Was just thinking that out of 55 years of the Stones, (even though I really enjoy their late career material as well) almost all their best material was written from 1965, when Keith rolled out of bed in Florida with Satisfaction in his head, to 1977, when the Some Girls sessions ended. (Obviously, Tattoo You was recorded in this period as well.) Amazing outpouring over just over a decade. What does this say about how creativity works?

There's a band that went even further : Jane's Addiction.
They recorded 3 albums between 1987 and 1991 yet they wrote 95% of their entire catalogue between 1986 and 1987.
They split up in 91 and reformed a few years after but they never managed to write anything worthy of these two golden years.

the half way point of the stones officially released(not recorded) songs is around 1974. so thats 11 or 12 or so years to record 50% of total output, and 43 years to record inferior quality for the other 50%.

as for live gigs, thay have done over 2000 and yet hit the 1000 mark in 1967, although gigs pre 1970 were a lot shorter, many of the early gigs were 8 to 10 dongs. and in a lot of cases they performed twice a day.

i dont grudge the stones their vast wealth, they worked their socks off and earned very little for a very long time, before the big money came in.

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What does this say about how creativity works?

It says more about the nature of celebrity, at least as it pertains to rock and roll, which doesn't allow an artist to age as gracefully or as prolifically as other forms of expression, like film, art (painting), literature, etc.

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dcba
There's a band that went even further : Jane's Addiction.
They recorded 3 albums between 1987 and 1991 yet they wrote 95% of their entire catalogue between 1986 and 1987.
They split up in 91 and reformed a few years after but they never managed to write anything worthy of these two golden years.

Yeah, I just read Slash's autobiography and apparently GN'R was similar - a lot of the best-known Use Your Illusion songs were written during the Appetite Sessions

You're right, in one aspect, of it being "like 12 years". As far as recording albums go, what you're talking about is 1964 to 1979 technically, it's 15, which is basically what you said.

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GasLightStreet
You're right, in one aspect, of it being "like 12 years". As far as recording albums go, what you're talking about is 1964 to 1979 technically, it's 15, which is basically what you said.

from satisfaction ('65) to writing/recording of Some Girls (completed in '77)

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GasLightStreet
You're right, in one aspect, of it being "like 12 years". As far as recording albums go, what you're talking about is 1964 to 1979 technically, it's 15, which is basically what you said.

from satisfaction ('65) to writing/recording of Some Girls (completed in '77)

For some reason I thought you included TATTOO YOU, which has the latest (band) recordings being 1979.

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GasLightStreet
You're right, in one aspect, of it being "like 12 years". As far as recording albums go, what you're talking about is 1964 to 1979 technically, it's 15, which is basically what you said.

from satisfaction ('65) to writing/recording of Some Girls (completed in '77)

For some reason I thought you included TATTOO YOU, which has the latest (band) recordings being 1979.

Oh yeah, good point, but I think the significants songs/hits were pretty all pre-'77 - Start Me Up Worried About You & Hang Fire from Black & Blue, Waiting On A Friend from Goats Head Soup, etc.

Slave, from BAB, and Tops from GHS, of course.

I still love Neighbours, from what all I can tell, one of two of the actual newest songs on TATTOO YOU.

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GasLightStreet
Slave, from BAB, and Tops from GHS, of course.

I still love Neighbours, from what all I can tell, one of two of the actual newest songs on TATTOO YOU.

Yeah, I think Neighbors may have actually been the one track the band cut in '81

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What does this say about how creativity works?

It says more about the nature of celebrity, at least as it pertains to rock and roll, which doesn't allow an artist to age as gracefully or as prolifically as other forms of expression, like film, art (painting), literature, etc.

I think it says something about rock and roll, really. I love it, and it's not less "creative" than other genres, but compared to, say, jazz or classical, the ideas are extremely simple and the musicianship is unsophisticated. These are good things, as far as I'm concerned, but they aren't the basis for a lifetime of creative work. As Lester Bangs said when Black and Blue came out, there's only so many ways you can recycle Chuck Berry before you run out of ideas.

