Is it me or is it only people who can't read music that say you dont need to. I am not the quickest or the fastest reader but I find that you need to have the skill or at least the basic knownledge to speed up your learning and understanding of music in general. Is it over-rated or essential.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-29 02:26 by lapaz62.

I play classical music, and music reading is important when the music you want to play is written, but if you are in rock and roll, blues, reading music will be useful but not the most important thing,

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"I'm gonna walk... before they make me run"

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dandelion1967
I play classical music, and music reading is important when the music you want to play is written, but if you are in rock and roll, blues, reading music will be useful but not the most important thing,

I'm the same with you in that I play classical so reading music is an essential. I find it helps with composition too.

Learn all ya can about reading, theory, etc. It won't hinder your creativity but enhance it.

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lapaz62
Is it me or is it only people who can't read music that say you dont need to.

Like only people with a 2.2 gpa say grades dont matter?

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lapaz62
Is it over-rated or essential.

Well... some very famous and/or accomplished people claim to never read music, so I suppose that might indicate that it may not essential... but if one is not famous and/or accomplished, then one should certainly consider attempting to learn to read it....who knows what "doing the task" might reveal.

I believe in the "spoke method".... like the spokes on a bike wheel... every spoke is a different route, but all lead to the center objective.... by reading music, by using tabs, notation, ears, eyes, original writing, copying others, eliminating, plucking, fighting, throwing, screaming, stopping, starting, muscle memory, changing, listening, watching, expanding, straight, drunk, new partners, learn bass, learn drums, learn piano... or just be one who can become an expert while never taking a lesson.... yet can record and sell "music" and make a bazillion Dollars... in other words, keep doing "it"(something) until it "works"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-29 05:49 by Max'sKansasCity.

My son can read and write music.
Furthermore he has been perfect-pitch person since he was 4 or 5 years old.
But sadly, he never listen to Rolling Stones and rock music.

I always say to him, "You are hitting the right notes but missing the music."

Elmo has it right--Learn to Read!!! You will never regret it and your perspective will change as time goes by---Cheers

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Elmo Lewis
Learn all ya can about reading, theory, etc. It won't hinder your creativity but enhance it.

+1000. And some people actually believe learning these things will ruin their "natural talent" or something.

Is it me or is it only people who can't read music that say you dont need to. I am not the quickest or the fastest reader but I find that you need to have the skill or at least the basic knownledge to speed up your learning and understanding of music in general. Is it over-rated or essential.



As a blues-guitarplayer it's def over-rated....

2 1 2 0

There's more to music than the blues...

vs.

or..

vs.



2 1 2 0

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lapaz62
Is it me or is it only people who can't read music that say you dont need to. I am not the quickest or the fastest reader but I find that you need to have the skill or at least the basic knownledge to speed up your learning and understanding of music in general. Is it over-rated or essential.

Depends on what kind of music you want to play imo.

In rock music, delta blues and mainstream etc, it's not essential. It's all about talent and feeling in the end.
Knowing basic chords and blues and major scales, tricks and licks will do. Trust your ears. It might come in handy though, as reading is a discipline that makes
you understand the guitar or any instrument better. It brightens your horizon.

If you want to play jazz, fusion and classical music you really need to be able to read music in order to play, communicate and understand it, as it gives you a deeper insight in harmonics and improvisation. This also can result in accepting and enjoying music you previously didn't like, as some (even well respected) posters make me smile sometimes. Each to his own of course.

Best learn as much as you can, even a toe dip in to site reading is better than no dip at all.

For those against it, silly really, be aware that The Rolling Stones have used the services of musicians who can site read, for their recordings.

Of course it's nice to be able to read music. But for rock guitar it can be rather limited, and extensive tabs can bring on more information.

By the way, as far as I know Brian Jones was the only Stone who could read music.

Mathijs

I started reading music when I was 10. 30 years later, I rarely look at a staff unless there's a part that I don't feel like learning by ear or one of my students needs help. TAB I have almost no time for due to its inability to communicate rhythms effectively. Every now and then I'll look at it just to see if my ears agree or to just get me close to what I'm trying to do.

All that being said, music is a language and, if we compare it to other languages, you'll see why it's important (though not necessary) to read...

I'm an American who speaks & reads English as my primary language. I am also conversationally functional in Spanish. I can speak it and understand it. Even though I could "survive" in a Spanish speaking country, I would always need assistance with the printed word. I'm what is called functionally illiterate. I can function without being able to read or write. Can I survive? Yes. Will I be able to advance on all levels? Probably not.

Although this isn't a perfect example, I think it will serve as another illustration as to why, though not necessary, it does help to be able to read and write music.

To MaxKC... I like the "spokes" analogy... Had never seen/heard that one before. I like it & will most likely use it in the future. Kudos.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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Mathijs
Of course it's nice to be able to read music. But for rock guitar it can be rather limited, and extensive tabs can bring on more information.

