OK, so among my musical hobbies is transferring LPs to CD by first re-equalizing and then recording them to a MiniDisc. This set-up allows me to do everything one used to be able to do with tape but in the digital domain plus enjoy the benefits of digital technology. As such I'm fond of creating 'lost albums' and foisting them on friends and associates. The talk of the Some Girls reissue this fall got me to thinking that it might be sub-par as the Exile SE arguably was. So, why not do my own? This is what I have thus far. What would you add or subtract? BTW, I KNOW MOST OF THE TIMINGS ARE NOT CORRECT. Preparing the packaging (I'm a professional designer) is part of this, as yet, unfinished project.

DISC ONE:

THE ORIGINAL RECORDINGS
1 Miss You (long version) 8:36
2 When the Whip Comes Down 4:20
3 Just My Imagination (Running Away with Me) 4:38
4 Some Girls 4:36
5 Lies 3:11
6 Far Away Eyes 4:24
7 Respectable 3:06
8 Before They Make Me Run 3:25
9 Beast of Burden 4:25
10 Shattered 3:48
11 Everything's Turning To Gold (Shattered b-side) 4:24

LIVE, SUMMER 1978
12 Let It Rock (Detroit, Michigan) 4:46
13 Lies (Detroit, Michigan) 4:46
13 When The Whip Comes Down (Detroit, Michigan) 4:25
14 Just My Imagination (Detroit, Michigan) 6:38
15 Beast of Burden (Lexington, Kentucky) 7:05

Track 1 from original 12" single. Tracks 2 through 10 from
Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs Original Master vinyl LP.
Tracks 12 through 15 originally recorded for the King
Biscuit Flower Hour.

DISC TWO:

THE ARTIFACTS
1 Miss You (longer 8-track tape version) 5:36
2 When the Whip Comes Down (unreleased acetate version) 4:20
3 Far Away Eyes (shorter 8-track tape version) 4:24
4 Before They Make Me Run (radio promo version) 3:25
5 Beast of Burden (longer 8-track tape version) 4:25
6 Shattered 3:48 (shorter 8-track tape version)
7 Claudine 3:08 (unreleased studio track)

LIVE, SUMMER 1978
8 Respectable (Passaic, New Jersey) 4:46
9 Shattered (Passaic, New Jersey) 6:38
10 Sweet Little Sixteen (Passaic, New Jersey) 3:36
11 Miss You (Fort Worth, Texas) 8:25
12 Love In Vain (Memphis, Tennessee) 5:38
13 Far Away Eyes (with Doug Kershaw, Fort Worth, Texas) 4:46
14 Star, Star (Detroit, Michigan) 4:25

ONE MORE ARTIFACT
15 Beast Of Burden (short version) 3:36

Tracks 1, 3, 5 & 6 remastered from 8-track tape. Tracks 2, 4 and 15 from 45rpm records. Track 7 from digital source. Tracks 8 through 10 taken from East Coast radio broadcast released in Fall 1978 as the bootleg "Garden State '78." Tracks 11 through 14 originally recorded for the King Biscuit Flower Hour.

alternate version of Some Girls is also worth adding ("give me all your diamonds, give me all your clothes / but I don't want your mother, she's to goddamn old" )
besides - my SG Deluxe would be a 7-disc set

PS - man, I'd love to see cover art for this x)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-12 18:19 by Amused.

Quote
Amused
alternate version of Some Girls is also worth adding ("give me all your diamonds, give me all your clothes / but I don't want your mother, she's to goddamn old" )

I don't have that version of Some Girls. Is it decent quality? Can it be downloaded from Hot Stuff? I should have mentioned, one of my main criterions is consistent quality of the source material. I can tweak it sonically but I won't put lipstick on a pig. My goal is an exciting listen, not the history lesson that too many reissue projects become.

nope, it's well 3/5 in sound quality, listenable but twice as muddy as Exile x)
I've got it on a bootleg "All Them Girls" in lossless, can upload if you wanna judge for yourself.

I'm very impressed with your know-how and creativity, but confused as to the choices.

Why use the long "Miss You" (which is fun, but arguably benefitted from the edit) before running through the original album? Especially when including another rare "Miss You?" Why break up the 1978 concert tracks?

