This is my first posting here, although I have been a huge fan of the Stones since 78. Along with Zeppelin they are my favorite band. I am intrigued somewhat by their song English Summer. They where planning on releasing this song during the summer of 67 as a single, but then while having their legal troubles during that summer substituted We Love You as a thank you to their fans for their support. English Summer was put on the shelf never to be released. Has anyone heard this song? The Stones must have thought this song had the potential to be a hit since they announced it to the press at that time they wanted to release it as a single. I wonder since they are opening their vaults now if it will ever get a proper release?

Thanks

Was it anounced at the time?

Never heard it, but would love too.

Just based on the title I'm thinking a Stonesy "Waterloo Sunset".

There are those who speculate that it was a working title for "Dandelion." Allegedly, Marianne Faithfull also recorded a version of the song.

Early working title for "Dandelion"

can see why it didn't stick....just singing to my self here...."blow away english SUMMER!!!!" just doesn't cut it....

According to the book It's only Rock'n Rollthe ultimate guide to the Rolling Stones by Kaanbach and Benson with foreward by Mick Taylor, English Summer was recorded in London between November 9 through the 26 at Olympic or Pye studio and was not an early version of DSandelion which was also recorded during those sessions. It was announced to the music trade papers during the summer of 67 that it would be their next single and was scheduled to be released in June or July 67. Dandelion was the b side of We Love you.

I've never seen any anouncment about it, which papers did it appear in?

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His Majesty
I've never seen any anouncment about it, which papers did it appear in?

Yeah, you make me very curious

The early version of Dandelion was Sometimes Happy Sometimes Blue, these where the Between the Buttons sessions and other unreleased songs from those sessions where Godzi, Get yourself together and All part of the act. English Summer is the only song I know of by the Stones that was earmarked and announced to be released as a single but then never released.

The book says it was, but where exactly was it announced!?

I have quite a number of 1966 - 1967 music mags, papers etc and can't recall seeing any mention of it.

I'm still inclined to think they're the same track. Since it's never circulated there is no way to be certain. "Sometimes Happy, Sometimes Blue" is an extremely primitive guide vocal displaying the chords that eventually become "Dandelion." "English Summer" might not have been an actual lyric. There's also the matter of "Dandelion" being the A-side Stateside and, based on the promo films that were completed, the band and Decca thought the song was a double A-side since films were done for both "Dandelion" and "We Love You." Since the single is the last crediting Oldham as producer to be released, I'm considering it likely that it is in fact "Dandelion" under a different name. Perhaps Marianne will confirm this at some point.

There's a promo for Dandelion?

Wolfgang Michels, a german musician who also worked for TELDEC (Telefunken-Decca)in the 80's (he compiled the Rest Of The Best-box set, and had the nerve to include the Chess-outtake Tell Me Baby, How Many Times disguised as Tell Me Version 2 - and of course was responsible for the @#$%& Blues bonus single for this box!) once claimed that he had a tape copy of English Summer. He told me that it was a great,melodic, fully-developed tune, "could have been a hit, can't understand why they did not release it". Knowing his Stones stuff, I'm sure he would have recognized if it was Dandelion or a different version of Dandelion.

Since I have lost contact to Wolfgang since then, maybe someone else here could help out - I must say that I even don't know if he's still alive.

Thanks, retired_dog that settles it for me. Two different tracks then! My guess would be it was scrapped because it would have been a production credit for Andrew. That said, wonder why Andrew didn't include it on METAMORPHOSIS.

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retired_dog

Since I have lost contact to Wolfgang since then, maybe someone else here could help out - I must say that I even don't know if he's still alive.

Not sure how much stock one can put in Wikipedia, but according to the site, Mr. Michels is still alive.

Here's the Wikipedia link to Wolfgang Michels:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Was it anounced at the time?

HM .... Nothing official but do seem to recall a small mention of
English Summer being a future Stones release in one of those UK popteen mags like maybe RAVE



There's a promo for Dandelion?






ROCKMAN

Could something thrown together by Beat Club then.

Andrew Oldham was the producer on this track, and besides the Stones, Nicky Hopkins was present at those sessions. There was also some evidence to suggest they first started working on English Summer during August recording sessions at RCA where the bulk of Between the Buttons was recorded. If the Stones announced that English Summer was to be their next single and was shelved at the last minute to release the double sided single We Love you/Dandelion then it stands to reason they are 2 different songs. I say double sided because Dandelion while the B side in the UK was the A side in the US. If it wasn't in the magazines in the uk then it would have been in the papers during June/July 67. I live in the US so I am not all that familiar with the London music papers. We Love you/Dandelion was released in August 67 as a thank you to their fans for standing by them and a last minute replacement for English Summer.

If it dates from BTB's sessions it's likely that Nicky doesn't play on it.

If it were slated for release and announced it would have appeared in various papers much like their other singles did, but I can't find any mention of it.

Seems like a whole load of claims and speculation about an recording not many people have heard and without anything to really back it up.

probably reworked into another song or songs

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WilliamPatrickMaynard
Thanks, retired_dog that settles it for me. Two different tracks then! My guess would be it was scrapped because it would have been a production credit for Andrew. That said, wonder why Andrew didn't include it on METAMORPHOSIS.

