Martin Elliott – “The Rolling Stones Complete Recording Sessions 1962-2024”

4 June - 25 August, 12 September – 19 October 1979, EMI Pathe Marconi, Paris, France.
S0677. I Think I'm Going Mad (4.20) (817)
(a) No Sax (6.49)
(b) Alternative Take (5.47)
(c) RW on sax? (5.07)

11 November - 16 December 1982; June - July 1983 EMI, Pathe Marconi Studios, Paris, France; The Hit Factory, New York
S0677. I Think I'm Going Mad (4.20) (817)
(e) Alternative KR Vocal (14.57)

June - July 1983 The Hit Factory, New York, USA.
S0677. I Think I'm Going Mad (4.20) (817)

www.stonessessions.com

Wow, nice work exile!

Now if only I could get my hands on clear recordings of each track...

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woodyweaving
Wow, nice work exile!

Now if only I could get my hands on clear recordings of each track...

Thank you. The work has just begun. Your email is hidden.

I'm in the process of sorting all of my downloads and rips of "I Think I'm Going Mad." I want to get a clear understanding of each track.

It may take a little time to get the best-sounding version of each version of "I Think I'm Going Mad" but it'll get done.

I'm really into the mystery of "I Think I'm Going Mad." We have a great start from everyone who contributed to this thread.

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Rocky Dijon
I'm grateful for the detail. I'd like to think at some point, with all the intelligence on the band folks here can gather, we'll be able to determine who is playing saxophone and keyboards and then settle definitively on when the track was cut. Right now I'm leaning towards Mel Collins in 1978 with Nicky Hopkins in 1979 and the mixing/editing completed in 1981 and then remixed in 1983.

Why does everyone pick Mel Collins as the sax player?

I've listened to the recording with the early vocals, no sax, etc... I think this must be the first recording of this song. Then I wondered if more takes of the song were done the same day or the next day.

From what I've read, I learned Mel Collins was in the studio with the Stones for only two days. Then I wondered if "I Think I'm Going Mad" had been worked on before Mel Collins was in the studio and the song was ready for a sax overdub.

Was the first take of the song done in the ER sessions, then the sax and piano added later during the Undercover sessions?

It's too early for me to conclude if I will ever be able to conclude as to when each version of "I Think I'm Going Mad" was created.

I'm currently finding each group of songs (bootlegs) that has "I Think I'm Going Mad." The question I am seeking an answer to is was the early take of "I Think I'm Going Mad" grouped with other very early takes of the song. Was the next version of the song more developed with the sax and piano included? I'm trying to figure out which session each version of the song was created.

Mel Collins as it was written, was only with the Rolling Stones for two days in the studio. Was he there during the Emotional Rescue recordings?

I haven't had time to examine the timeline of each recording session and understand what songs were created during each session.

There is much great information and great observations from everyone, I'm thinking this mystery can be solved.

Quote
drewmaster


Below is another version. Listen to how beautiful the guitar licks are that start at 2:53 (and especially that gorgeous chord sequence at 3:13), and then Jagger's stunning delivery of the lyrics ... Keith, Ronnie, and Charlie right there behind him, everything clicking perfectly...





Drew

Is this 5.37 version of the song the next to last version of the song? Are the vocals and lyrics the same? Is the piano the same as the final release of "I Think I'm Going Mad?"

I'm thinking maybe this 5.37 version of the song is the same as the released version but edited and vocal overdubs removed. I'll have to put both versions in Audacity side-by-side.

It's not just how many versions of "I Think I'm Going Mad" exist, but more importantly, how different is each one? I just started this mystery-solving work.

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Lynd8
I was very excited to see this finally released on CD in the singles set but much to my chagrin they botched it up and it has some defective skip in the beginning of the song. I was told about replacement discs and they sent me one but it also had the skip! It's like an extra beat or something. This is the version...

[www.youtube.com]

""Think I'm Going Mad" [Single B-Side] (M. Jagger - K. Richards)
Recorded by "The Rolling Stones" in 1979, 1982 and 1983. Released as the B-Side single of "She Was Hot" in 1984." - Tesfu

I like the "See my shaking hands." It helps relate more of the emotion of despair.

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Rocky Dijon
So back to "Think I'm Going Mad," can we settle on who's playing keyboards and saxophone?