By the way, as far as I know Brian Jones was the only Stone who could read music.

Mathijs

Tabs are ok and certainly a quick fix. Everything you write in tabs for rock guitar can be written in notation though.
Notation leaves something for your own interpretation like changing a fingering type. Tabs don't.

So written music always brings on more information compared to tabs. Medieval lute music etc was written in tabs btw. The style of music has really nothing to do with it.

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Mathijs
Of course it's nice to be able to read music. But for rock guitar it can be rather limited, and extensive tabs can bring on more information.

Although I once knew how to read music "fluently", I am now only able to decipher it.

Just as an addition, I would not limit the usefulness of tabs only to rock guitar. On any guitar you have many ways to play the very same note. Tabs give information about where to play the note, which can be critical for the part to be played properly at the right speed.

But, and especially with bands like the Stones, the position is important in terms of sound. The very same note, played on different strings, will never sound the same.

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Come On
vs.

or..

vs.

Not sure what's the joke here or the point you're trying to make.

I think it depends on what style of music you play.

Bluegrass is a very challenging style that requires a lot of virtuoso ability to play it

but I'd say most bluegrass musicians learn from family and friends, and records, and cant read music per se...tab, yes if anything

Jazz, on the other hand, also requires a lot of advanced technique, there are very few jazz players who aren't fluent readers. they have to be able to read music, and know a vast repertoire of standards.

Rock and blues, and folk/Americana styles...well, its not necessary, its knowledge passed mostly from musician to musician..

but it doesn't hurt to be able to read music for those styles

Hendrix meting Miles Davis was frustrated by his inability to read the music Miles handed him.

But no one can say he couldn't play...

It's not necessary at all to know how to read music to be a good, even great musician, but it certainly doesn't hurt to know, the problem is the idiotic belief that it's "damaging" or something to learn theory,scales and that kind of stuff.

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mr_dja
To MaxKC... I like the "spokes" analogy... Had never seen/heard that one before. I like it & will most likely use it in the future. Kudos.

Peace,
Mr DJA

That is always awesome to hear , feel free to use as you desire.

I came up with that (I think I did) because I started playing very late in life.... after having already "learned how to learn" other things. When it comes to beginning to learn how to play guitar there are so many voices about how to.... and it seems some things just dont make sense... and some people love to start right in with theory while others say just play barre chords while others say everything from here to infinity and beyond.. (btw- to the people who intantly suggest that new players should first start using barre chords... Until a new player's fingers are ready, and strong enough, please dont advise starting out with barre chords... of course you can do them... you have been doing them for years, but a new (older) player may have issues (kids, of course, might pick it right up)

I do not suggest any one single method to do... I suggest using the spoke approach and whatever works best (and is most fun)(leading to success) for an individiual is what one should do... but if I did suggest one method....

I would suggest older "new players" should start simple and get their playing fingers in shape by learning to play verbatim "blues boxes".... which means learning where and how to hold down the proper frets... Do a search for these, or ask someone... once again it is easy, you just have to try it... here is a simple picture of an example

just play the boxes up and down neck and get your muscle memory working... have fun doing that while maybe exploring other "spokes"... dont take any spoke too serious, have fun with it. Maybe try using a tab to play some hot lick of music which you have loved your whole life... man .... what is cooler than when you are able to reproduce some piece of music, on your own, which you have always loved...

Reading music is easy... no mystery, there are lines, the lines indicate certain notes... the spaces in between the lines indicate certain notes...
the 5 lines on a sheet music = 5 notes

e g b d f = every good boy does fine



in between line = the other notes

e f g a b c d e f



The are little "music note" thingys sitting on the lines indicate type e.g. 1/8 note, 1/4 note, 1/2 note aka how long you play that note.



When one is writing sheet music one wants the totals from box thingy (called a stanza?)to box thingy(stanza?) to equal each other, that means if you have 1/8 1/8 1/4 1/2 in one box that equals one full note... so in the next box just make sure the total equals one note.....
first stanza 1/8 1/8 1/4 1/2 first box...
next stanza has 1/4 1/4 1/2
next box stanza 1/2 1/2
next one has 1/8 1/8 1/2 1/4 etc etc
or you could just have a full note...
as long as each one is equal you are all good.

Of course the if the first stanza has 1 1/2 total notes, makes sure the next one also has 1 1/2 total notes.

It is really not that hard.... the tricky part is the ability to look at an unfamiliar piece of sheet music and instantly be able to translate it into your eyes up to your brain and out through your fingers...

PS
REMEMBER-
Practice DOES NOT make perfect.
PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT.

pps
new players.... keep that guitar out in the open
in front of you, pick her up, keep her happy, play her often.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-29 19:50 by Max'sKansasCity.

