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Like what? He said they performed CYHMK on the '71 tour and then Bobby Keys and Keith confirmed it. So.........what did Bill get wrong?
Yeah, but the place only holds 2,000, the song was at the time unreleased, plus its 40 years ago and most people who were at it probably dont give what they played or didnt play a second thought.
Three of the eight people who were onstage that night have separately confirmed that they played it. The other five probably cant remember! Good enough for me.
I wouldn't question his authority so easily. I think the difference between Bill and all the other "Stones historians" is that he has so much more memories, stuff, and everything related to the band that it is quite human to make few mistakes occasionally. He wasn't just following the story 'objectively' outside but living in the middle of the hurricane, so to speak, and making notes there. When he makes a historical reconstruction, it is not the question of finding as much "facts" or "people" to tell the story, but to sort out his wn archives, diaries, experiences, recollections, and try to make sense out of them. There is a lot to chooce from.
The fact that he makes sometimes mistakes, even some bad ones - which some fans immediately and easily recognize since already mastering the Stoneslogy degree - does not justify us to imply that any claim not verified by any other source, or sounds a bit odd, is a mistake again. That's too simple explanation. And the cost might be losing the truth as well.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-21 13:26 by Doxa.
I'm surprised by your comment about Peggy Sue, as it means my memory fails me - because from what I remember of David Dalton's book; which I don't have with me right now, is that.....
they went off the stage in Newcastle; and people were cheering; so the band decided that they should go out for an encore. And somebody asks which song they should do. Mick replies: "uh, Peggy Sue?"
And the article continues with...."They decide to go out for an encore, playing "Sympathy For The Devil" to great enjoyment for the audience"
....or something like that. Never read that Dalton said they actually did Peggy Sue. Not that I can remember, anyway.
So, they toured at some point for 5 straight years ('69,'70,'71,'72 and'73)?
I learned something new.
Well ...they only missed '68 then
__________________________
Until the 'hiatus' after 1982, the only years when the Stones didnt tour were 1968, 1974, 1977, 1979 and 1980.
'74 and '80 were the only years when they made no live appearances at all. Even though they released studio albums in each of them.
Yes. 'Farewell Britain', I think - as they were all moving to France for tax reasons.
A somewhat over-dramatic name for a tour!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-24 01:57 by Gazza.
Yes - it came out around the start of the '75 Tour of the Americas.
I think ABKCO/Decca released 'Metamorphosis' the same DAY.
Then again, Decca had a habit around that time of putting out compilations around the same time as Rolling Stones Records were putting out THEIR releases. And promoting them with 'singles'.
'Stone Age' came out around the same time as 'Sticky Fingers'
'Milestones' was around the same time as 'Exile'
'No Stone Unturned'came out just after 'Goats Head Soup'
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Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
stevecardi
()
Date: October 20, 2011 23:23
In Rolling with the Stones Bill Wyman gives a setlist to the 1971 Newcastle show which includes not only "Wild Horses" but also "Can't You Hear Me Knocking." Obviously the performance of "Wild Horses" has been known for years, but this was the first time I ever heard of CYHMK beig played during the Taylor years. No one, including websites, or knowledgeable Stones fans I've conversed with, has ever mentioned or hinted at this song being played.
Is there any other review/evidence the Stones played CYHMK live during the Taylor years, or is there even any evidence of a recording via unconfirmed reports of a soundboard or rare audience tape?
I know 1970/1971 are two of the lost tours, and there are a lot of mistakes in Wyamn's book, but one would think that the mere mention of this by one of the band members would have sent fans throughout the world into a frenzy for a tape of this show, as a perfomnace of CYHMK during the Taylor era would be among the holiest of grails for people like us.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-20 23:23 by stevecardi.
Is there any other review/evidence the Stones played CYHMK live during the Taylor years, or is there even any evidence of a recording via unconfirmed reports of a soundboard or rare audience tape?
I know 1970/1971 are two of the lost tours, and there are a lot of mistakes in Wyamn's book, but one would think that the mere mention of this by one of the band members would have sent fans throughout the world into a frenzy for a tape of this show, as a perfomnace of CYHMK during the Taylor era would be among the holiest of grails for people like us.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-20 23:23 by stevecardi.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
shortfatfanny
()
Date: October 20, 2011 23:29
Couple of months Erik Snow started a thread about it...but of course I can´t find the link...
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: October 20, 2011 23:31
It has been discussed plenty of times, Steve, in fairness.
Bobby Keys and Keith Richards have also said that the song was played at a couple of shows early in the '71 tour before being dropped as they couldnt get to grips with it.
There is a tape of one of the Newcastle shows, but it only includes a couple of songs from what I recall.
1970 isnt really a 'lost' tour as (almost) every show circulates, but the same cant be said about 1971. Should be remembered though that they did play exclusively in very small venues.
