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leteyer
Artistic drought??
Wow, Heartbreaker, Time Waits for no one, If You Really Want to be my Friend,
Star Star, If You Can't Rock Me, IORR, Angie, Dance Little Sister, Coming Down Again, Winter.
Don't know what's not to like in those two albums.
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Edward Twining
In a sense i wouldn't disagree with you, stupidguy2. 'Winter' is an epic song, within a ballad form, whereas 'Wild Horses' while also being a ballad, is much more subdued within its character, and is perhaps more typical of a conventional Stones ballad. 'Wild Horses' in some ways should act as a template for Jagger in how best to sing ballads within that certain form, because in the last three decades, Jagger's completely lost the knack. Structurally, i think 'Wild Horses' has all the hallmarks of a classic, it is so tidily written and arranged, and to a point it is easy to see why it is chosen to be covered by other artists fairly frequently too. For me 'Wild Horses', along with 'Moonlight Mile' is a conventionally great Stones ballad. However, 'Winter' for me, seems a lot less meticulously mapped out, which was fairly unusual for the Stones up to this period (well since SATANIC MAJESTIES anyway), and there's a sort of hazy and unfocused feel to it, as with a number of other Stones songs from GOATS HEAD SOUP, as though perhaps the Stones were a little more distracted than usual around this time. As a song in a more conventional sense, as in a commercial sense, i don't think to the wider public it would ever be as easily digestable as, say, 'Wild Horses', or even 'Moonlight Mile', because it isn't so finely tuned. However, if you actually do manage to feel the vibe within this song, in terms of its overall power, i think it is one of the most majestic, and soulful songs the Stones have ever recorded. Yes, in those terms i think it goes beyond 'Wild Horses', and even perhaps 'Moonlight Mile'. However, as with much of GOATS HEAD SOUP, i think you have to be a musical connisseur of a certain order, to fully appreciate it. 'Winter' is much closer stylistically, to 'Moonlight Mile' anyway, and despite 'Moonlight Mile's greater musical focus, as in it being that much more meticulously written and recorded, something extra special does happen with 'Winter'. Whatever the Stones managed to throw into the pot, as within the mixing of this song, seems to work so magnificently - Jagger's vocal, Taylor's guitar, the strings and all. Sometimes i really do feel with the Stones on this track they managed to get lucky, because i'm not so sure it was totally pre-conceived, yet if luck is all it is, they managed to find it on many of the other less focused tracks on GOATS HEAD SOUP too. Maybe that really was part of the master plan (but i somehow doubt it!). Ultimately, the Stones muse at this point hadn't really deserted them even though they were no longer operating 100%.
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Edward Twining
GOATS HEAD SOUP i think really grows in stature over repeated listens, and the songs that seem a little uninspiring and perhaps a touch indulgent at first, actually reveal themselves to be quite sensitive and rather beautiful over time. I am thinking here of tracks like 'Winter' and 'Can You Hear The Music?' which can on first few listens sound like the Stones were somewhat lost in a haze. 'Hide Your Love' also seems pretty much like a knockabout jam leftover, and maybe not the Stones most inspiring moment, and i still think it perhaps isn't, yet it has the ability to become greatly infectious too over repeated listens. Generally, with GOATS HEAD SOUP, one gets the feeling the Stones musical focus had begun to slip, yet there are elements to its sound, and especially Mick Taylor's contribution, within the mellow nature of the music, that transforms GOATS HEAD SOUP into a rather unique Stones offering.
IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL i believe hasn't got that extra element, which is so significant on GOATS HEAD SOUP. It shares much of GOATS HEAD SOUP's lack of focus, but this time to a far greater degree, and there isn't that more interesting mellow musical texture at hand either (with perhaps one exception), which was so appealing on GOATS HEAD SOUP, of which to act as a distraction. IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL is pretty much the Stones-by-numbers, where everything appears to be in place on the surface, but really it's just the Stones going through the motions and banging out another riff, without much degree of incentive. Some fans may actually prefer it to GOATS HEAD SOUP because it may perhaps be more typical of the Stones in terms of direction, and musical energy etc, yet i tend to think of IT'S ONLY ROCK AND ROLL as ultimately one of their very weakest efforts leading up to the post TATTOO YOU era.