Here another interesting approach for guitarists:

When you are writing music you want the totals from box thingy to box thingy to equal each other

LOVE IT!!! Specifically the term "box thingy". More proof that the "spoke method" works! Just make sure to never tell the guys from Rush and certain other prog rock bands that all the "box thingys" should be equal. Thankfully, most popular music does follow this rule but, I swear, sometimes I think the prog rockers break it just for their own ammusement purposes. I love it though when guys like Muddy Waters & Johnny Cash add/subtract extra beats because that's the way they feel (felt) it (Although this can make playing live ROUGH).

It is really not that hard.... Truer words have never been typed. Amazing what a little effort can accomplish.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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Amsterdamned
Here another interesting approach for guitarists:

That is really cool, showing the relationship of piano and guitar... they both simply (can be used to) play notes... and the video shows the relationship of the individual notes and how they can combine to make sweet sounding chords... and how those chords can be recreated up.... up.... up.... the neck (and across the keyboard)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-29 20:06 by Max'sKansasCity.

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mr_dja
When you are writing music you want the totals from box thingy to box thingy to equal each other

LOVE IT!!! Specifically the term "box thingy". More proof that the "spoke method" works! Just make sure to never tell the guys from Rush and certain other prog rock bands that all the "box thingys" should be equal. Thankfully, most popular music does follow this rule but, I swear, sometimes I think the prog rockers break it just for their own ammusement purposes. I love it though when guys like Muddy Waters & Johnny Cash add/subtract extra beats because that's the way they feel (felt) it (Although this can make playing live ROUGH).

It is really not that hard.... Truer words have never been typed. Amazing what a little effort can accomplish.

Peace,
Mr DJA

awesome

That is really funny (true) about Rush, so I guess the first rule of music is whatver sounds good to folks, thus "the rules" sometimes ( [www.allaboutjazz.com] ) do not apply. It is great to hear the rest of your comments too .... box thingy... lol... yeah, there is no need to take this music stuff so serious, have fun, cuz fuin is a good thing to have.

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Max'sKansasCity

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Amsterdamned
Here another interesting approach for guitarists:

That is really cool, showing the relationship of piano and guitar... they both simply (can be used to) play notes... and the video shows the relationship of the individual notes and how they can combine to make sweet sounding chords... and how those chords can be recreated up.... up.... up.... the neck (and across the keyboard)

The tones are unfold as they appear in the scale, which
is a really uncommon approach when it comes to guitar chords. It sounds great imo.

Where music is concerned, having fun may be the ONLY thing when it comes right down to it (That's a debate that I don't want to start though).

I'll never forget the night I was in northern Italy and ended up on stage jamming with the house band. They didn't speek English and my Italian is nonexistant. However, we did all speek "music". When they said to play in the key of "Do", I knew to go to "C". Once I figured that out, I could tell them to play in "La" and they'd be right in "A" like I needed them to be. We jammed for over 90 minutes, had a wonderful time and then couldn't talk to each other once we came off stage as that was a language barrier we couldn't overcome!

Peace,
Mr DJA

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mr_dja
Where music is concerned, having fun may be the ONLY thing when it comes right down to it (That's a debate that I don't want to start though).

I'll never forget the night I was in northern Italy and ended up on stage jamming with the house band. They didn't speek English and my Italian is nonexistant. However, we did all speek "music". When they said to play in the key of "Do", I knew to go to "C". Once I figured that out, I could tell them to play in "La" and they'd be right in "A" like I needed them to be. We jammed for over 90 minutes, had a wonderful time and then couldn't talk to each other once we came off stage as that was a language barrier we couldn't overcome!

Peace,
Mr DJA

cool story! what instrument do you play? what songs or type of music did the jam consist of?

My primary instrument is bass guitar. That particular night I played guitar and mainly sang. The music we played that night was mainly old rock & roll & blues. Lots of Chuck Berry, Bill Haley & the Comets, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, etc. Anything I could remember the words to actually. Afterwards, when I could get past the language issues, the comment I kept hearing variations of was "so nice to hear an American sing these songs". I am by no means the type of vocalist that will make you write home about my vocal skills, but I do know how to slur and slang with the best of them!

Peace,
Mr DJA

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Amsterdamned

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Mathijs
Of course it's nice to be able to read music. But for rock guitar it can be rather limited, and extensive tabs can bring on more information.

By the way, as far as I know Brian Jones was the only Stone who could read music.

Mathijs

Tabs are ok and certainly a quick fix. Everything you write in tabs for rock guitar can be written in notation though.
Notation leaves something for your own interpretation like changing a fingering type. Tabs don't.

So written music always brings on more information compared to tabs. Medieval lute music etc was written in tabs btw. The style of music has really nothing to do with it.

Not true -tabs are better for the notation of technicallity's like whammy bar dives, pic scrapes, pull-off's and -on's, and any other noise making. As an example, Steve Vai was hired by Frank Zappa to transfer all of Zappa's playing in notation. Vai discovered that in order to do that, he had to show certain parts in tab.

The main problem with tab indeed is that it does not give information about timing without making it more complicated.

Mathijs