Less than 30,000 people would have seen the Stones on that tour.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-20 23:31 by Gazza.
Bobby Keys and Keith Richards have also said that the song was played at a couple of shows early in the '71 tour before being dropped as they couldnt get to grips with it.
There is a tape of one of the Newcastle shows, but it only includes a couple of songs from what I recall.
1970 isnt really a 'lost' tour as (almost) every show circulates, but the same cant be said about 1971. Should be remembered though that they did play exclusively in very small venues.
Less than 30,000 people would have seen the Stones on that tour.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-20 23:31 by Gazza.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
stevecardi
()
Date: October 20, 2011 23:35
Thank you Gazza,
I've only starting posting/reading the forums last year, so please excuse me for beating a dead dog.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-20 23:36 by stevecardi.
I've only starting posting/reading the forums last year, so please excuse me for beating a dead dog.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-20 23:36 by stevecardi.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: October 20, 2011 23:45
Nothing to excuse, mate...lol...to be fair, it hasnt been mentioned much since the Stones last toured.
I think when they played it in 2002, Mick mentioned regularly that they'd never played it before - but it appears that they had.
I think when they played it in 2002, Mick mentioned regularly that they'd never played it before - but it appears that they had.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
barbabang
()
Date: October 20, 2011 23:57
Would be a great addition to the Sticky Fingers deluxe edition don't you think?
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
melillo
()
Date: October 21, 2011 00:00
you would think someone would know someone who knew a friend of a friend that was at the show huh?
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
barbabang
()
Date: October 21, 2011 00:10
At least 4 shows (if not more) were recorded in multi-track in 1971. I'm not in favour of an audio cd of The Marquee. That show wasn't a very good one imho.
Let's hope the sticky fingers box is due in spring 2012. Then we can have nice discussions here
Let's hope the sticky fingers box is due in spring 2012. Then we can have nice discussions here
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
peters318
()
Date: October 21, 2011 00:20
Hi I was at Newcastle City Hall at the early show in 71. Fraid my memory is not good these days, but I don't recall them playing Can't You Hear Me Knocking. Of course they could have played it at the later show (there were two shows that night).
Peter
vintagerock
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-21 00:20 by peters318.
Peter
vintagerock
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-21 00:20 by peters318.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
melillo
()
Date: October 21, 2011 00:44
boy i tell ya something for wyman being mister history he sure gets alot of things wrong
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
JJHMick
()
Date: October 21, 2011 00:53
It's not only a question of Bill's memory but of David Dalton's Rolling Stone memory too. And his' says there was no YCAGWYW - the only hope is he missed some show in between. The only hint is that Bill was regarding Peggy Sue as an encore: Does that mean they were able or unable to perform that also somehow unique song?
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: October 21, 2011 00:57
Quote
melillo
boy i tell ya something for wyman being mister history he sure gets alot of things wrong
Like what? He said they performed CYHMK on the '71 tour and then Bobby Keys and Keith confirmed it. So.........what did Bill get wrong?
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: October 21, 2011 01:33
Quote
melillo
you would think someone would know someone who knew a friend of a friend that was at the show huh?
Yeah, but the place only holds 2,000, the song was at the time unreleased, plus its 40 years ago and most people who were at it probably dont give what they played or didnt play a second thought.
Three of the eight people who were onstage that night have separately confirmed that they played it. The other five probably cant remember! Good enough for me.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
melillo
()
Date: October 21, 2011 01:41
well keith confirming it means nothing and bills two books have some mistakes in them i recall but not off the top of my head, hey look i hope they did perform it that would be great to get it somedayQuote
24FPSQuote
melillo
boy i tell ya something for wyman being mister history he sure gets alot of things wrong
Like what? He said they performed CYHMK on the '71 tour and then Bobby Keys and Keith confirmed it. So.........what did Bill get wrong?
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
Sohoe
()
Date: October 21, 2011 02:24
<<Is there any other review/evidence the Stones played CYHMK live during the Taylor years>>
stevecardi, Melody Maker did a report on that Newcastle gig and specifically
mentions both Can't You Hear Me Knockin' and Wild Horses being played
...Jean Marie's pressbook covering the '71 UK and '73 Australasian tours may
be of interest: [www.iorr.org]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-21 02:32 by Sohoe.
stevecardi, Melody Maker did a report on that Newcastle gig and specifically
mentions both Can't You Hear Me Knockin' and Wild Horses being played
...Jean Marie's pressbook covering the '71 UK and '73 Australasian tours may
be of interest: [www.iorr.org]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-21 02:32 by Sohoe.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 21, 2011 13:22
Quote
melillo
boy i tell ya something for wyman being mister history he sure gets alot of things wrong
I wouldn't question his authority so easily. I think the difference between Bill and all the other "Stones historians" is that he has so much more memories, stuff, and everything related to the band that it is quite human to make few mistakes occasionally. He wasn't just following the story 'objectively' outside but living in the middle of the hurricane, so to speak, and making notes there. When he makes a historical reconstruction, it is not the question of finding as much "facts" or "people" to tell the story, but to sort out his wn archives, diaries, experiences, recollections, and try to make sense out of them. There is a lot to chooce from.