If it's Mac on keyboards, the track originates from Pathe-Marconi 1977-1978 or Compass Point 1979.
If it's Nicky on keyboards, it's from Pathe-Marconi 1979.
If it's Chuck on keyboards, it's an overdub from The Hit Factory 1983.



Possible considerations, Bill German reported that there was some more mixing of outtakes done during the UNDERCOVER sessions (he notes "Munich Hilton" was remixed). German then states that the decision was taken to feature no old material on the album. Nico Zentgraf notes the following:

821107A 7th November - 9th November: Boulogne Billancourt (near Paris), Pathé-Marconi Studios. MJ, KR and RW listen to leftovers from previous sessions and start work on the upcoming album ‘Undercover’.

Further when the track surfaced in early 1984 as a b-side, Bill German noted it was "recently" remixed by the band.

How many versions of the song do we have? We don't know if there are more takes of "I Think I'm Going Mad" in existence.

Does the first version we have of "I Think I'm Going Mad" with piano also have sax? Does the first version we have of the song with sax also have a piano? These are questions for investigation.

"I Think I'm Going Mad: Listed on the tape under the slightly different title Think I'm Going Mad. Yet another edit of an early version, which already has the saxophone in the intro but is still lacking the piano overdub. Several small changes in the first verse before the line, "All the highs and lows don't mean a thing to me, don't give a damn." - Foxes in the Boxes

My best guess, and it's only a guess as I haven't really done any research, I've only been gathering information and music, is the early vocal version of the song was cust in 1979. The sax and piano were overdubbed at a later session. Then I wonder if the later session was in 1979. I feel like a dog chasing my tail with these questions.

I think someone in our group should be able to determine if it's Nicky Hopkins on piano.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-07-23 18:11 by exilestones.

1979 22nd January - 12th February: Nassau, Bahamas, Compass Point Studios

I Think I’m Going Mad I (MJ/KR) -no sax, some falsetto vocals

I Think I’m Going Mad II (MJ/KR) -with sax in the intro and piano coming in late

I Think I’m Going Mad III (MJ/KR) -with sax in intro and piano coming in early

I Think I’m Going Mad IV (MJ/KR) -shorter, with sax and piano coming in late


So it's still a work in progress and wasn't worked on again for ER, SITS or TY.

1982 they record it again.

I Think I’m Going Mad V (MJ/KR) -long jam with KR on vocals, Jim Barber
on bass


1983 April: Nassau, Bahamas, Compass Point Studios apparently they record it again, which is, according to this, the officially released version for the 7" and 12" versions.


But...

1984
30th January:

7“ single (Rolling Stones Records RSR 114). Producers: The Glimmer Twins
& Chris Kimsey.
A: She Was Hot (MJ/KR)
B: I Think I’m Going Mad (MJ/KR) -previously unreleased
Line-up ‘She Was Hot’: see 831107A.
Line-up ‘I Think I’m Going Mad’: MJ (voc, p)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/RW (pedal steel)/
BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Mel Collins (sax)



THE ROLLING STONES.
promotional 7“ single (Rolling Stones Records RSR DJ 114). Producers: The
Glimmer Twins & Chris Kimsey.
A: She Was Hot (MJ/KR) -edit
B: I Think I’m Going Mad (MJ/KR) -previously unreleased
Line-up ‘She Was Hot’: see 831107A.
Line-up ‘I Think I’m Going Mad’: MJ (voc, p)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/RW (pedal steel)/
BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Mel Collins (sax)


A check with discogs.com and...

Zero information on any of the She Was Hot releases regarding musicians.


Mel Collins recorded on Miss You in 1977. According to [www.nzentgraf.de] it's the only track he recorded on during the 1977 SOME GIRLS sessions.

Officially credited on SOME GIRLS.

So, the 1983 listing of

I Think I’m Going Mad VI (MJ/KR) -7" & 12" - version

does not mean David Sanborn played sax on it because, seeing that, apparently, take VI, as it's credited here (same credit as above, Compass) even though Mel Collins wasn't there... wasn't truly version 6 but is the sixth mixed version that was used for the single B-side edit and 12" B-side full length version.



David Sanborn played on Pretty Beat Up.

Why is LOVE YOU LIVE listed in Mel Collins' Selected discography?

