Tell Me :
Talk
I can't hear that Substantial Damage is in open G?
That really is interesting, perhaps even Keith is getting a bit tired of that well worn territory. I guess if we count Brown Sugar as the real first use of that I-IV hammered riff it would be Mick's riff anyway.
why would we do that?
Because Mick wrote it? But thinking more about it, I guess you might consider Street Fighting Man the first use of that hammered I-IV lick.
honky tonk women too. and there's no reason to believe mick wrote that riff part of Brown Sugar, it's just believed he wrote the words and the melody. but yes i was referring to SFM.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-23 09:51 by Turner68.
Not technically a I-IV, but 19th Nervous intro has the grip. That's where it all started!
Route 66 has it, too.
That's where it started (on an album)
Yes!
I was more referring to the hammered I-IV thing in open tunings (E,D or G). It had a certain sound that is generally quite different from standard tuning inversions of the same change.
I read you, partner.
I've tried to document Keith's use of the technique on tunings other than open-G to absolve him of the charge that it's all a Ry Cooder ripoff.
lol. I believe anyone who is truly familiar with both Keith and Ry's use of the open G tuning could really accuse Keith of ripping much off besides the tuning itself. They quite obviously took it to very different places. It would have been great to be a fly on the wall when Ry and Keith initially talked open G though!
Here's hoping for another Stones record. Let's do it!
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
"Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 19, 2015 19:44
So as not to clutter up the main thread...
"Nothing on Me":
On the opening chord, to my ears, this is the first time KR has left the B string open while in open-G, to make a Cmaj7 (which he used to like to do in standard to end a song, like "Time Is On My Side")
"Something for Nothing":
Intro riff is a rocked-up adaptation of the "Slipping Away" intro.
Low E is the pedal tone; play 0-12-x-x-x-x and 0-11-x-x-x-x and 0-9-9-x-x-x-x and 0-7-x-x-x-x etc.
And, perish the thought, Waddy's fills remind me of Van Halen's "Top of the World." Which I'm a sucker for. [Or, gasp, Foo Fighters' "My Hero," which I am not a sucker for.]
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-20 00:17 by Mel Belli.
"Nothing on Me":
On the opening chord, to my ears, this is the first time KR has left the B string open while in open-G, to make a Cmaj7 (which he used to like to do in standard to end a song, like "Time Is On My Side")
"Something for Nothing":
Intro riff is a rocked-up adaptation of the "Slipping Away" intro.
Low E is the pedal tone; play 0-12-x-x-x-x and 0-11-x-x-x-x and 0-9-9-x-x-x-x and 0-7-x-x-x-x etc.
And, perish the thought, Waddy's fills remind me of Van Halen's "Top of the World." Which I'm a sucker for. [Or, gasp, Foo Fighters' "My Hero," which I am not a sucker for.]
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-20 00:17 by Mel Belli.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 19, 2015 20:23
...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-30 05:25 by Mel Belli.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-30 05:25 by Mel Belli.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 19, 2015 20:31
Also a minor miracle that KR wrang two distinct songs out of "Robbed Blind" and "Just a Gift."
Lots of E, G, C, and F.
The verse of Robbed Blind finds Keith playing a C and sticking his pinkie on the fourth string, third fret for a -sus F. And he does the same thing on the F chord for a -sus Bb note. And that F thing, in turn, is the money passage of the "Just a Gift" chorus.
Again, like I was saying in the main thread, Keith has a habit of playing and singing his melodies simultaneously — leaving a footprint, so to speak, of how he composed the melody.
I think that's something Mick, like most singers, tries to avoid. In my experience, singers *hate* when guitarists do the same thing with hands and voice.
Lots of E, G, C, and F.
The verse of Robbed Blind finds Keith playing a C and sticking his pinkie on the fourth string, third fret for a -sus F. And he does the same thing on the F chord for a -sus Bb note. And that F thing, in turn, is the money passage of the "Just a Gift" chorus.
Again, like I was saying in the main thread, Keith has a habit of playing and singing his melodies simultaneously — leaving a footprint, so to speak, of how he composed the melody.
I think that's something Mick, like most singers, tries to avoid. In my experience, singers *hate* when guitarists do the same thing with hands and voice.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 19, 2015 20:41
"Substanial Damage" is a motherf*cker of a tune. Jordan, positively thunderous.
Someone else beat me to it over at Rock Off, but Keith is playing a variation of the funky breakdown of "If You Can't Rock Me."
