Quote
liddas

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
liddas
Others:

Rip this joint and Hips both have a capo at the 2nd fret (open G).
Let it loose 3rd fret (standard).
I remember that also Far away Eyes had a capo.
Some Girls is another open G/capoed at the 2nd fret.
I think I've seen Keith with a capo on out of control live.

C

RTJ is capo at fourt fret, FAY standard tuning without capo, Some Girls no capo, OOC indeed capo at 7th (8th on Brit guitars) fret.

Mathijs

RTJ starts in D and goes to A, so it should be second fret.
Far Away Eyes, its ages ago last time I tried it, but I can remember a capoed guitar. Will check tonight.
Some Girls. The studio version has some wierd high notes here and there (similar to those that Jagger playes in the opening riff of Stop Breaking Down) that imply the use of a capo, unless they are overdubs

C

You are right about RTJ: capo on second fret, it's in D. Live they played it in B, capo on fourth fret.

Mathijs

Quote
liddas

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
liddas
Others:

Rip this joint and Hips both have a capo at the 2nd fret (open G).
Let it loose 3rd fret (standard).
I remember that also Far away Eyes had a capo.
Some Girls is another open G/capoed at the 2nd fret.
I think I've seen Keith with a capo on out of control live.

C

RTJ is capo at fourt fret, FAY standard tuning without capo, Some Girls no capo, OOC indeed capo at 7th (8th on Brit guitars) fret.

Mathijs

RTJ starts in D and goes to A, so it should be second fret.
Far Away Eyes, its ages ago last time I tried it, but I can remember a capoed guitar. Will check tonight.
Some Girls. The studio version has some wierd high notes here and there (similar to those that Jagger playes in the opening riff of Stop Breaking Down) that imply the use of a capo, unless they are overdubs

C

Ok, I checked yesterday.

Some Girls: the very first sound that comes out from Jagger's guitar was what geve me the indication of a capoed guitar. Further, he never plays a G as a passing chord before the A (as he does live without a capo - see SAL for example) - he always goes directly from D to A.

Far away eyes: for me its a capo at the 3rd fret. Same as let it bleed: the F is played in a D shape. Then the C in the form of A and the Bflat in the form of G. It sounds correct to my ears!

C

On Far Away Eyes (which is in F), I've always thought they used a capo on the first fret (Reason: For Mick to be able to sing in a slightly higher pitch).







Looks like Keith is having the capo on even in the the SG-video!

Quote
Mathijs


It sure is, dear Majesty.

Mathijs

List tracks where this was done.

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
Mathijs


It sure is, dear Majesty.

Mathijs

List tracks where this was done.

How can I? 'Listen to that track, it's in standard concert tuning but actually the guitar's tuned down low and then a capo was added'. That's silly, isn't it.

But if I must name a track I would say: Good Times, Bad Times. Keith has commented two times at least on down tuning: how he used to down tune a whole step on his 12-strings to make them playable and how he used to down tune open E to open D and then add a capo to get back to A440. There is a fair amount of pictures of Keith with his early acoustics (Harmony, Guild, Gibson), all with capo's on the first and second fret.

Then there are various statements by other people, with the best one from Big Jim Sullivan. He stated that in the early to mid-60's, due to the lack of good quality guitars and thin strings 'we all' down tuned our guitars and used capo's. Maybe a track like 'We're Wasting Time' is an example. Jimmy Page has stated in Guitar Player that he would down tune in the early days, and Tony Zemaitis has stated in a early 90's interview that he was asked by players to build 'playable' 6 and 12-strings, as many acoustics available in England in the mid-60's where unplayable without down tuning.

Mathijs

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Looks like Keith is having the capo on even in the the SG-video!

I don't see a capo here.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs


How can I? 'Listen to that track, it's in standard concert tuning but actually the guitar's tuned down low and then a capo was added'. That's silly, isn't it.

But if I must name a track I would say: Good Times, Bad Times. Keith has commented two times at least on down tuning: how he used to down tune a whole step on his 12-strings to make them playable and how he used to down tune open E to open D and then add a capo to get back to A440. There is a fair amount of pictures of Keith with his early acoustics (Harmony, Guild, Gibson), all with capo's on the first and second fret.

Then there are various statements by other people, with the best one from Big Jim Sullivan. He stated that in the early to mid-60's, due to the lack of good quality guitars and thin strings 'we all' down tuned our guitars and used capo's. Maybe a track like 'We're Wasting Time' is an example. Jimmy Page has stated in Guitar Player that he would down tune in the early days, and Tony Zemaitis has stated in a early 90's interview that he was asked by players to build 'playable' 6 and 12-strings, as many acoustics available in England in the mid-60's where unplayable without down tuning.