And why is Mel Collins listed in "Bands by years" as saxophonist 1977–83 The Rolling Stones when it's documented Collins only recorded on 1977's take of Miss You and the 1979 take of Going Mad and Going Mad wasn't released until 1984?

And there is zero official credit for who plays sax on Going Mad on the 1984 B-side.

There's not much else to go by except listening - and the sax on Pretty Beat Up sounds like a completely different player than the sax on Miss You and Going Mad.

Nicky Hopkins isn't listed as an additional musician in the January Compass sessions but is listed in the January 1980 sessions, Chuck in 1983.

A little loose on the info for 1979 since no one is credited for keyboard or sax for the January Compass sessions - an error or is it a "given" that Ian McLagan was with them?

SOMEBODY WAS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-07-23 22:48 by GasLightStreet.

In lieu of a great Brian or Mick Taylor thread, you can always count on this song to pull me back in.

Thanks for the Mel Collins info. I wasn't aware he was only present two days. That would mean laying down tracks for "Miss You" and "Everything is Turning to Gold" only. I do not believe he attended any EMOTIONAL RESCUE sessions.

Bill German reported in early 1984 that the track they "recently" remixed and overdubbed for the B-side of "She Was Hot" was an EMOTIONAL RESCUE outtake. The long Keith lead vocal jam from the UNDERCOVER sessions was likely just that, revisiting a song for fun before deciding to get serious about releasing it and pulling the version that was, presumably, in the running for TATTOO YOU. That track, "Gangster's Moll," and "Munich Hilton" were part of a playback that Mick, Keith, Ronnie, and Chuck listened to in October 1982 at the start of sessions.

So who plays piano? Since the song appears to have been part of the Compass Point sessions in 1979, it's likely that Mac played keyboards at some point. However, all of Mac's work was redone by Nicky at the Pathe-Marconi sessions that Summer. This is why Mac isn't on TATTOO YOU or even the SOME GIRLS or TATTOO YOU Deluxe Editions. I'm sticking with Chuck for a piano overdub in either Fall 1982 or Spring 1983.

The saxophone is tricky. I don't think it's Ronnie as his playing is not that smooth. Listen to Ronnie with Bobby on "Let's Go Steady" from Krissy Kimsey's CD. Ronnie's sax is buried beneath Bobby in the mix on "All About You." I don't think it's Bobby on the released version of "Think I'm Going Mad." I think we have good reason to doubt it's Mel Collins from 1978 or Bobby from 1979. The saxophone on the 45, while nice, does not have the strength or assuredness Sonny Rollins would have brought to it. I do suspect it was a quick overdub by David Sanborn in 1983. The piano and sax were added to an edit of the 1979 track that I believe was prepared for TATTOO YOU which was then remixed following their overdubs.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

Great thread and, naturally, a great site.

And Gaslight, thank you for the kind words. "A smile relieves a heart that grieves" a wise man once said.

Damn, Rocky - I missed that but about Turning To Gold.

I looked again - Collins isn't listed on the 1977 sessions for EITTGold - no wonder I didn't see it - and forgot about it entirely!

I know there are liner note musician information errors with EOMS. Considering the state of their minds at the time and the amount of people around and the laidback chaos, it's amazing they remembered anything at all.

There's liner note musician information exclusions - TY being the most obvious - and Mick's excuses making sense at the time but he was gaslighting everyone - possibly - because, gee, Mick Taylor had to sue.

I think there were some exclusions with DIRTY WORK because of contract issues (that is so lame).

Why the exclusion with I Think I'm Going Mad even though in some places Mel Collins is officially credited - just not on the 7" or 12" editions that I can see. I agree it was very likely thought of for TATTOO YOU, seeing that there's FIVE tracks from the ER sessions on it - for once I saw that Mick did some work on tracks for SUCKING IN THE SEVENTIES I started to think, maybe he worked on Going Mad to be released for that (just like If I Was A Dancer).

Mick's vocal tracks from the ER sessions has bit of bendiness to it than what he did for the vocal overdubs specifically for TY, which are a bit more... cubicle and grunty (although towards the end of Going Mad there is a ridiculously snarly bit that's definitely annoying like BOSS and DIRTY WORK Jagger).

The backing vocal overdubs certainly have an ER essence to them. The backing vox on ER are much looser - and bigger sounding - than anything on SG.

