I would guess the first "so called" feud would have been Mick doing his solo project "She's The Boss". It can't be said that it spilled over into Mick's refusal to tour "Dirty Work" if Charlie wasn't in any shape to tour.

If the next feud was over Keith's book, then that would make only 2 feuds in close to 50 years.

They probably feuded over something at Edith Grove.

...Who was gonna sit against the window on that Dartford train in 1961...



ROCKMAN

Or who wanted the bucket while playing in the sandpit when they were 4.

Maybe in 1969 after that scene in Performance.

Or who wanted the bucket while playing in the sandpit when they were 4.




..... heck klrkcr you know you just might be right there 'cause
they were still fightin' over that friggin' bucket right up into the early eighties .....



ROCKMAN

Yeah Rockman,they've never f@&$en forgot about it!!

The price of the ice cream cone.

A lot of the tension started when after Undercover was finished and the Stones and Jagger as a solo act signed a record contract with CBS/Columbia Records in the mid 1980s.

htttp://www.last.fm/user/rocknrollcola

Over Anita

Mick Taylor mentioned they were going through a feud around the time he ended up quitting.

I'd agree with ChelsKeith that it's the PERFORMANCE incident. It's the first one that mattered anyway even though it may have gone unspoken at the time. Reading LIFE it certainly seems to be the one that all other feuds are built upon as far as Keith is concerned. I suspect it wasn't of any real importance to Mick, but that probalby only made it worse in the long run.

I would say it started with Anita at the filming of Performance, 68, and there was very bad blood at Nellcote, specifically because Mick kept going back to Paris during recording sessions and later there was a question of whether Mick was the father of Anita's baby. Keith and Anita detested Bianca, who came on the scene in 70, and the feeling was mutual, so Mick and Keith could not spend extended time together as they had when Mick and Marianne were a couple - Marianne and Anita were (and are) close friends.

Mick Taylor mentions that there was a rift when he left, 74-75, and in Life, Keith says the rift came about when Mick signed a contract to do solo albums.

So I would say it started during Performance, and specific later events deepened it. But Mick Taylor's recollection is that they weren't working together in 74-75, and that would be the blueprint for the future, til the rapprochement in the late 80s.

I agree Mick doing Anita obviously started the bad blood flowing even if it
was not years later that the wounds gushed.

Upon further reflection I've decided it was a necessary operation, and not just
Mick being a scumbag.

It was necessary for Mick and Keith to break away from Marianne and Anita,
so the dirty deed was somewhat successful in that it at least served to remove
Marianne from the picture. Too bad Keith didn't get this wake-up call about
Anita's true nature.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-23 11:00 by superrevvy.

I've read that they've had their creative differences all along as anyone would, but that they really began to seriously fight around the time of recording Emotional Rescue, as Keith felt Mick was too preoccupied with whatever was currently popular and selling. Keith wanted to keep the Stones about rock and roll and Mick was leaning more towards dance and club music. Of course things really got bad when Mick announced his solo deal.

Quote
klrkcr
Or who wanted the bucket while playing in the sandpit when they were 4.

I dont think they were friends really. Their relationship is more like John Lennon and George Harrisson who looked up to John Lennon and felt hurt by his actions later on. Their first fight wasnt a fight, 1968, Mick sleeps with Anita and Keith seeks deeper into heroin and gets addicted. Mick carries on and when Keith cleans up in 1980 they fight when Keith realizes Mick doesnt treat him like a friend nor a companion. And then the WWIII thing when Mick finally leaves the band and Keith. The Vegas story is likley Keith wanting to be Micks best pal again.

I still wonder when Mick heard about Keith sleeping with Marianne (I am talking about Marianne´s version of the story) although he knew that Mick was in love with her. Maybe that started the bad blood.

I think everything begun during Nellcote and after MJ marriage with Bianca. The relationship between Mick and Keith begun to get cold and more distant.

Quote
KeithNacho
I think everything begun during Nellcote and after MJ marriage with Bianca. The relationship between Mick and Keith begun to get cold and more distant.

True; Keith resented Mick's frequent leaving the Exile sessions to be with Bianca as well as Mick's becoming more of a jet-setting socialite while Keith remained a down and dirty rocker. Then, when Keith was finally off heroin and wanted more involvement in band decisions and such, he thought Mick would appreciate his help. Mick is said to have wished Keith had stayed a junkie so he would lay back and let Mick retain as much control over the Stones as possible. Keith was rather hurt that Mick didn't want to share the running of the band.

Jorge luis Borges said that the Falklands Conflict was "Two bald men fighting over a comb", a pathetic feud. A feud over musical differences, however, doesn't involve the loss of life though.

In much the same way that Jagger's feud with Richards is pathetic, pointless, absurd, so we have a scenario where even the tiniest thing is blown out into epic proportions. Musical directions, women, drugs, social behaviour, even record collections are turned into weapons in a pointless propaganda war. The team dynamic becomes like Achilles squabbling with Agamemnon in the Iliad, i.e. I'll sulk over a slave girl in my tent, and then, when the chips are down, I'll come back and we'll be a winning team again. The story is as "Old as sin" to quote J J Cale, and Mick and Keith continue to behave, as old men hitting 70, as feuding princelings, awaiting reunification to win money for themselves, or, mores the point, when solo material doesn't sell as much as the imprimatur The Rolling Stones, then they will come back.