Why not use some of the Woodstock rehearsal material? And above all, why not use some of the great Pathe-Marconi outtakes? Dyin' for best-ever sounding "Linda Lu," "You Win Again" and so many others from this dazzling period...maybe even some Keith Toronto stuff.

As a designer, how would you package it? I love the original artwork--how would you complement and extend the original visual signature of the album, while adding to the historical depth of the archival release?

As a designer, how would you package it? I love the original artwork--how would you complement and extend the original visual signature of the album, while adding to the historical depth of the archival release?

.........eeeerrr maybe explicite nude shots of Lucille Ball and Raquel Welch on thee inner sleeeeve would rock things up a bit .........



ROCKMAN

Quote
Amused
nope, it's well 3/5 in sound quality, listenable but twice as muddy as Exile x)
I've got it on a bootleg "All Them Girls" in lossless, can upload if you wanna judge for yourself.

If that's still alright...yes please...........

I had forgotten all about the version of "Far Away Eyes" with Doug Kershaw. Now that you mentioned it I am going to go give it another listen. Good luck with your Some Girls project, sounds interesting.

There are many more interesting outtakes to include : Do You Think I Really Care, No Spare Parts, Fiji Jim, Everlasting Is My Love, A Different Kind, Do You Get Enough, I Need You...

Quote
Rev. Robert W.
I'm very impressed with your know-how and creativity, but confused as to the choices.

Why use the long "Miss You" (which is fun, but arguably benefitted from the edit) before running through the original album? Especially when including another rare "Miss You?" Why break up the 1978 concert tracks?

Why not use some of the Woodstock rehearsal material? And above all, why not use some of the great Pathe-Marconi outtakes? Dyin' for best-ever sounding "Linda Lu," "You Win Again" and so many others from this dazzling period...maybe even some Keith Toronto stuff.

As a designer, how would you package it? I love the original artwork--how would you complement and extend the original visual signature of the album, while adding to the historical depth of the archival release?

I LIKE the long "Miss You." It's as simple as that. Obviously the choice is subjective but I've enjoyed this second longest full band recording (Goin' Home being the first) for 35 years, it fits and augments the flow and, ultimately, people listening to the collection who are less ardent in their interest will enjoy it and be surprised by it. I put it there for the same reason I put Everything's Turning Too Gold at the end, as though it were a part of the album. If the listener wants the original, it can be had for $7.99 anywhere. As for the concert tracks, that too is subjective. I strive for a consistent, enjoyable listen within each 80 minute segment. Obviously a CD of all live tracks makes sense but then the 8T versions would be sequestered at the end of the main disc resulting in much the same program repeating which might be interesting to the historically inclined but does not lend itself to an ass-kicking listen. The 8T and alternate mixes are interesting enough that they need to be featured - not tacked on. Again, my goal is to present a "Wow, no sh*t?!?" listen to the casual fan, not the Stones equivalent of the entire Miles Davis "Bitches Brew" sessions, for example. For that reason I left the works-in-progress (i.e. the Pathe-Marconi stuff) out. Likewise, more finished songs in sub-par quality will stop the casual listener dead although you do have a point about "Do You Think I Care." Finally, the finished sonics of the KBFH stuff is a drastic departure from Passaic so mixing them up isn't a good idea.

I DON'T HAVE the Woodstock rehearsals and, obviously, I should. They could take the place of some of the live stuff on disc two if they are of good enough sonic quality. Finally, I intentionally left out live versions of the warhorses preferring instead to present unusual covers (LIR, Sweet 16) and Star, Star which could have easily been re-recorded by this version of the Stones and plugged right into Some Girls. The Memphis version of Love In Vain is simply jawdropping and I love the juxtaposition this brilliant blues against the more ragged, punkier material.

As for the design, I'm not getting carried away. Thus far I've prepared a more close-up version of the original cover, resizing some the lettering and giving it more impact in the 4.75" CD realm. Some Girls had a great cover but it was designed to be experienced in the 12" format. I also have a panel showing minis of four different covers (the color bars being the variant). They form a nifty design when used together. I also have minis of the appropriate 45 pic sleeves and info about those titles along with repros of a print ad and the Mao-style tour poster that so pissed off my Dad back in the day.