However, what the Stones were going through with GOATS HEAD SOUP and IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL is also very indicative of the time period too, and especially with regard to what was happening to several other 60s musical veterans - the Kinks and John Lennon included. The tightly focused work from the 70/71 period seemed very much by 73/74 to be getting caught up in excessive, and indugent decadence, and the musical spark that ignited much of the sixties music seemed very much to be dying.
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Edward Twining
However, what the Stones were going through with GOATS HEAD SOUP and IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL is also very indicative of the time period too, and especially with regard to what was happening to several other 60s musical veterans - the Kinks and John Lennon included. The tightly focused work from the 70/71 period seemed very much by 73/74 to be getting caught up in excessive, and indugent decadence, and the musical spark that ignited much of the sixties music seemed very much to be dying.
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BroomWagonQuote
Edward Twining
In a sense i wouldn't disagree with you, stupidguy2. 'Winter' is an epic song, within a ballad form, whereas 'Wild Horses' while also being a ballad, is much more subdued within its character, and is perhaps more typical of a conventional Stones ballad. 'Wild Horses' in some ways should act as a template for Jagger in how best to sing ballads within that certain form, because in the last three decades, Jagger's completely lost the knack. Structurally, i think 'Wild Horses' has all the hallmarks of a classic, it is so tidily written and arranged, and to a point it is easy to see why it is chosen to be covered by other artists fairly frequently too. For me 'Wild Horses', along with 'Moonlight Mile' is a conventionally great Stones ballad. However, 'Winter' for me, seems a lot less meticulously mapped out, which was fairly unusual for the Stones up to this period (well since SATANIC MAJESTIES anyway), and there's a sort of hazy and unfocused feel to it, as with a number of other Stones songs from GOATS HEAD SOUP, as though perhaps the Stones were a little more distracted than usual around this time. As a song in a more conventional sense, as in a commercial sense, i don't think to the wider public it would ever be as easily digestable as, say, 'Wild Horses', or even 'Moonlight Mile', because it isn't so finely tuned. However, if you actually do manage to feel the vibe within this song, in terms of its overall power, i think it is one of the most majestic, and soulful songs the Stones have ever recorded. Yes, in those terms i think it goes beyond 'Wild Horses', and even perhaps 'Moonlight Mile'. However, as with much of GOATS HEAD SOUP, i think you have to be a musical connisseur of a certain order, to fully appreciate it. 'Winter' is much closer stylistically, to 'Moonlight Mile' anyway, and despite 'Moonlight Mile's greater musical focus, as in it being that much more meticulously written and recorded, something extra special does happen with 'Winter'. Whatever the Stones managed to throw into the pot, as within the mixing of this song, seems to work so magnificently - Jagger's vocal, Taylor's guitar, the strings and all. Sometimes i really do feel with the Stones on this track they managed to get lucky, because i'm not so sure it was totally pre-conceived, yet if luck is all it is, they managed to find it on many of the other less focused tracks on GOATS HEAD SOUP too. Maybe that really was part of the master plan (but i somehow doubt it!). Ultimately, the Stones muse at this point hadn't really deserted them even though they were no longer operating 100%.
Good read here, I always did think "Winter" is sort of the "Moonlight Mile" of GHS, same sort of vibe, close to the same place on the album.
Kind of the way, "You gotta move" and IORR's "Short and Curlies" to me are sort of related, not really listenable, kind of silly, short songs, pick one's own adjectives.
"Winter" is kind of metaphysical, spiritual, more like MM. "Wild Horses" might be more like "Angie", I'd have to think about it. In some ways, the country sound of WH is a bit like SV, Sweet Virginia in that they are both sort of country songs.
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Edward TwiningQuote
leteyer
Artistic drought??
Wow, Heartbreaker, Time Waits for no one, If You Really Want to be my Friend,
Star Star, If You Can't Rock Me, IORR, Angie, Dance Little Sister, Coming Down Again, Winter.
Don't know what's not to like in those two albums.
I think it is more of a case of how those songs compare with many of the songs on the albums that came immediately before. The Stones were incredibly consistent from BEGGARS BANQUET - EXILE ON MAIN STREET.
