I was listening to some tapes from the Voodoo Lounge tour day.
Man, as much as I love the Steel Wheels and Urban Jungle tours, I gotta admit, on the Voodoo Lounge tour, they had their swagger back.

I thought the playing was better on SW/UJ, and especially Mick and Keith was stronger then.

However, I loved the VL-show I attended. It was excellent, too.

They were all far better in 2016 no ?

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

The VL tour had that bit of dumpiness the 81-82 tour had - minus the rushed speed of things. SW/UJ was clean precise Stones with the excellent revamp of Start Me Up, what was then a new version of SFTD and a pretty damn good Midnight Rambler.

The VL tour, Start Me Up was bad but Tumbling Dice, Monkey Man and a few others were outstanding. VL sounded better.

The quality of the guitar playing diminished radically between SW/UJ and VL.

However, I think SW/UJ was far too polished and mechanical. VL was a bit dirtier and looser. It would have been interesting to hear that vibe coupled with the flashier guitar playing from '89-'90.

I do wonder if the change in guitar wizardry had more to do with how the music scene changed between '89 and '94. In the late '80s, guitar heroes were all the rage in hard rock and heavy metal. Although the Stones were never about that, Keith and Ronnie did play longer solos with faster, flashier runs in an effort to keep up with the scene at the time.

By '94, guitar pyrotechnics were considered cheesy and outdated. The whole grunge/alternative scene put the focus back on the song, and solos became more about servicing the song, not just as a perfunctory place holder for showing off your chops.

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keefriff99
The quality of the guitar playing diminished radically between SW/UJ and VL.

However, I think SW/UJ was far too polished and mechanical. VL was a bit dirtier and looser. It would have been interesting to hear that vibe coupled with the flashier guitar playing from '89-'90.

I do wonder if the change in guitar wizardry had more to do with how the music scene changed between '89 and '94. In the late '80s, guitar heroes were all the rage in hard rock and heavy metal. Although the Stones were never about that, Keith and Ronnie did play longer solos with faster, flashier runs in an effort to keep up with the scene at the time.

By '94, guitar pyrotechnics were considered cheesy and outdated. The whole grunge/alternative scene put the focus back on the song, and solos became more about servicing the song, not just as a perfunctory place holder for showing off your chops.

I agree with that. Both approaches had their strong sides, and combined it would have been awesome

I loved both tours, though.

VL-setlists were better and the playing less clean. The costumes were less awful than those from SW/UJ. Jagger´s hairdo made him finally look like Jagger again. Unfortunately they didn´t include some of DW´s tracks.
The ridicilous inflateable dolls were gone, weren´t they?
And thank God they removed most of Steel Wheel´s songs from the setlist.
Overall VL was more stonesy than SW/UJ.

I believe "One Hit (to the Body) " was played once on VOODOO LOUNGE.

I must admit, I look forward to your inevitable "unfortunately they didn't include tracks from DIRTY WORK" posts. You must have felt the same when FORTY LICKS was released and when perusing nearly every Stones setlist for the past 23 years.

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Rocky Dijon
I believe "One Hit (to the Body) " was played once on VOODOO LOUNGE.

I must admit, I look forward to your inevitable "unfortunately they didn't include tracks from DIRTY WORK" posts. You must have felt the same when FORTY LICKS was released and when perusing nearly every Stones setlist for the past 23 years.

Maybe in Buenos Aires, but no tape exists. At least there was a comment by Karnbach, but his book is full of errors.

I think Stripped/Totally Stripped demonstrate just how good they were in 1995. The sound and playing is better and far more interesting than anything I've heard from 1989/90.

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The Worst.
I think Stripped/Totally Stripped demonstrate just how good they were in 1995. The sound and playing is better and far more interesting than anything I've heard from 1989/90.

I agree with that.

They almost sound like different bands...watching some of the stadium shows in 1994, they were definitely sloppy and ragged at times, whereas with the '95 club shows they were unbelievably tight.

I still say that soloing in '89-'90 was superior, but in terms of gelling as a band, the '95 shows are hard to top, if not impossible.

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Monsoon Ragoon

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Rocky Dijon
I believe "One Hit (to the Body) " was played once on VOODOO LOUNGE.

Maybe in Buenos Aires, but no tape exists. At least there was a comment by Karnbach, but his book is full of errors.

Right you are. I checked with a friend who knows better who said the song in question was "Rock and a Hard Place" which was played about 30 times in 1995. Hard to believe.

SW tour proved they could be top-of-the-heap slick. VL was leaning into more varied setlisrs and sloppier bandplay. The semi-acoustic Stripped shows were great because the small venues were a turn on for the band, and they couldn't hide. The best live performances of the post-Taylor era for me. They reached back for this approach for theatre gigs in '99 and '02 with stellar results as well.

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HMS
VL-setlists were better and the playing less clean. The costumes were less awful than those from SW/UJ. Jagger´s hairdo made him finally look like Jagger again. Unfortunately they didn´t include some of DW´s tracks.
The ridicilous inflateable dolls were gone, weren´t they?
And thank God they removed most of Steel Wheel´s songs from the setlist.
Overall VL was more stonesy than SW/UJ.

FORTUNATELY for the VL tour they did not include ANY tracks from their worst album ever - a huge mistake made for the SW/UJ tour.