Yes, the fact that Andrew didn't include it on Metamorphosis - and did not even consider it a candidate for its more adventurous forerunner Necrophilia - is strange enough and that's one of the reasons why I still have my doubts (that said, Andrew also did not consider I Can See It aka Get Yourself Together for both projects - a track that definitely exists as evidenced by numerous bootlegs, so...). Plus, it's not even in Bill Wyman's Black Box track selection, while other obscure tracks from the same era are (Godzi, Panama Powder Room).

I still ask myself if Wolfgang Michels was trustworthy or if - despite being a well-known musician (at least back then) and record company employee - he was just telling stories like some of the tape collectors back then ("have this, have that, but, uuhh, can't circulate all this hot stuff!").

Of course, I asked Wolfgang if I could have a tape copy of "English Summer". Of course, his answer was "sorry, no". However, I could understand his position because he claimed that he copied English Summer while searching through Decca London's and Teldec's tape archives for "something special" that he could release on this "Rest Of The Best" project. That way, if English Summer would have leaked on bootlegs, they could trace it back to him. For me a perfect explanation.

However, I can bite my ass off to this very day that I did not dare to ask him if he could at least play some seconds over the phone. Maybe I thought a wish like this could indicate that I was not trusting him! I dunno.

Last minute changes usually mean atleast some records have been pressed, promo stuff put in action etc etc.

A planned, but pulled single hasn't made it to easy to get bootleg or been talked about for 1970's ABCKO releases? Nonsense.

Tis just some waffle in a book, a book which has other iffy claims. Does the track exist? Probably, but this other stuff, hmmm.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-08 01:33 by His Majesty.

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sf37

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retired_dog

Since I have lost contact to Wolfgang since then, maybe someone else here could help out - I must say that I even don't know if he's still alive.

Not sure how much stock one can put in Wikipedia, but according to the site, Mr. Michels is still alive.

Here's the Wikipedia link to Wolfgang Michels:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Yes, that's Wolfgang. If anyone can bring some more light into the English Summer mystery, it's (apart from the Stones or Andrew, of course), him.

Good thread. I remember reading that the Stones scrapped English Summer and gave it to Marianne. I'm equally intrigued by Godzi and Panama Powder Room. Would love to hear this stuff.

I got this info below from Amazon.com usa in regards to the US Between the Buttons album
By Richard R. Carlton (Ada, MI United States) - See all my reviews

"The Between The Buttons tracks were recorded in 1966 as follows:

Aug 3-11, 1966 at RCA Studios in Hollywood
.....Who's Been Sleeping Here?
.....Miss Amanda Jones
.....Connection
.....Back Street Girl
.....All Sold Out
.....Please Go Home
.....Let's Spend The Night Together
.....Something Happened To Me Yesterday
.....Cool, Calm, Collected
.....Complicated
.....Yesterday's Papers
.....She Smiled Sweetly
.....My Obsession
Nov 9-26, 1966 at Olympic and Pye Studios in London
.....Ruby Tuesday
.....final mixes were done on all the Aug RCA Studio tracks as well

Tracks recorded at the Aug RCA sessions but not released on Between The Buttons were:
.....Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby, Standing In The Shadow?
.....Who's Driving Your Plane (also released as Who's Driving My Plane)
Tracks recorded at the Aug RCA sessions but never released were:
.....Panama Powder Room
.....Godzi
.....Get Yourself Together
.....Something BB
Tracks recorded at the Nov Olympic/Pye sessions but not released on Between The Buttons were:
.....Dandelion
Tracks recorded at the Aug RCA sessions but never released were:
.....Trouble In Mind
.....English Summer

An interesting note is that English Summer was intended as a UK single release, but it was put on hold (and never released) when Brian, Mick, and Keith's arrests began in the summer of 67. We Love You was released instead. It was recorded with Nicky Hopkins, John Lennon, and Paul McCartney as a thank you for fan support during the trials.

This information comes from "It's Only Rock And Roll: The Ultimate Guide To The Rolling Stones" by Karnbach and Bernson and from my own collection. "
In regards to the above referenced book being iffy and maybe not reliable. Mick Taylor did write the introduction to this book. He was a vital member of the Rolling Stones golden age of recording and in my opinion the finest guitarist ever in the Rolling Stones

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OutofTime66
This is my first posting here, although I have been a huge fan of the Stones since 78. Along with Zeppelin they are my favorite band. I am intrigued somewhat by their song English Summer. They where planning on releasing this song during the summer of 67 as a single, but then while having their legal troubles during that summer substituted We Love You as a thank you to their fans for their support. English Summer was put on the shelf never to be released. Has anyone heard this song? The Stones must have thought this song had the potential to be a hit since they announced it to the press at that time they wanted to release it as a single. I wonder since they are opening their vaults now if it will ever get a proper release?

Thanks

I like your username, in fact that is one of my fave songs.

I always loved the Aftermath album and Between the Buttons and have the Russian editions of the US and UK version of both with all the bonus songs. I have 3 different versions of Out of Time plus the backing track with out vocals. The 66 and 67 eras of the Stones is one of my favorites. I love all the experimentation they did with songs, especially how important Brian Jones was with all the different instruments he used. That is one of the main reasons I was looking forward to hearing English Summer.

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OutofTime66

In regards to the above referenced book being iffy and maybe not reliable. Mick Taylor did write the introduction to this book.

That doesn't make the information inside the book any more true or not.

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His Majesty
There's a promo for Dandelion?

Yes, I've seen it - about 10 years ago. From hazy memory it looks like a composite of film shot at Olympic in 67 around the time of the We Love You promo, possibly even outtakes. A friend of mine has it so I need to contact him to find out where he got it from.