This might be frustrating to some but that STATIC version sounds like it was mixed for TATTOO YOU. Because TY has a bit more ass to it than ER does (Clearmountain was extremely bullish on Bill's place in the mix with TY). It sounds like a Bob Clearmountain mix.

And!

To back that up... the TATTOO YOU font (just a few issues had that for the single and B-side), although that's a bit wonky to think that's really some kind of easter egg.

Sanborn's playing on Pretty Beat Up has a honkiness to it, there's some kind of straining of notes, almost like his reed was about to split into 8 pieces. Completely different sounding sax on Going Mad.

That could be on purpose, of course. Sounds to me that whatever they did to Going Mad in 1983 might've been something small for whatever reason.

Mac is playing electric piano on Miss You and Imagination. Just a guess - Mac isn't on TATTOO YOU because there's piano on it other than Mick's electric piano playing from 1975's Worried About You.

In other words, it sounds/looks like Mac was only there the week they recorded Miss You and Imagination, which explains why he's not on anything else from 1977.

The Going Mad B-side is edited seamlessly, of course; most of their edits are excellent.

EDITED LINES for 7" B-side

I think I'm going mad
And I think I'm going mad
Think I'm going mad
Think I'm going mad

Life goes by so fast
Time whirls by so fast
You drink my wine and soul
All the women come and go

Think I'm going mad
Think I'm going mad
Think I'm going crazy

All the highs and lows don't mean a thing to me
Don't give a damn

Think I'm going mad
Think I'm going mad

Every season that I pass
Think will be my last
I know my mind's afloat
Sometimes I feel so young and sometimes I feel so old

I think I'm going mad
I think I'm going mad
I think I'm going mad
I think I'm going ma... crazy
Think I'm going crazy

All the highs and lows don't mean a thing to me
Don't give a damn

Yeah, you want to see, you want to see all the kids all laugh
And they're thinking, they say that fool is crazy
They say that, they say that guy is insane
And I think, and I - and I think I'm going crazy
And I think, I think I'm going mad

And I think, and I think I'm going mad
Yeah, think I'm going crazy
Think, think I'm going crazy

All the highs and lows don't mean a thing to me
Don't give a damn

(Some low/quiet vocals that are not in the STATIC version, which leads to they did several edits because otherwise the mix - instrumentation - is 95% the same except for one odd keyboard bit and minor sax parts:

I think I'm going crazy
Think I'm going crazy)

You ought to see my shaking hands
You ought to see my shaking hands
I can't even drink or slurp a cup of coffee
I think I've lost my head
I think I should be sacrificed
Think I should be put away
Save your worrying babe
And I think, and I think I'm going mad
And I think I’m going mad
Ah, and I think I’m going mad
Think I'm going...
Think I'm going crazy
Think this world's insane
Think this world's insane
Think...

Well, Rocky, if talking about this song hauls you out of the lurking depths of iorr because not much else interests you enough to chime in (aside from what is personally going on in the real world) - I get why this song does that because it's !@#$%^&* QWERTY brilliant and I guess I better start getting my specific Stones interests together sooner than later to keep you much closer to the surface until the time here runs out (I can't remember if we're in contact in the real world somewhere - I think we were but past few years I don't know what day it is - but Dandelion - Bård - knows how to get ahold of me).

I had to go back a page to see what I said - it's the truth. What gets me is that somehow you, like Gazza, have like a secret hallway of Stones info that I have failed to find (I won't speak for others - perhaps they don't wish to be a 10 pound fish in a 5 pound pond). It can't piss me off because you open the door to let the info breeze fly out once in a while, and it's not as important as say, well, getting rain on a more regular basis than the past couple of years, but it sure does help the world go by a little faster when it bizarrely slows way down.

You know, that 1-415 PM time where the day says Uh huh, you just sit there and suffer with your time. Because why is it at 5 oclock it's suddenly 10 oclock? I can do nothing at work or nothing at home but...

That's life.

And, dammit, Keith is right - in my entire lifetime, even before I knew it, there was the sun, the moon and The Rolling Stones.

There's certainly worse options.

Nico lists Mel Collins for 1978 for Turning to Gold. I concluded (possibly incorrectly) that his saxophone for Miss You was an overdub during mixing since it's absent from the 12" single and replaced Ronnie's solo.