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Edward TwiningQuote
leteyer
Artistic drought??
Wow, Heartbreaker, Time Waits for no one, If You Really Want to be my Friend,
Star Star, If You Can't Rock Me, IORR, Angie, Dance Little Sister, Coming Down Again, Winter.
Don't know what's not to like in those two albums.
I think it is more of a case of how those songs compare with many of the songs on the albums that came immediately before. The Stones were incredibly consistent from BEGGARS BANQUET - EXILE ON MAIN STREET.
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andrewtQuote
Edward TwiningQuote
leteyer
Artistic drought??
Wow, Heartbreaker, Time Waits for no one, If You Really Want to be my Friend,
Star Star, If You Can't Rock Me, IORR, Angie, Dance Little Sister, Coming Down Again, Winter.
Don't know what's not to like in those two albums.
I think it is more of a case of how those songs compare with many of the songs on the albums that came immediately before. The Stones were incredibly consistent from BEGGARS BANQUET - EXILE ON MAIN STREET.
Well, this is the thing. Up to this point each Stones album was a manifesto of the counter-culture at the time, or it was percieved as such anyways. This was still when all that "voice of a generation" jazz was such a big deal. So I can imagine people waiting for the next Sermon From The Mount, getting GHS, and feeling let-down. Free of all that almost 40 years later, we can look back and see some great songs on some uneven albums. The three mid 70's albums leading up to Some Girls are great fodder for fans because it seems everyone has their personal list of so-called "hidden gems". I always thought Winter was Mick trying to do a Van Morrison "Astral Weeks" type thing in the way the jam of CYHMK was a nod to Santana, and Stray Cat Blues a nod to the Velvet Underground. Not as successful, but interesting. IORR has a great one-two-three punch off the top. I'm also a fan of the funky numbers like Fingerprint File, Hot Stuff & Hey Negrita. Lots of stuff on those albums to sprinkle into the playlist for variety from time to time even if they are short on all-time classics.
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TeaAtThree
Question about IORR:
Mick J's voice seemed so much higher and thinner to me when I listened to it last night. Why is that? Is it just the song selection? The keys the tunes are in?
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deuceQuote
TeaAtThree
Question about IORR:
Mick J's voice seemed so much higher and thinner to me when I listened to it last night. Why is that? Is it just the song selection? The keys the tunes are in?
I notice this most on Fingerprint File. It sounds to me like they sped the tape up to pitch his vocals higher. This technique has been used by many.
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FM, AM, hits are clickin' while the clock is tock-a-tickin'
Friends and Romans, salutations, Brenda and the Tabulations
Carly Simon, I behold her, Rolling Stones and centerfoldin'
Johnny Cash and Johnny Rivers, can't stop now, I got the shivers
Mungo Jerry, Peter Peter Paul and Paul and Mary Mary
Dr. John the nightly tripper, Doris Day and Jack the Ripper
Gotta go Sir, gotta swelter, Leon Russell, Gimme Shelter
Miracles in smokey places, slide guitars and Fender basses
Mushroom omelet, Bonnie Bramlett, Wilson Pickett, stop and kick it
Life is a rock but the radio
Life is a rock but the radio
[lyricsplayground.com]
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God gave rock and roll to you
gave rock and roll to you
put it in the soul of everyone,
god gave rock and roll to you
gave rock and roll to you
saved rock and roll for everyone
[www.nomorelyrics.net]
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*At the good ole rock and roll road
show, I gotta go
Saturday Night,
Saturday Night
Gonna rock it up, roll it up
Do it all, have a ball,
Saturday Night,
Saturday Night
[www.lyricsdepot.com]
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stupidguy2Quote
Edward TwiningQuote
leteyer
Artistic drought??
Wow, Heartbreaker, Time Waits for no one, If You Really Want to be my Friend,
Star Star, If You Can't Rock Me, IORR, Angie, Dance Little Sister, Coming Down Again, Winter.
Don't know what's not to like in those two albums.
I think it is more of a case of how those songs compare with many of the songs on the albums that came immediately before. The Stones were incredibly consistent from BEGGARS BANQUET - EXILE ON MAIN STREET.