In open-G:
Slide half-step below into x-x-3-4-x-x, quickly hit the G root, and then hammer-on to a C x-x-5-5-x-x and then another half-step slide into x-x-3-4-x-x. That's the "call" and the "response" goes x-x-3-4-x-x > x-3-x-x-x-x > x-4-x-x-x-x > x-x-0-0-x-x. It's all done quickly and funkily, so I hope this description does it justice. Half-step-below approaches are key!
Then there's some slashing of these notes:
x-x-x-x-3-3 and x-x-x-x-3-5
Then the cool part: a C chord that Keith renders like so: x-5-5-0-3-0 and sliding back to a Bb.
Similar to the "Nothing on Me" Cmaj7, I've never heard Keith play that voicing in open-G ever before.
The old dog still flashes some new tricks!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-03 21:40 by Mel Belli.
Someone else beat me to it over at Rock Off, but Keith is playing a variation of the funky breakdown of "If You Can't Rock Me."
In open-G:
Slide half-step below into x-x-3-4-x-x, quickly hit the G root, and then hammer-on to a C x-x-5-5-x-x and then another half-step slide into x-x-3-4-x-x. That's the "call" and the "response" goes x-x-3-4-x-x > x-3-x-x-x-x > x-4-x-x-x-x > x-x-0-0-x-x. It's all done quickly and funkily, so I hope this description does it justice. Half-step-below approaches are key!
Then there's some slashing of these notes:
x-x-x-x-3-3 and x-x-x-x-3-5
Then the cool part: a C chord that Keith renders like so: x-5-5-0-3-0 and sliding back to a Bb.
Similar to the "Nothing on Me" Cmaj7, I've never heard Keith play that voicing in open-G ever before.
The old dog still flashes some new tricks!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-03 21:40 by Mel Belli.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
JJHMick
()
Date: August 19, 2015 20:43
This thread reminds me of the fact that Talk Is Cheap was the only sheet music book of a Stone solo album! Please continue to combine chords and lyrics and so on.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-19 20:44 by JJHMick.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-19 20:44 by JJHMick.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: August 19, 2015 20:49
Quote
Mel Belli
"Substanial Damage" is a motherf*cker of a tune. Jordan, positively thunderous.
Someone else beat me to it over at Rock Off, but Keith is playing a variation of the funky breakdown of "If You Can't Rock Me."
In open-G:
Slide half-step below into x-4-3, quickly hit the G root, and then hammer-on to a C x-x-5-5-x-x and then another half-step slide into x-x-3-4-x-x. It's all down quickly and funkily, so I hope this description does it justice.
Then there's some slashing of these notes:
x-x-x-x-3-3 and x-x-x-x-3-5
Then the cool part: a C chord that Keith renders like so: x-5-5-0-3-0 and sliding back to a Bb.
Similar to the "Nothing on Me" Cmaj7, I've never heard Keith play that voicing in open-G ever before.
The old dog still flashes some new tricks!
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 19, 2015 21:13
"Suspicious" is another cousin of "Robbed Blind" and "Just a Gift" (and all of them related in one way or another to "This Place Is Empty").
Kind of a cool intro for Keith, playing a G9 like so x-x-5-4-3-5, and then pulling off to a regular G in that position.
Verse is a nice, ascending melody played over Asus2 > Aminor > C > Cadd9 > F > G > C. Then a turnaround E chord.
Chorus is mainly Fmaj7 and G.
Some cool, swirly effects on guitars and keys here and throughout the album. Some sort of Leslie effect on "Amnesia," no?
Kind of a cool intro for Keith, playing a G9 like so x-x-5-4-3-5, and then pulling off to a regular G in that position.
Verse is a nice, ascending melody played over Asus2 > Aminor > C > Cadd9 > F > G > C. Then a turnaround E chord.
Chorus is mainly Fmaj7 and G.
Some cool, swirly effects on guitars and keys here and throughout the album. Some sort of Leslie effect on "Amnesia," no?
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 19, 2015 21:21
"Blues in the Morning" is a I-IV-V boogie in E.
Straightforward, energetic; sounds like it was cut live. I dig the faraway sound of Keith's voice.
Straightforward, energetic; sounds like it was cut live. I dig the faraway sound of Keith's voice.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 19, 2015 21:27
"Lover's Plea" is really beautiful. Slow Memphis soul, A > E7, with a F# > Bm > E > A.
Best part is an unexpected modulation to a Bb > C > F for the "This is my lover's plea to you" refrain. ... And then later another, brief modulation to Eb > Bb.