For your sake only, GasLightStreet, before all is said and done, I hope there's a one-night only DIRTY WORK live at The Fonda Theatre.

The Guitar Department was stronger in 89, plus they still had Bill but I still find the VL tour more listenable. Better Sound mix and set lists. And except for maybe Almost Hear You sigh and Terrifying, I think the VL songs were better live then the SW stuff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-10 05:26 by ryanpow.

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TeddyB1018
SW tour proved they could be top-of-the-heap slick. VL was leaning into more varied setlisrs and sloppier bandplay. The semi-acoustic Stripped shows were great because the small venues were a turn on for the band, and they couldn't hide. The best live performances of the post-Taylor era for me. They reached back for this approach for theatre gigs in '99 and '02 with stellar results as well.

The smaller the venue, the better they seem to get.

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Rocky Dijon
For your sake only, GasLightStreet, before all is said and done, I hope there's a one-night only DIRTY WORK live at The Fonda Theatre.

That's almost funny.

The VL tour they did more. It wasn't a safe setlist like the SW/UJ one was. That was essentially HOT ROCKS+REWIND. As pointed out the guitar wizardry wasn't there but just slowing things down a bit helped. They were certainly much looser on the VL tour.

As much as I enjoy the tight guitar playing on the SW tour, the garish '80s fashion, the weird bolo ties, Mick's short hair, and his overly-mechanical dance moves all combine to really date the shows more than any other tour.

I'd rather listen to SW shows than watch them, whereas the style and performances on the Voodoo Louge tour are timeless...I can watch videos of them today and it doesn't scream out '90s the way the SW tour screams '80s.

There were blow up dolls on the VL tour. I remember a huge Elvis Presley at Wembley. And on occasions they played SW songs such as Rock And a Hard Place and Slipping Away.

My impression was that given their new habit of trying to replicate their studio albums, some of the Steel Wheels shows were a bit stiff; technically perfect but lacking some soul. By 1994 it seemed to me that they had gotten comfortable enough with their new methods to put some more feeling back into their playing...but that's just my opinion.

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

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HonkeyTonkFlash
My impression was that given their new habit of trying to replicate their studio albums, some of the Steel Wheels shows were a bit stiff; technically perfect but lacking some soul. By 1994 it seemed to me that they had gotten comfortable enough with their new methods to put some more feeling back into their playing...but that's just my opinion.

I think that's exactly right. SW was the first time out for the "new" corporate Stones, and you can see some trepidation getting used to this new, tightly-run ship.

By '94, there was some easing up on the more rigid aspects of the show, and it made more a more organic show, even if it fell back into the old sloppy ways sometimes.

VL was a great tour with a mix of new and older songs.

Keith was at his best on VL and Bto B. After that,
he has regressed significantly, but is still effective.

Keith... TY 1981 tour LSTNT
[www.youtube.com]

Keith... BTB 1998 tour LSTNT
[www.youtube.com]

You could do the same comparison with "Miss You." The difference is too much of the time, the arrangements became driven by keyboards and not guitar. There are exceptions, some glorious, but overall Keith and Ronnie played around Chuck adding decorative work to his keyboard melodies. That, to me, was what ruined a lot of performances for me. "Miss You" is a song I have no interest in after 1990. And yes, I love the original.

Thanks for all the responses!
I might be biased in favor of 1989/1990 since I'm one of the few fans that genuinely loves the Steel Wheels album, the two tours' killer stages, and the fact their playing had a tightness to it that we hadn't heard from them since the Taylor years.
But on the VL tour, there was something rough and arrogant about the Stones: a sense of danger had returned to their sound they didn't have in 1989/1990 (or, for that matter, 1981/1982). But it wasn't the 1960s/1970s menacing Stones; it was something new entirely.

Or, stated in another way:

1989/1990 = "We're back and we're better than ever!"

1994/1995 = "Try to string us up! I dare you (I double dare you!): we ain't dead yet, and we're still better than everyone else!"



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-13 07:02 by stevecardi.

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stevecardi
Thanks for all the responses!
I might be biased in favor of 1989/1990 since I'm one of the few fans that genuinely loves the Steel Wheels album, the two tours' killer stages, and the fact their playing had a tightness to it that we hadn't heard from them since the Taylor years.
But on the VL tour, there was something rough and arrogant about the Stones: a sense of danger had returned to their sound they didn't have in 1989/1990 (or, for that matter, 1981/1982). But it wasn't the 1960s/1970s menacing Stones; it was something new entirely.

Or, stated in another way:

1989/1990 = "We're back and we're better than ever!"

1994/1995 = "Try to string us up! I dare you (I double dare you!): we ain't dead yet, and we're still better than everyone else!"

Everything about the Voodoo Lounge marketing was darker and more menacing.

The liner note photos, the RS cover shoot with the masks, the fantastic Love Is Strong video, Mick in the Baron Samedi outfit for Sympathy, the way Keith dressed...there was a playful edge and darkness to their aesthetic during that period which was really fantastic.

It was all posturing, but they really did come off as badass. That period is what got me hooked on the Stones when I was a teen. The Love is Strong video and their performance at the VMAs reeled me in and I was hooked for life.

mmmmm yeah those menacing Love Is Strong lyrics .... LD



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
mmmmm yeah those menacing Love Is Strong lyrics .... LD

Nobody's claiming VL was Jagger's shining moment as a lyricist.