the history of the music - how could they - they are kids - and that´s why you got youre Hannah Montana's and your Clash wanna be -Green Days
That´s why young kids make a big deal out of Lady Gaga´s style and image. But older people know that Lady Gaga stole her image from 70's David Bowie. " Let´s wear crazy clothes..like Ziggy Stardust, - Come on - Like Marilyn Manson pretending to be Alice Cooper. It´s nothing new - but we are all looking for good music,
Everybody wants to hear good music. And there´s million great artist out there...but they are outside of the mainstream - so dont be lazy. Go find them.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: February 11, 2012 20:29
Quote
kowalski
what music companies aim at today...
well I agree with you there, music companies have lost their aim when it comes to genuine good quality , high fidelity product.
I guess thats what happens when a computer manufacturer (Apple) decides it wants to be the biggest record retailer on the planet and has the cash and clout to pull it off. And it's obvious the artists' record companies are not putting much effort into "artist development".
But thankfully one of the Yings to that than Yang is that it is the golden age of GUITARS and people are making such great instruments these days that great music will surely follow when the players learn how to harness their power.
Live concerts have lost none of there fabulousness, which is one reason we are all aching for the new Stones tour announcement. Rock and Roll is alive and well in this kids heart anyway!
And as Seitan points out so well, there IS good music out there , just sometimes hard to find. Good luck on your search kowalski we'll see you on that road and have a smile for ya! peace
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: February 11, 2012 20:52
Great points Seitan.
I too, see it like there is plenty, more than plenty good music out there. If there is one thing all this new technology has brought along, it is laying out more and more possibilities of twisting and combining them. New sounds, new tricks. There must be way more people wanting to make music nowadays because rock;n roll has become so much of our consciousness. The image (an $) of the rockstar is not a rebel anymore; it has become an accepted goal, I guess. While we get more crap, we also get lots of good.
But another great point Seitan makes is that since no one wants to pay for music, they are only going to get what is easiest and first in line. And that will be what the companies lay down for you.
I too, see it like there is plenty, more than plenty good music out there. If there is one thing all this new technology has brought along, it is laying out more and more possibilities of twisting and combining them. New sounds, new tricks. There must be way more people wanting to make music nowadays because rock;n roll has become so much of our consciousness. The image (an $) of the rockstar is not a rebel anymore; it has become an accepted goal, I guess. While we get more crap, we also get lots of good.
But another great point Seitan makes is that since no one wants to pay for music, they are only going to get what is easiest and first in line. And that will be what the companies lay down for you.
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
jamesfdouglas
()
Date: February 11, 2012 21:23
Quote
mtaylorQuote
Rockman
He's talking strictly about the quality of the post-production - the mastering and format, the delivery, not if bands suck.
.....exactlyexactly
Alright alight ALRIGHT!!!
[thepowergoats.com]
Re: The decline of music quality
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: February 11, 2012 21:48
Quote
kowalski
Today's music has lost the magic because it's made for listening it as mp3.
Most recent releases sound flat. With no contrast and everything at the same level. Wherever it's an acoustic ballad or a rocker it will sound the same.
That's one of the reasons that make bands such as Radiohead, Coldplay or Arcade Fire successful : they make music that fits today's music listening habits. No asperities, no highs and lows, no contrast, no dynamics.
When Stones producers try to apply this trend to Stones music it doesn't work because their songs need contrast and dynamics.
And to the part I quoted, I really agree with
Remembering buy the new New York Dolls album in 2005 or 2006, on CD, and was looking forward to give it a spin. But it was absolutely impossible to enjoy because of the mastering and mixing. Sounded like Metallica playing in a bucket I had to place my head in. No air, no pulse, no nothing when listening to it. Just a wall of noise. That was the first time I was really stunned by the terrible volume-boost and degrading of todays music releases.
ABB also striked me out as a really "dead but noisy listen", soundwise. But no loss for me with that one, as I don't like the record, nomatter how mixed, in either case. And things has only gotten worse after that for new releases.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-11 21:52 by Erik_Snow.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
Boett , eibert , hj3009 , Joce , johnnythunders , keefgotsoul , KRDGilbert , madrid82 , NilsHolgersson , NoPanic , rootsman , stoned52 , straycatuk , superglen , thecitadel , thetiger , wolundamo
Guests:
1035
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10