More says a lot because of how long their career is that that seems short. I mean the Beatles did everything in what, 6 years? And you could argue thats more revered and analyzed than the Stones' 12. Again, the Stones 12 seems reasonable, or even amazing, when compared to their 50+ year career. But actually if anything its just an impressive long amount of time for creativity. Most bands have 5, maybe 10 GREAT years. But thats why the Stones are the best of the best. I feel you could look at a lot of great bands and its all from a 3-5 year timespan. Just natural.

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buttons67
gigs pre 1970 were a lot shorter, many of the early gigs were 8 to 10 dongs. and in a lot of cases they performed twice a day.

This made me larf out bloody LOUD. With 8-10 Dongs they SHOULD be able to perform MORE than twice a day!!!

Rod

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buttons67
gigs pre 1970 were a lot shorter, many of the early gigs were 8 to 10 dongs. and in a lot of cases they performed twice a day.

This made me larf out bloody LOUD. With 8-10 Dongs they SHOULD be able to perform MORE than twice a day!!!

The best dongs are from that era.

There are exceptions to the rule, of course.
Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Paul Simon, Neil Young spring to mind.

Mick once said a key to the Stones longevity was:
80% luck
10% talent
10% hard work

As has been said on this site many times, The Stones are 'entertainers' foremost, Dylan etc more 'artists'. Hence the differences in creativity.

They stopped spending a lot of time together, hence they wouldn't invest the time necessary to create songs on the same level. At least, that could be one of the reasons.

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DandelionPowderman
They stopped spending a lot of time together,

A natural progression. Would you want to be locked in a 50-year (& Counting) sausage party?

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GasLightStreet
Slave, from BAB, and Tops from GHS, of course.

I still love Neighbours, from what all I can tell, one of two of the actual newest songs on TATTOO YOU.

Yeah, I think Neighbors may have actually been the one track the band cut in '81

Most likely not -there were no band sessions in 1980 or 1981, all sessions were mixing and overdubbing by Jagger and sporadically Richards only. Neighbors most likely is from 1979. Same for Heaven. Start Me Up Is from early 1978, and not from the B&B sessions.

Mathijs

They wrote dozens of very good-excellent songs post 1977. But the musical landscape has changed dramatically then. The golden days of rock music were gone. Had those days continued, many of the post-77-songs would be classics just like the songs of 1971/72. For example, Rough Justice or Flip The Switch would have been enormously successful, those songs would have had the same impact as Brown Sugar! No doubt One Hit would have been a chart-topper. But there´s no use in moaning, every decade belongs to a different audience/different style of music, the old bands have to step back and make way for younger bands, it has always been that way. Bands like the Stones and Deep Purple still made good music but the younger audience didn´t cared, they found new heroes and the die-hard-fans got older and decided to live in the past, glorifying the 1968-72-period and missing a lot of good music. Everything was written in like 12 years? No.

You could narrow the creative period down even more, to 1965 to 1970. That's when most of the songs were written, even songs that were recorded later, and the invented their blueprint for recording.

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HMS
They wrote dozens of very good-excellent songs post 1977. But the musical landscape has changed dramatically then. The golden days of rock music were gone. Had those days continued, many of the post-77-songs would be classics just like the songs of 1971/72. For example, Rough Justice or Flip The Switch would have been enormously successful, those songs would have had the same impact as Brown Sugar! No doubt One Hit would have been a chart-topper. But there´s no use in moaning, every decade belongs to a different audience/different style of music, the old bands have to step back and make way for younger bands, it has always been that way. Bands like the Stones and Deep Purple still made good music but the younger audience didn´t cared, they found new heroes and the die-hard-fans got older and decided to live in the past, glorifying the 1968-72-period and missing a lot of good music. Everything was written in like 12 years? No.

Right from start to end, bands/artists from 10 years ago are struggling to sell their music today, let alone artists from 20 years ago. The audiences are always changing.

After these golden years it seems that Mick's writing got more and more formulaic (verse/chorus/verse with a great hook to "sell" it) while Keef got more and more adventurous.
On the post-1989 albums Keef's song(s) is/are always what pleasently surprise me cause they try to explore new grouds. Otoh I can recognize a MJ song as a nice solid but not surprising tune.