One correction on the lyrics (nice job there, you caught words I didn't quite get right), it's not "sacrificed," it's "I should be certified" as in certifiably mad.
I thought we were connected on Facebook but now I'm uncertain. We were. I'm notorious for fat fingering my phone and losing connections.

I don't have an inside track. I have a freakish memory for recalling (usually correctly) what I've read. I have had the pleasure of talking to some people who knew the band or knew people who did. Usually that works out. In one case, it was a small disaster, but you'll have that in life when you take entertainment too seriously.

Hey Rocky D......

I was wondering how long it would take for you to chime in on one of our favorite (and most mysterious) threads here.

I love when this one gets revived. Always some new info that comes about.

Welcome back ,

-Undervocer1

Thank you for the kind words. I never left. I just sometimes go read-only.

ya mean like a ghost-reader



ROCKMAN

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Nico lists Mel Collins for 1978 for Turning to Gold. I concluded (possibly incorrectly) that his saxophone for Miss You was an overdub during mixing since it's absent from the 12" single and replaced Ronnie's solo.

One correction on the lyrics (nice job there, you caught words I didn't quite get right), it's not "sacrificed," it's "I should be certified" as in certifiably mad.
I thought we were connected on Facebook but now I'm uncertain. We were. I'm notorious for fat fingering my phone and losing connections.

I don't have an inside track. I have a freakish memory for recalling (usually correctly) what I've read. I have had the pleasure of talking to some people who knew the band or knew people who did. Usually that works out. In one case, it was a small disaster, but you'll have that in life when you take entertainment too seriously.

I think I copied those lyrics from time... didn't pay attention to that - and certified makes way more sense.

Regarding Miss You with no sax - the Clearmountain edit version, which to my knowledge was for the UK only (just like the Plundered UK mix is different from the LP version, of which, ha ha, MY and PMS LP versions were the US single versions - so bizarre), has the sax edited out. He did the 12" remix/extended as well, which he left the sax out of too.

It makes more sense if Collins was there for two days to do overdubbing, and played on two songs, at the end of those sessions (remember, they recorded Start Me Up after Miss You, which, according to this article, wasn't recorded until 1978, which is wrong - [www.soundonsound.com], and Miss You took much longer to record than Start Me Up).

Oh. Right around Christmas in 2021 I had a bit of a meltdown and one of a few things that happened was I deleted EVERYONE except my wife's name (because of her memorial page) from FB and, well, didn't look at it again until spring or summer of 2022.

I don't know why I did that but when one is having, what's it called? Mental health issues? does anything actually make sense? Other than the obvious at that moment "making sense", I mean.

When I finally got back around to friending people I realized that of the 400 or whatever some FB friends I could only remember the names of about 20 people! As in, people I know on a day to day basis in town kinda thing. I think I'm up to 55 now.

Quote
Undercover1
Hey Rocky D......

I was wondering how long it would take for you to chime in on one of our favorite (and most mysterious) threads here.

I love when this one gets revived. Always some new info that comes about.

Welcome back ,

-Undervocer1

You just described an important part of joy in/on iorr.org!

Unfortunately it's dwindling. But... for a little bit yet whoever is still around. But no telling - it's one thing to bow out, not participate, it's a whole other thing for someone to die.

This online fanbase... it's not real life - but it can involve real life. But. It's not FaceBook. Or... yet we present how the who we are in ways and some more than others interact, get to know each others, with words - WORDS!!!! - and find something.

Some of us go beyond iorr.org and develop something else.

It's a beautiful thing: as connected as people are with whatever in the 2020s... people that feel alone have decided that: we can be connected.

Where I live, I'm isolated, my social life is basically .01% compared to what it was a year ago. I could change that.

I'm working on it.

But.

There's a lot to be said about connecting with people from around the world about... in this case, The Rolling Stones.

10 years ago... everything ends.

I've seen the pics of Mick with Devi in Paris... and it occurred to me - holy crap has he outlived...

At 79, Mick was/did a new album. At 80 toured.

Sounds like Mick.

These @#$%& are defying their age.

It's awesome.

One od my favourite tracks!

thank you...i enjoy these post on how a song came to be and all the outtakes
feel free to email me song or any new discovery
kenhoran61@gmail.com

I don't recall in the Spotify rankings shown somewhere recently where Going Mad is but...

It would be hugely hilarious if it became a top 40, top 30 or top 20 streaming plays for the Stones. It's better than half their catalogue!