Then again you could also point out songs like Dear Doctor, Country Honk, great in the context of these albums, but mostly filler.
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leteyer
Good point. Also, younger fans, like me, who discovered the Stones post-Some Girls or because of it, tend to look more fondly, IMO. Simply because we were perhaps not shackled by the counter-culture sermon-on-the-mount expectations. Those albums just sounded so cool to me because, sandwiched between Big Four and Some Girls - and discovered after the fact - they were so different, such a departure and remain singular in their feel.
Yep I can relate. Emotional Rescue was the first one I bought on the day it was released.
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russr
Goats Head Soup suffered coming on the heels of Exile...and being pretty that record's opposite.
Personally, I think it's one of their best song-wise. In fact pound for pound, I'd argue it's better than Some Girls. Angie...Hide Your Love...Heartbreaker...100 years Ago...Winter...Star Star.... These are hard to top.
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straycatblues73
the discussion is excellent and interresting but sometimes you just gotta FEEL it.
personally i love those 3 albums ghs iorr b&b in all their glory ,and different "sounds"
ghs great drum sound , whole record wonderfully muddy ( or better, moody)
iorr a lot clearer and different with MTs strat in most songs (why the strat?)
B&B the crispiest of them all
but the best thing is they all have great great songs .
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Edward TwiningQuote
leteyer
Artistic drought??
Wow, Heartbreaker, Time Waits for no one, If You Really Want to be my Friend,
Star Star, If You Can't Rock Me, IORR, Angie, Dance Little Sister, Coming Down Again, Winter.
Don't know what's not to like in those two albums.
I think it is more of a case of how those songs compare with many of the songs on the albums that came immediately before. The Stones were incredibly consistent from BEGGARS BANQUET - EXILE ON MAIN STREET.
Then again you could also point out songs like Dear Doctor, Country Honk, great in the context of these albums, but mostly filler.
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Edward TwiningQuote
stupidguy2Quote
Edward TwiningQuote
leteyer
Artistic drought??
Wow, Heartbreaker, Time Waits for no one, If You Really Want to be my Friend,
Star Star, If You Can't Rock Me, IORR, Angie, Dance Little Sister, Coming Down Again, Winter.
Don't know what's not to like in those two albums.
I think it is more of a case of how those songs compare with many of the songs on the albums that came immediately before. The Stones were incredibly consistent from BEGGARS BANQUET - EXILE ON MAIN STREET.
Then again you could also point out songs like Dear Doctor, Country Honk, great in the context of these albums, but mostly filler.
I personally have never really thought of 'Dear Doctor' and 'Country Honk' as filler. I think the difference between, say, the albums BEGGARS BANQUET, LET IT BLEED, and STICKY FINGERS, when compared with GOATS HEAD SOUP, is that many of the songs from those earlier albums genuinely stand up really well outside the context of those albums. They are very sharp, and very precise, and many of them to a point, fairly radio friendly. They are accessible individually as songs, as well as contributing to the greater whole as album tracks. However, this perhaps is less true of EXILE ON MAIN STREET, who's songs tend to compliment each other best within the specific vibe of the album. That's not to say EXILE ON MAIN STREET is inferior in any way, to those previous albums, because in my opinion it's not, it's more a case of the Stones being prepared to invite you more deeply into their world, outside perhaps the context of them existing as merely commercial pop stars. The Stones are prepared to delve here ever more deeply into exploring their primary influences. There's a rawness and an impenertability about EXILE to begin with, although for me, even on a first listen, i believed i was in the presence of greatness. To a point the same is true of GOATS HEAD SOUP also, because many of the songs don't immediately grab you, and that it is perhaps best to listen to those songs best within the context of the album. GOATS HEAD SOUP is a very different album to EXILE in many ways ultimately, because EXILE was a remarkably focused piece of work, if you really do digest those songs individually, despite early impressions of abandonment, and the splattering of rock 'n' roll noise. GOATS HEAD SOUP is ultimately less focused as a whole, although there are a number of songs that can exist outside the context of the album quite freely, the obvious one being 'Angie', and also 'Star Star', despite the censorship. However, the key i have always believed to GOATS HEAD SOUP, is the ability of the listener to capture that vibe. Ultimately, this album has the potential to deliver truly intoxicating results within the melancholy, and somewhat meandering framework of many of its songs, because it is predominantly more of a mood album (and sometimes rather heavy at that), than a collection of accessible pop/rock 'n' roll songs. Yes, it is to a point indulgent, and a little unfocused at times too, and maybe possesses a druggy decadence as well, but given a few spins it can become deeply addictive, too. 'Star Star' is a really laugh, being placed at the very end of the album, because its the least typical track on the album, despite perhaps being the most typical stones song outside the context of this album, also. The song is almost like a wake up call to the listener after the very heavy vibe of a few of those previous songs. It's like the Stones are saying come on its time to have fun, lyrics, riff and all. GOATS HEAD SOUP is actually, ultimately, one of my very favourite Stones albums, and possibly my most played too, but it works in a very different context to the big four in my opinion.