When all is said and done, the goal is not to teach history but rather create an ass-kicking listen. We're talking the Rolling Stones after all.

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
Amused
nope, it's well 3/5 in sound quality, listenable but twice as muddy as Exile x)
I've got it on a bootleg "All Them Girls" in lossless, can upload if you wanna judge for yourself.

If that's still alright...yes please...........

[dl.dropbox.com]
it'll be available in ten minutes or so, have fun x)

Hmmmnnnn....

If quality standouts from the Woodstock rehearsals replaced the live stuff on Disc One the live stuff could be moved to the FRONT of disc two and the "artifacts" could be moved to the second half of disc two which makes for an even better flow....

BWAHAHAHA!

I'm off to seek out the W'Stock rehearsals at Hot Stuff.

Pardon me for thinking out loud :-)

In 2009, I compiled what was most of the outtakes for the songs that were released on SG. It took quite awhile (there are so many haphazard comps of this material, with and without versions #s) and I probably missed some songs:

Miss You II                     11:44
Miss You III                     7:27
Miss You IV                      9:24
When The Whip Comes Down I       9:55
When The Whip Comes Down II      7:23
When The Whip Comes Down III    10:31
Just My Imagination I or II      2:45
Just My Imagination III          7:12
Just My Imagination IV           6:51

Some Girls I                     6:29
Some Girls II                    5:14
Lies I                           3:41
Lies II                          4:14
Lies III                         3:49
Far Away Eyes I                  4:36
Far Away Eyes II                 5:33
Respectable I                    3:52
Respectable III                  3:49
Before They Make Me Run I        4:34
Before They Make Me Run IV       3:18
Beast Of Burden I                5:05
Shattered I                      3:23
Shattered II                     3:46

Quote
Amused

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
Amused
nope, it's well 3/5 in sound quality, listenable but twice as muddy as Exile x)
I've got it on a bootleg "All Them Girls" in lossless, can upload if you wanna judge for yourself.

If that's still alright...yes please...........

[dl.dropbox.com]
it'll be available in ten minutes or so, have fun x)

Great stuff Amused....thanks very much, Eddie

The longer version (~9 minute) of Everything's Turning To Gold might be a good addition. Would be nice to hear both the shorter and the longer versions more evenly balanced throughout the song. The versions available on CD all have some pretty bad sound engineering with some random fade outs in the middle of the song. Somewhat ruins what could have been a classic



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-13 21:08 by wanderingspirit66.

Nice effort, G, but the REAL gems of the 1977-78 studio sessions is not captured on the 8-track tape, nor any other official releases.

The live versions on your selection, makes no sense, as they are......well they are stolen away from the concert they belong in. I'd rather see a COMPLETE Fort Worth 1978 DVD released officially....it'll make much more sense....instead of some

"More Fast Numbers" (DAC) is a brilliant compilation of SOME of the 1977/78 outtakes. VG-EX quality

......when it comes to Rolling Stones in 1978 - a "live compilation" is a real stupid idea. Anything less than a full show is a letdown.

Quote
R
Again, my goal is to present a "Wow, no sh*t?!?" listen to the casual fan, not the Stones equivalent of the entire Miles Davis "Bitches Brew" sessions, for example. For that reason I left the works-in-progress (i.e. the Pathe-Marconi stuff) out.

When all is said and done, the goal is not to teach history but rather create an ass-kicking listen. We're talking the Rolling Stones after all.

That is an interesting point and a worthwhile way to go. As much as I would have liked mountains of jams and fragments in the case of Exile, I thought that the idea of cooking up a secondary album that in effect looked back at--and commented on--the 1972 record, had a lot of merit and was (is) very enjoyable and even poignant. It's like a Glimmer love letter to a certain youthful, crazy version of the band.

I see the idea of a two-disc Some Girls a bit differently. I tend to think the concert material deserves its own release and crowds out valuable covers and experiments and, yes, rarities related to the studio album. And I think that there's a lot of highly accessible and listenable outtake material that enhances and flatters the original for almost any listener.