Sentiment, i.e. 50 years a group, doesn't come into it. Remuneration and a healthy cash box do. When did the feuding start ? Possibly, and probably, if money remains the prima facie matter, when Allen Klein took over their business affairs, or even Andrew Loog Oldham, and it became a divide and conquer scenario, i.e. with Brian contributing less and less, and songwriting being the sole preserve of Mick and Keith.

A few key-words I picked up in this thread:

I would guess
They probably
Maybe
might be
it certainly seems
I suspect
I would say
that would be
obviously
I've read that
I dont think
is likley
I still wonder
I think
he thought
Mick is said
Possibly, and probably

I love it when everything is so clear

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

Quote
stonesdan60

Quote
KeithNacho
I think everything begun during Nellcote and after MJ marriage with Bianca. The relationship between Mick and Keith begun to get cold and more distant.

True; Keith resented Mick's frequent leaving the Exile sessions to be with Bianca as well as Mick's becoming more of a jet-setting socialite while Keith remained a down and dirty rocker. Then, when Keith was finally off heroin and wanted more involvement in band decisions and such, he thought Mick would appreciate his help. Mick is said to have wished Keith had stayed a junkie so he would lay back and let Mick retain as much control over the Stones as possible. Keith was rather hurt that Mick didn't want to share the running of the band.

Enough to repeat old myths. Read their interviews around 2010 re-issue of Exile and you can see what and how it really was. Mick lived with Bianca in a rented house near Nellcote and he was absent not at the actual sessions but during ongoing drug party in KR's house.
Bianca gave birth in October and only then Jagger had gone to Paris. In fact at this time they have already stopped recording, the clouds began to thicken over Nellcote due to Richard's excessive involvement with drug dealers in southern France. And this attracted the attention of police to the Stones. They left France in November.
Come on, all that crap about "Jagger was jet-setting socialite" and Richards was "down and dirty rocker"
Richards was primarily a junkie, who more and more sank into his addiction. He could not and would not communicate with his peers - other musicians, the artists, the actors. His circle of communication were dealers and hangers-on. Let's say not the most creatively stimulating company.
It is really not surprising that Mick preferred to hang with Andy Warhol, Jack Nicholson, Eric Clapton and David Bowie, - you call them "jet-set", I'll call them creative elite of the time.

Quote
Rolling Hansie
A few key-words I picked up in this thread:

I would guess
They probably
Maybe
might be
it certainly seems
I suspect
I would say
that would be
obviously
I've read that
I dont think
is likley
I still wonder
I think
he thought
Mick is said
Possibly, and probably

I love it when everything is so clear

Those words are fitting since we don't know for sure...

Good point, why don't we have more posts with phrases like "I remember Mick telling me..." or "I'll never forget what Keith said that day..."

I wonder why that is?

Quote
WilliamPatrickMaynard
Good point, why don't we have more posts with phrases like "I remember Mick telling me..." or "I'll never forget what Keith said that day..."

I wonder why that is?

Well, actually we do have direct quotes, in print, eg, Mick Taylor telling us that Mick and Keith had stopped working together in 74-75, and Keith telling us in his autobiography that the cause of their rift was Mick signing a contract to do solo work in the early 80s.

this is how it went down. i was a soundman on the set. you could see that anita
was being particularly aggressive in turning mick on, sorta daring him. and you
could see mick not backing down at all, but not taking the lead either. until anita
had turned herself on even more than mick and pulled him into her. and only then
did mick set himself loose on her. only when it was clear that it was she who was
the seductor...

this bit of fan fiction is dedicated to "bliss" who has always been a big fan of
my fiction.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-23 16:10 by superrevvy.

?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-23 17:02 by Bliss.

I always read where Marianne slept with Mick, Keith and Brian before hooking up with Mick but maybe I read a buncha bs...

Quote
tomcasagranda
Jorge luis Borges said that the Falklands Conflict was "Two bald men fighting over a comb", a pathetic feud. A feud over musical differences, however, doesn't involve the loss of life though.

In much the same way that Jagger's feud with Richards is pathetic, pointless, absurd, so we have a scenario where even the tiniest thing is blown out into epic proportions. Musical directions, women, drugs, social behaviour, even record collections are turned into weapons in a pointless propaganda war. The team dynamic becomes like Achilles squabbling with Agamemnon in the Iliad, i.e. I'll sulk over a slave girl in my tent, and then, when the chips are down, I'll come back and we'll be a winning team again. The story is as "Old as sin" to quote J J Cale, and Mick and Keith continue to behave, as old men hitting 70, as feuding princelings, awaiting reunification to win money for themselves, or, mores the point, when solo material doesn't sell as much as the imprimatur The Rolling Stones, then they will come back.

Sentiment, i.e. 50 years a group, doesn't come into it. Remuneration and a healthy cash box do. When did the feuding start ? Possibly, and probably, if money remains the prima facie matter, when Allen Klein took over their business affairs, or even Andrew Loog Oldham, and it became a divide and conquer scenario, i.e. with Brian contributing less and less, and songwriting being the sole preserve of Mick and Keith.

This is a one way fight, Keith is upset with Mick who doesnt give a damn and never did. Also I doubt Marianne slept with Keith. She said she didnt and then changed her story. I guess she was paid.

The cuckold was Keith not Mick. I read somewhere that they still fight about it or at least did in the 90s (during Babylon?). Anybody else read this?