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Erik_SnowQuote
Edward TwiningQuote
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Edward TwiningQuote
leteyer
Artistic drought??
Wow, Heartbreaker, Time Waits for no one, If You Really Want to be my Friend,
Star Star, If You Can't Rock Me, IORR, Angie, Dance Little Sister, Coming Down Again, Winter.
Don't know what's not to like in those two albums.
I think it is more of a case of how those songs compare with many of the songs on the albums that came immediately before. The Stones were incredibly consistent from BEGGARS BANQUET - EXILE ON MAIN STREET.
Then again you could also point out songs like Dear Doctor, Country Honk, great in the context of these albums, but mostly filler.
I personally have never really thought of 'Dear Doctor' and 'Country Honk' as filler. I think the difference between, say, the albums BEGGARS BANQUET, LET IT BLEED, and STICKY FINGERS, when compared with GOATS HEAD SOUP, is that many of the songs from those earlier albums genuinely stand up really well outside the context of those albums. They are very sharp, and very precise, and many of them to a point, fairly radio friendly. They are accessible individually as songs, as well as contributing to the greater whole as album tracks. However, this perhaps is less true of EXILE ON MAIN STREET, who's songs tend to compliment each other best within the specific vibe of the album. That's not to say EXILE ON MAIN STREET is inferior in any way, to those previous albums, because in my opinion it's not, it's more a case of the Stones being prepared to invite you more deeply into their world, outside perhaps the context of them existing as merely commercial pop stars. The Stones are prepared to delve here ever more deeply into exploring their primary influences. There's a rawness and an impenertability about EXILE to begin with, although for me, even on a first listen, i believed i was in the presence of greatness. To a point the same is true of GOATS HEAD SOUP also, because many of the songs don't immediately grab you, and that it is perhaps best to listen to those songs best within the context of the album. GOATS HEAD SOUP is a very different album to EXILE in many ways ultimately, because EXILE was a remarkably focused piece of work, if you really do digest those songs individually, despite early impressions of abandonment, and the splattering of rock 'n' roll noise. GOATS HEAD SOUP is ultimately less focused as a whole, although there are a number of songs that can exist outside the context of the album quite freely, the obvious one being 'Angie', and also 'Star Star', despite the censorship. However, the key i have always believed to GOATS HEAD SOUP, is the ability of the listener to capture that vibe. Ultimately, this album has the potential to deliver truly intoxicating results within the melancholy, and somewhat meandering framework of many of its songs, because it is predominantly more of a mood album (and sometimes rather heavy at that), than a collection of accessible pop/rock 'n' roll songs. Yes, it is to a point indulgent, and a little unfocused at times too, and maybe possesses a druggy decadence as well, but given a few spins it can become deeply addictive, too. 'Star Star' is a really laugh, being placed at the very end of the album, because its the least typical track on the album, despite perhaps being the most typical stones song outside the context of this album, also. The song is almost like a wake up call to the listener after the very heavy vibe of a few of those previous songs. It's like the Stones are saying come on its time to have fun, lyrics, riff and all. GOATS HEAD SOUP is actually, ultimately, one of my very favourite Stones albums, and possibly my most played too, but it works in a very different context to the big four in my opinion.
You know; Edward....if you used the "enter-button", a lot of more people would bother to read your posts. Just a suggestion.