But of course your project is terrific, right down to the design. And I agree wholeheartedly with your sense of "Love In Vain" as being especially beautiful and significant when set amid the then-new Some Girls songs.

Quote
Rockman
As a designer, how would you package it? I love the original artwork--how would you complement and extend the original visual signature of the album, while adding to the historical depth of the archival release?

.........eeeerrr maybe explicite nude shots of Lucille Ball and Raquel Welch on thee inner sleeeeve would rock things up a bit .........

Well, we just need a "Professor Rock" of starlet photo research. One would have to go aways back to find the requisite shots of Lucy--I mean, did they have photography back then? But oh, Raquel...

Unreleased songs - a bit to choose from, some better than other, but a bit more work and there could be a 10 songs CD with good quality.

Claudine
Broken Toe
Golden Caddy
Munich Hilton
Do You Get Enough?
Everlasting Is My Love
A Different Kind
Some People Tell Me
You Win Again
Brown Leaves
Never Let Her Go
Shame Shame Shame
I Need You
Fiji Jim
Petrol Gang
Disco Muzik
I Can't Help It (Love You Too Much)
Never Make You Cry
The Way She Held Me Tight (Misty Roads)
So Young
You Don't Have to Go
Do You Think I Really Care? (Yellow Cab)
It's a Lie
Not the Way to Go
No Spare Parts
Redeyes (When You're Gone)

Quote
Erik_Snow

The live versions on your selection, makes no sense, as they are......well they are stolen away from the concert they belong in. I'd rather see a COMPLETE Fort Worth 1978 DVD released officially....it'll make much more sense....
......when it comes to Rolling Stones in 1978 - a "live compilation" is a real stupid idea. Anything less than a full show is a letdown.

Stupid? Really? Entirely subjective but THIS is the discussion I wanted to have. Thank you.

I'd make room for "Hound Dog" & "Summertime Blues" but that's just me.

I would keep the original LP as it was released with the singles tracks at the end.

01. Miss You
02. When The Whip Comes Down
03. Just My Imagination (Running Away With Me)
04. Some Girls
05. Lies
06. Far Away Eyes
07. Respectable
08. Before They Make Me Run
09. Beast Of Burden
10. Shattered
11. Miss You (Disco Version)
12. Everything Is Turning To Gold (b-side)
13. Before They Make Me Run (Promo Remix)
14. Miss You (7" Edit)
15. Far Away Eyes (7" Edit)

quote ''As a designer, how would you package it? I love the original artwork--how would you complement and extend the original visual signature of the album, while adding to the historical depth of the archival release?''unquote

You could always put lipstick on a pig and substitube it for the missing sows.

Quote
kowalski
I would keep the original LP as it was released with the singles tracks at the end.

01. Miss You
02. When The Whip Comes Down
03. Just My Imagination (Running Away With Me)
04. Some Girls
05. Lies
06. Far Away Eyes
07. Respectable
08. Before They Make Me Run
09. Beast Of Burden
10. Shattered
11. Miss You (Disco Version)
12. Everything Is Turning To Gold (b-side)
13. Before They Make Me Run (Promo Remix)
14. Miss You (7" Edit)
15. Far Away Eyes (7" Edit)

Nope. The average listener would find it redundant. Each disc has to stand on its own.

Quote
Amused
nope, it's well 3/5 in sound quality, listenable but twice as muddy as Exile x)
I've got it on a bootleg "All Them Girls" in lossless, can upload if you wanna judge for yourself.

Surely you mean "All Them Women" ?

Munichhilton, yeah, sorry, my mistake x)
a very nice disc - "Love You Too Much" instrumental take is amazing, too! really groovy

I don't know what the hell I'm doing wrong but I can't get a JPEG of the back cover art to display here. Anyway, this is the song line-up I ended up with after tinkering a bit:

Disc One -
THE ORIGINAL RECORDINGS
1 Miss You (long version) 8:36
2 When the Whip Comes Down 4:20
3 Just My Imagination (Running Away with Me) 4:38
4 Some Girls 4:36
5 Lies 3:11
6 Far Away Eyes 4:24
7 Respectable 3:06
8 Before They Make Me Run 3:25
9 Beast of Burden 4:25
10 Shattered 3:48
11 Everything's Turning To Gold (Shattered b-side) 4:24