[update: first time through that B section is F#minor]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-23 19:18 by Mel Belli.
Best part is an unexpected modulation to a Bb > C > F for the "This is my lover's plea to you" refrain. ... And then later another, brief modulation to Eb > Bb.
[update: first time through that B section is F#minor]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-23 19:18 by Mel Belli.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 19, 2015 22:13
Also occurs to me that the E turnaround we hear on "Suspicious" is similar to that found on "The Worst."
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 21, 2015 17:43
Scratch above note on Amnesia. Jammed along with official single and it's in A major. Swampy feel and compromised audio had me hearing A minor.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 22, 2015 16:02
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 22, 2015 20:06
Quote
Mel Belli
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
I can't hear that Substantial Damage is in open G?
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 22, 2015 20:35
You could play it in standard, but I'm 100% sure it's open-G.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: August 22, 2015 20:42
Quote
Mel Belli
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
That really is interesting, perhaps even Keith is getting a bit tired of that well worn territory. I guess if we count Brown Sugar as the real first use of that I-IV hammered riff it would be Mick's riff anyway.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: August 23, 2015 06:53
Quote
NaturalustQuote
Mel Belli
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
That really is interesting, perhaps even Keith is getting a bit tired of that well worn territory. I guess if we count Brown Sugar as the real first use of that I-IV hammered riff it would be Mick's riff anyway.
why would we do that?
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: August 23, 2015 07:34
Quote
Turner68Quote
NaturalustQuote
Mel Belli
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
That really is interesting, perhaps even Keith is getting a bit tired of that well worn territory. I guess if we count Brown Sugar as the real first use of that I-IV hammered riff it would be Mick's riff anyway.
why would we do that?
Because Mick wrote it? But thinking more about it, I guess you might consider Street Fighting Man the first use of that hammered I-IV lick.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: August 23, 2015 09:50
Quote
NaturalustQuote
Turner68Quote
NaturalustQuote
Mel Belli
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
That really is interesting, perhaps even Keith is getting a bit tired of that well worn territory. I guess if we count Brown Sugar as the real first use of that I-IV hammered riff it would be Mick's riff anyway.
why would we do that?
Because Mick wrote it? But thinking more about it, I guess you might consider Street Fighting Man the first use of that hammered I-IV lick.
honky tonk women too. and there's no reason to believe mick wrote that riff part of Brown Sugar, it's just believed he wrote the words and the melody. but yes i was referring to SFM.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-23 09:51 by Turner68.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
maumau
()
Date: August 23, 2015 11:13
this is a gorgeous thread
thanks Mel
thanks Mel
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
open-g
()
Date: August 23, 2015 14:58
Good thread indeed, but way ahead of time.
should have a disclaimer like "don't open till September 18th" or so - heh.
I've only listened to snippets so far. ok Trouble, Amnesia and tomorrow a 3rd one.
should have a disclaimer like "don't open till September 18th" or so - heh.
I've only listened to snippets so far. ok Trouble, Amnesia and tomorrow a 3rd one.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 23, 2015 16:00
Quote
NaturalustQuote
Turner68Quote
NaturalustQuote
Mel Belli
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
That really is interesting, perhaps even Keith is getting a bit tired of that well worn territory. I guess if we count Brown Sugar as the real first use of that I-IV hammered riff it would be Mick's riff anyway.
why would we do that?
Because Mick wrote it? But thinking more about it, I guess you might consider Street Fighting Man the first use of that hammered I-IV lick.
Not technically a I-IV, but 19th Nervous intro has the grip. That's where it all started!
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 23, 2015 17:06
Quote
Mel BelliQuote
NaturalustQuote
Turner68Quote
NaturalustQuote
Mel Belli
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
That really is interesting, perhaps even Keith is getting a bit tired of that well worn territory. I guess if we count Brown Sugar as the real first use of that I-IV hammered riff it would be Mick's riff anyway.
why would we do that?
Because Mick wrote it? But thinking more about it, I guess you might consider Street Fighting Man the first use of that hammered I-IV lick.
Not technically a I-IV, but 19th Nervous intro has the grip. That's where it all started!
Route 66 has it, too.
That's where it started (on an album)
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 23, 2015 17:38
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Mel BelliQuote
NaturalustQuote
Turner68Quote
NaturalustQuote
Mel Belli
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
That really is interesting, perhaps even Keith is getting a bit tired of that well worn territory. I guess if we count Brown Sugar as the real first use of that I-IV hammered riff it would be Mick's riff anyway.
why would we do that?