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HMS
They wrote dozens of very good-excellent songs post 1977. But the musical landscape has changed dramatically then. The golden days of rock music were gone. Had those days continued, many of the post-77-songs would be classics just like the songs of 1971/72. For example, Rough Justice or Flip The Switch would have been enormously successful, those songs would have had the same impact as Brown Sugar! No doubt One Hit would have been a chart-topper. But there´s no use in moaning, every decade belongs to a different audience/different style of music, the old bands have to step back and make way for younger bands, it has always been that way. Bands like the Stones and Deep Purple still made good music but the younger audience didn´t cared, they found new heroes and the die-hard-fans got older and decided to live in the past, glorifying the 1968-72-period and missing a lot of good music. Everything was written in like 12 years? No.

Rough Justice and Flip The Switch comparable with Brown Sugar? I think you're getting mad. What a nonsense. Rough Justice and Flip The Switch are caricature Stones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-11 17:56 by Monsoon Ragoon.

If there would have not been Brown Sugar but Rough Justice/Flip The Switch instead in 1971, those songs would be classics. This is not caricature Stones (I cannot understand how one can see it as a caricature) this is Stones in all their glory. Of course the sound is familiar after all these years but imagine Rough Justice being released in 1971. Critics and fans would have been delighted. Not to mention latter-day gems like Love Is Strong or Undercover Of The Night. On par with the best I´d say. Unfortunately songs like these never got what they deserved.

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GasLightStreet
Slave, from BAB, and Tops from GHS, of course.

I still love Neighbours, from what all I can tell, one of two of the actual newest songs on TATTOO YOU.

Yeah, I think Neighbors may have actually been the one track the band cut in '81

Most likely not -there were no band sessions in 1980 or 1981, all sessions were mixing and overdubbing by Jagger and sporadically Richards only. Neighbors most likely is from 1979. Same for Heaven. Start Me Up Is from early 1978, and not from the B&B sessions.

Mathijs

The reggae version of Start Me Up is from Black and Blue, I think the rock version may be from '78

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HMS
If there would have not been Brown Sugar but Rough Justice/Flip The Switch instead in 1971, those songs would be classics. This is not caricature Stones (I cannot understand how one can see it as a caricature) this is Stones in all their glory. Of course the sound is familiar after all these years but imagine Rough Justice being released in 1971. Critics and fans would have been delighted. Not to mention latter-day gems like Love Is Strong or Undercover Of The Night. On par with the best I´d say. Unfortunately songs like these never got what they deserved.

I thought after the release of ABB that It Won't Take Long is the first (and only) song comparable with Start Me Up or Brown Sugar after 1981. But the mentioned ones are mediocre rockers at best IMHO. Everything on Undercover or Dirty Work is better. Sounds like they wanted to sound like the semi-fans wanted them to sound.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-11 19:47 by Monsoon Ragoon.

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GasLightStreet
Slave, from BAB, and Tops from GHS, of course.

I still love Neighbours, from what all I can tell, one of two of the actual newest songs on TATTOO YOU.

Yeah, I think Neighbors may have actually been the one track the band cut in '81

Most likely not -there were no band sessions in 1980 or 1981, all sessions were mixing and overdubbing by Jagger and sporadically Richards only. Neighbors most likely is from 1979. Same for Heaven. Start Me Up Is from early 1978, and not from the B&B sessions.

Mathijs

The reggae version of Start Me Up is from Black and Blue, I think the rock version may be from '78

No, there's 3 reggae versions available in tape trading circles and all are from 1978. There's no B&B version known.

Mathijs

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GasLightStreet
Slave, from BAB, and Tops from GHS, of course.

I still love Neighbours, from what all I can tell, one of two of the actual newest songs on TATTOO YOU.

Yeah, I think Neighbors may have actually been the one track the band cut in '81

Most likely not -there were no band sessions in 1980 or 1981, all sessions were mixing and overdubbing by Jagger and sporadically Richards only. Neighbors most likely is from 1979. Same for Heaven. Start Me Up Is from early 1978, and not from the B&B sessions.

Mathijs

The reggae version of Start Me Up is from Black and Blue, I think the rock version may be from '78

No, there's 3 reggae versions available in tape trading circles and all are from 1978. There's no B&B version known.

Mathijs

Chris Kimsey says it was cut in march '75... [www.soundonsound.com]

Most of the lyrics in "Start Me Up" were written in 1978. I hear that Keith has been going to Germano Studio on Broadway since February. Don Was and Theodora stopped by.