LIVE, SUMMER 1978
12 Let It Rock (Detroit, Michigan) 4:46
13 Lies (Detroit, Michigan) 4:46
14 When The Whip Comes Down (Detroit, Michigan) 4:25
15 Just My Imagination (Detroit, Michigan) 6:38
16 Beast of Burden (Lexington, Kentucky) 7:05

Track 1 from original 12" single. Tracks 2 through 10 from
Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs Original Master vinyl LP.
Track 11 from “Sucking in The Seventies” vinyl LP. Tracks 12
through 15 originally recorded for the King Biscuit Flower Hour.

Disc Two
THE ARTIFACTS
1 Miss You (longer 8-track tape version) 5:36
2 When the Whip Comes Down (unreleased acetate version) 4:20
3 Far Away Eyes (shorter 8-track tape version) 4:24
4 Respectable 4:58 (unreleased acetate version) 5:25
5 Before They Make Me Run (radio promo version) 3:25
6 Beast of Burden (longer 8-track tape version) 4:25
7 Shattered 3:48 (shorter 8-track tape version)

STUDIO ARTIFACTS
8 Claudine 3:08 (unreleased studio track)
9 Fiji Jim 4:02 (unreleased studio track)
10 Hang Fire 6:15 (unreleased studio track)

LIVE, SUMMER 1978
11 Shattered (Passaic, New Jersey) 6:38
12 Sweet Little Sixteen (Passaic, New Jersey) 3:36
13 Far Away Eyes (with Doug Kershaw, Fort Worth, Texas) 4:46
14 Miss You (Fort Worth, Texas) 8:25
15 Star, Star (Detroit, Michigan) 4:25

Tracks 1, 3, 6 & 7 remastered from 8-track tape. Tracks 2, 4, 8, 9 & 10 and 15 from
digital sources. Tracks 11 & 12 taken from East Coast radio broadcast released
in Fall 1978 as the bootleg 2LP set “Garden State '78” from whence these tracks came.
Tracks 13-15 originally recorded for the King Biscuit Flower Hour.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-19 20:38 by R.

I like your tracklist, R, even if it's surely not compiled the way, a "professional" release might be presented. But it contains many highlights from the King Biscuit tapes, some of the better sounding outtakes/work-in-progress versions and makes for a rather nice flow. Who wants to sift through all those outtakes and live recordings in one go anyway. I surely don't, considering for example the multitude of outtakes and versions on collections like the Girls, Pills and Powders set. I much prefer shorter, more concise comps like, say the Paris Outtakes oder More Fast Numbers over such releases.

The only little "downer" IMO is your inclusion of three versions of Miss You. I guess I'd drop one of those (my omission of choice would be the 8-track version).

Have fun with your private Deluxe Set!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-19 20:48 by Greenblues.

Quote
Erik_Snow


......when it comes to Rolling Stones in 1978 - a "live compilation" is a real stupid idea. Anything less than a full show is a letdown.

I like a live compulation of 1978. It may come down to a matter of tase. Do you like editing or r u a purist who wants it all? I like editing - "cut the crap" - as Keith says.

It would be nice to make a best of 1978 live and only put the best songs on, maybe a one CD mini concert. The problem is matching sound. Hadsome Girls is clear but a flat mix. Lacerated bootlegs (KBFH) have a great mix but the sound isn't as good and Passic 1978 doesn't fit with the rest soundwise but it has the best live Far Away Eyes. Although 1978 is a bad example of cutting songs since it was a great tour but why not have the best of 1978? The movie is great.

Quote
Rev. Robert W.
I'm very impressed with your know-how and creativity, but confused as to the choices.

Why use the long "Miss You" (which is fun, but arguably benefitted from the edit) before running through the original album? Especially when including another rare "Miss You?"

I'd pick the long Special Disco mix of Miss You too. It's the best one by far. Miss You did not benefit from edits. It's much better longer. It would be nice to have the Special Disco Mix combined with the 8 track and album edit for a complete Miss You with all verses and solos. It's also great to have vaious versions of Miss You to enjoy.