The fact that he makes sometimes mistakes, even some bad ones - which some fans immediately and easily recognize since already mastering the Stoneslogy degree - does not justify us to imply that any claim not verified by any other source, or sounds a bit odd, is a mistake again. That's too simple explanation. And the cost might be losing the truth as well.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-21 13:26 by Doxa.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
RobberBride
()
Date: October 21, 2011 13:39
Well put Doxa
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: October 23, 2011 23:23
Quote
JJHMick
It's not only a question of Bill's memory but of David Dalton's Rolling Stone memory too. And his' says there was no YCAGWYW - the only hope is he missed some show in between. The only hint is that Bill was regarding Peggy Sue as an encore: Does that mean they were able or unable to perform that also somehow unique song?
I'm surprised by your comment about Peggy Sue, as it means my memory fails me - because from what I remember of David Dalton's book; which I don't have with me right now, is that.....
they went off the stage in Newcastle; and people were cheering; so the band decided that they should go out for an encore. And somebody asks which song they should do. Mick replies: "uh, Peggy Sue?"
And the article continues with...."They decide to go out for an encore, playing "Sympathy For The Devil" to great enjoyment for the audience"
....or something like that. Never read that Dalton said they actually did Peggy Sue. Not that I can remember, anyway.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
Sam Spade
()
Date: October 24, 2011 00:37
Quote
Gazza
1970 isnt really a 'lost' tour as (almost) every show circulates, but the same cant be said about 1971. Should be remembered though that they did play exclusively in very small venues.
Less than 30,000 people would have seen the Stones on that tour.
So, they toured at some point for 5 straight years ('69,'70,'71,'72 and'73)?
I learned something new.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: October 24, 2011 00:47
Quote
Sam SpadeQuote
Gazza
1970 isnt really a 'lost' tour as (almost) every show circulates, but the same cant be said about 1971. Should be remembered though that they did play exclusively in very small venues.
Less than 30,000 people would have seen the Stones on that tour.
So, they toured at some point for 5 straight years ('69,'70,'71,'72 and'73)?
I learned something new.
Well ...they only missed '68 then
__________________________
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: October 24, 2011 00:56
Quote
Sam SpadeQuote
Gazza
1970 isnt really a 'lost' tour as (almost) every show circulates, but the same cant be said about 1971. Should be remembered though that they did play exclusively in very small venues.
Less than 30,000 people would have seen the Stones on that tour.
So, they toured at some point for 5 straight years ('69,'70,'71,'72 and'73)?
I learned something new.
Until the 'hiatus' after 1982, the only years when the Stones didnt tour were 1968, 1974, 1977, 1979 and 1980.
'74 and '80 were the only years when they made no live appearances at all. Even though they released studio albums in each of them.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
scottkeef
()
Date: October 24, 2011 01:04
Remember when you used to get a new album and tour to promote it every year? Thats why "Made In The Shade" was released in 75 because they did not tour in support of IORR in 74 and they needed something in the record racks....
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
Sam Spade
()
Date: October 24, 2011 01:05
Quote
GazzaQuote
Sam SpadeQuote
Gazza
Until the 'hiatus' after 1982, the only years when the Stones didn't tour were 1968, 1974, 1977, 1979 and 1980.
'74 and '80 were the only years when they made no live appearances at all. Even though they released studio albums in each of them.
Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't '71 billed as "Farewell Great Britain" or something along that line?
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: October 24, 2011 01:56
Quote
Sam Spade
Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't '71 billed as "Farewell Great Britain" or something along that line?
Yes. 'Farewell Britain', I think - as they were all moving to France for tax reasons.
A somewhat over-dramatic name for a tour!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-24 01:57 by Gazza.
Re: Newcastle 1971 per Bill Wyman
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: October 24, 2011 02:02
Quote
scottkeef
Remember when you used to get a new album and tour to promote it every year? Thats why "Made In The Shade" was released in 75 because they did not tour in support of IORR in 74 and they needed something in the record racks....
Yes - it came out around the start of the '75 Tour of the Americas.
I think ABKCO/Decca released 'Metamorphosis' the same DAY.
Then again, Decca had a habit around that time of putting out compilations around the same time as Rolling Stones Records were putting out THEIR releases. And promoting them with 'singles'.
'Stone Age' came out around the same time as 'Sticky Fingers'
'Milestones' was around the same time as 'Exile'
'No Stone Unturned'came out just after 'Goats Head Soup'
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