Mathijs

12 strings and open tunings is different.

I don't see much if any creedence to your claim most people tuned their standard, but downtuned 6 string acoustics and added a capo at 2nd fret.

Plenty of pictures of The Beatles & The Stones playing acoustics without any capos. If there's a capo involved on a 6 string it's usually due to musical reasons ala Norwegian Wood or Pain't It Black etc.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-27 16:13 by His Majesty.

Mick's guitar with a capo on Don't Stop
Picture taken by myself in 2003 : Lick Tour, Hockenheim



[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]

Quote
His Majesty
12 strings and open tunings is different.

I don't see much if any creedence to your claim most people tuned their standard, but downtuned 6 string acoustics and added a capo at 2nd fret.

Plenty of pictures of The Beatles & The Stones playing acoustics without any capos. If there's a capo involved on a 6 string it's usually due to musical reasons ala Norwegian Wood or Pain't It Black etc.

It difficult to prove this. But, if you try it on an acoustic it actually works -you do get a somewhat louder, darker and more vibrant sound. So I can imagine, with the quotes in mind, and with those pictures of Richards, that it was fairly standard practice. And of course, to date many guitarists still down tune a semi tone.

Mathijs

The majority still tune their 6 string acoustics to standard and if the music doesn't call for it they don't use a capo, just like early - mid 60's Beatles, Stones, Hollies, Gerry and The Pacemakers etc etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-27 19:26 by His Majesty.

Saint of me capo 1st fret. Already mentioned?
I'm following the conversation about downtuned guitars and capos. Interesting. I never knew about the info Mathijs provided. Seems reasonable.
"..many acoustics available in England in the mid-60's where unplayable without down tuning" (Mathijs). Do you count Hummingbirds too? That would be a surprise. And one more: By unplayable do you mean, Mathjis, high action combined with high tension and "panzer" strings? Because if that's the case you must be right. I've got a cheap acoustic with those characteristics and if you downtune it and put a capo on you, can get some things done.

Old Harmony's, Guilds and Gibsons are far from unplayable in standard tuning without a capo. Sorry, aside from 12 strings and open tuned guitars it has very little to do with real world professional bands in the 60's or now.

If it were a fairly standard thing pictures of people playing acoustics without capos would be a rare thing indeed, but not surprisingly there are many photos of bands from early to mid 60's playing and recording without capos on their acoustics. Even when there are capos involved the sessions they relate to point towards them being used for tracks where a song used a capo without tuning down due to issues with tension etc.

About 13-14 years ago, I left a Shubb capo on the coffee table in my living room. One time when the woman I was dating at the time came over, she barked in a rather shrill tone, "what's that?" I told her it was a p-nis clamp. That shut her right up! I later informed her that it was in fact a capo.

Quote
His Majesty
Old Harmony's, Guilds and Gibsons are far from unplayable in standard tuning without a capo. Sorry, aside from 12 strings and open tuned guitars it has very little to do with real world professional bands in the 60's or now.

Have you ever played a 50's Harmony with a set of flatwound 014 strings, with the G and B wound?

Mathijs

014 flatwounds!! I've tried an electric with 010 flatwounds (G wound) and that was already tooooo much!

I owed two +- 1965 Hofner semi acoustic jazz guitars. Though the necks were quite thick, they played pretty well.
Sold them for peanuts about 20 years ago, still regret it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-28 12:52 by Amsterdamned.

Quote
Mathijs
Have you ever played a 50's Harmony with a set of flatwound 014 strings, with the G and B wound?

Mathijs

With and without flatwounds, not with wound b string.

There were lighter strings in 60's available so I don't see much point in asking.

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
Mathijs
Have you ever played a 50's Harmony with a set of flatwound 014 strings, with the G and B wound?

Mathijs

With and without flatwounds, not with wound b string.

There were lighter strings in 60's available so I don't see much point in asking.

I understood the first lighter strings available in Europe where Fender Bullits, which came in '65/'66, and then still you had to use a E string for a B string.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs
I understood the first lighter strings available in Europe where Fender Bullits, which came in '65/'66, and then still you had to use a E string for a B string.

Mathijs

James Howe & Co(Rotosound) amongst others were making sets with 11 on high E string before 1965. The thing of staggering them and adding a banjo string was happening before 1965 too, there's even an enquiry about it in a 1964 Beat Instrumental magazine.

Strings were avilable individually so people could make up their own custom sets with 11 probably being the lightest actual guitar string available until the arrival of Ernie Ball Slinky's circa 1966/67.