Because Mick wrote it? But thinking more about it, I guess you might consider Street Fighting Man the first use of that hammered I-IV lick.
Not technically a I-IV, but 19th Nervous intro has the grip. That's where it all started!
Route 66 has it, too.
That's where it started (on an album)
Yes!
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: August 23, 2015 18:21
Quote
Mel BelliQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Mel BelliQuote
NaturalustQuote
Turner68Quote
NaturalustQuote
Mel Belli
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
That really is interesting, perhaps even Keith is getting a bit tired of that well worn territory. I guess if we count Brown Sugar as the real first use of that I-IV hammered riff it would be Mick's riff anyway.
why would we do that?
Because Mick wrote it? But thinking more about it, I guess you might consider Street Fighting Man the first use of that hammered I-IV lick.
Not technically a I-IV, but 19th Nervous intro has the grip. That's where it all started!
Route 66 has it, too.
That's where it started (on an album)
Yes!
I was more referring to the hammered I-IV thing in open tunings (E,D or G). It had a certain sound that is generally quite different from standard tuning inversions of the same change.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 23, 2015 18:33
Quote
NaturalustQuote
Mel BelliQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Mel BelliQuote
NaturalustQuote
Turner68Quote
NaturalustQuote
Mel Belli
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
That really is interesting, perhaps even Keith is getting a bit tired of that well worn territory. I guess if we count Brown Sugar as the real first use of that I-IV hammered riff it would be Mick's riff anyway.
why would we do that?
Because Mick wrote it? But thinking more about it, I guess you might consider Street Fighting Man the first use of that hammered I-IV lick.
Not technically a I-IV, but 19th Nervous intro has the grip. That's where it all started!
Route 66 has it, too.
That's where it started (on an album)
Yes!
I was more referring to the hammered I-IV thing in open tunings (E,D or G). It had a certain sound that is generally quite different from standard tuning inversions of the same change.
I read you, partner.
I've tried to document Keith's use of the technique on tunings other than open-G to absolve him of the charge that it's all a Ry Cooder ripoff.
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: August 23, 2015 19:31
Quote
Mel BelliQuote
NaturalustQuote
Mel BelliQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Mel BelliQuote
NaturalustQuote
Turner68Quote
NaturalustQuote
Mel Belli
Three songs in open-g (Trouble, Nothing On Me, Substantial Damage) and not a single I-IV move (a la Brown Sugar, Start Me Up, etc.) Interesting.
That really is interesting, perhaps even Keith is getting a bit tired of that well worn territory. I guess if we count Brown Sugar as the real first use of that I-IV hammered riff it would be Mick's riff anyway.
why would we do that?
Because Mick wrote it? But thinking more about it, I guess you might consider Street Fighting Man the first use of that hammered I-IV lick.
Not technically a I-IV, but 19th Nervous intro has the grip. That's where it all started!
Route 66 has it, too.
That's where it started (on an album)
Yes!
I was more referring to the hammered I-IV thing in open tunings (E,D or G). It had a certain sound that is generally quite different from standard tuning inversions of the same change.
I read you, partner.
I've tried to document Keith's use of the technique on tunings other than open-G to absolve him of the charge that it's all a Ry Cooder ripoff.
lol. I believe anyone who is truly familiar with both Keith and Ry's use of the open G tuning could really accuse Keith of ripping much off besides the tuning itself. They quite obviously took it to very different places. It would have been great to be a fly on the wall when Ry and Keith initially talked open G though!
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
whitem8
()
Date: August 24, 2015 02:11
Ok, excuse my ignorance. I checked iTunes, and how are folks hearing the album already? Only two songs are on iTunes . . .
Thanks for helping a brother out!
Thanks for helping a brother out!
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: August 24, 2015 02:34
Hey Mel Belli, this whole "guitar corner" is actually a good idea and I could see it working for a lot of the Stones records too!
Re: "Crosseyed Heart" guitar corner
Posted by:
Mel Belli
()
Date: August 24, 2015 02:50
Quote
Naturalust
Hey Mel Belli, this whole "guitar corner" is actually a good idea and I could see it working for a lot of the Stones records too!
Here's hoping for another Stones record. Let's do it!
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
alexander paul , GAFF , Halup , JumpingKentFlash , Justjon , keefmick , littlevillage , makemeburnthecandle , mariano , NICOS , ohmercy61 , Paddy , Sir Mick , Tonstone , Topi , TumblinDice76
Guests:
2238
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10