Much has been made on this board about Mick's current vocal styling.

Some like it, some despise it.

Good or bad, is there a point in the catalogue, where Mick crosses the Rubicon ("jumps the shark" - and don't say Streets of Love, just because I have that line in there), from the "Jumping Jack Flash-Mick", to the "Old Habits Die Hard-Mick"?

If you can't name a song, or album, at least the year this happened for the first time.

1989

Micks last great album was Steel Wheels... Something happened to him in Wandering Spirit - he is trying to sing like that ever since.

Yup, at some point Mick started doing Mick.
It was after Jumping Jack Flash for sure

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

It all started with the time of She's The Boss/Dancing In The Street/State Of Shock/Dirty Work.

So once again, Undercover is the cut off point. How funny.

For me, anyway.

yup.........the begging of the end for my studio love affair with the Stones...Steel Wheels.

Live.........it will never end but as for studio recordings, with some exceptions, he lost me at Steel Wheels.

Sorry MJ. I love your vocals from 1961-1988.After that, 60% dislike,40% is ok.

My wife wonders how I can call te Stones my favorite band when I don't care for the lead singers vocals. I told her that I have over 25 years of stuff I do love

This is just an opinion, but I think it began in the Dirty Work/She's The Boss era. That seems to be when he started trying to sound gritty and soulful, or whatever he happened to going for on a given song, instead of just letting it come out naturally, like he did previously.

It seems to have gotten progressively worse from there. The irony is, on record at least he still seems to be able to sing as well as he could 30 years ago, so it doesn't appear to come from a need to cover up a loss of range or ability, or anything like that.

As I recall, Mick had some issues with his nasal septum. After the surgery, his voice lost it's depth. It is more of a physical problem than an age related one.

can we not see glimpses of this earlier than 1985-86?

I'm gonna get pummeled for this, but what about, for example 'Let it Loose'?

micks vocals arent the best on undercover, but the album as a whole was pretty solid, so most tended to look the other way. dirty work is the first stones album where he really sounded bad.

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treaclefingers
can we not see glimpses of this earlier than 1985-86?

I'm gonna get pummeled for this, but what about, for example 'Let it Loose'?

best vocal of his entire career!

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Gazza

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treaclefingers
can we not see glimpses of this earlier than 1985-86?

I'm gonna get pummeled for this, but what about, for example 'Let it Loose'?

best vocal of his entire career!

+1

I don't think the cut-off point is that clear to define for me, but we're just talking studio voice hear, right? However, Micks voice is a favourite topic of mine. I find myself thinking about it likely as much as some of you think about Keith's sounds.

1964-1965 = Baby Mick, hit or miss. trying to sound like a black American half the time on so many covers - fails as much as succeeds.

1966-1967 = Beatle Mick, better. As Jones colours up the textures and Keith and Mick write some more interesting stuff, there's a lot of stuff (especially Between the Buttons) where Mick's singing with an English accent, not even his!

1968-1973 = Best Mick. Bar-setting excellence

1974-1976 = Identity Crisis Mick. Mick switches vocal styles, nearly on every track on IORR & B&B.

1978-1983 = Very Close Second Best Mick. Deeper than the Taylor Years, apart from some silliness on Emotional Rescue, I love the blend of maturity and swagger here, especially on Tattoo You!

1985-1987 = Pass.

1989-1991 = Safe, unthreatening Mick. like his haircut at the time. He was a bit too professional here, lol. The over-all lack of swagger in his voice hurt the material somewhat. DAMN IT it's hard not to bring up his live voices which are just as up & down!

1993-94 = Last Hurrah Mick. I love Wandering Spirit. I think it's the best post-Tatoo You release. As much as my friends and I enjoyed it, this is when it started getting pretty easy to have too much fun listening to Mick. ie - Mother of a Man - unintentiaonlly hilarious!!! Almost cartoony, but i like fun with my music so it was totally forgivable, actually added to the enjoyment!

1997-2001 = Starting to Show Cracks Mick. Flip the switch, trying to hit the second "baby I'm a ready to goooooo" = sounds like his age is catching up a bit. Still his voice held up longer than Bono whose voice started doing this when he was 40.

2002-2005 = Really Mick? The over afflection and chiselling out every consanant almost feels strange to listen to. This is the same person from Exile??

2010 Mick = Yeah, Alright, Come On, Let's Do This Mick. I'm just glad he's still with us, still singing, still writing. I like the new tracks, yeah, his over-pronouncing is here, but it bothers me way, WAY less since the songs are actually GOOD!

[thepowergoats.com]

Good post jamesfdouglas! Fun to read.

Let it Loose? Gazza is right on the money, one of Mick's most realized performances on vinyl. A pure sublime piece full of story telling, danger, and angst. Like a new gift being opened every time I listen to it. "I aint in love I anit in Luck!!! OHHH YEAH!" come what can beat that!

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treaclefingers
can we not see glimpses of this earlier than 1985-86?

I'm gonna get pummeled for this, but what about, for example 'Let it Loose'?

I won't pummel you but "Let It Loose" was just Mick singing soulfully at the top of his range, which caused some strain in lines like "maybe your friends think I'm just a stranger..." It was much later that he started using vocal mannerisms that I find hard to take. "Following The River" is a good example. Over-emoting an e-nun-ci-at-ting, rather than just...singing.

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jamesfdouglas

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Gazza

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treaclefingers
can we not see glimpses of this earlier than 1985-86?

I'm gonna get pummeled for this, but what about, for example 'Let it Loose'?

best vocal of his entire career!

+1

I don't think the cut-off point is that clear to define for me, but we're just talking studio voice hear, right? However, Micks voice is a favourite topic of mine. I find myself thinking about it likely as much as some of you think about Keith's sounds.

1964-1965 = Baby Mick, hit or miss. trying to sound like a black American half the time on so many covers - fails as much as succeeds.

1966-1967 = Beatle Mick, better. As Jones colours up the textures and Keith and Mick write some more interesting stuff, there's a lot of stuff (especially Between the Buttons) where Mick's singing with an English accent, not even his!

1968-1973 = Best Mick. Bar-setting excellence

1974-1976 = Identity Crisis Mick. Mick switches vocal styles, nearly on every track on IORR & B&B.

1978-1983 = Very Close Second Best Mick. Deeper than the Taylor Years, apart from some silliness on Emotional Rescue, I love the blend of maturity and swagger here, especially on Tattoo You!

1985-1987 = Pass.

1989-1991 = Safe, unthreatening Mick. like his haircut at the time. He was a bit too professional here, lol. The over-all lack of swagger in his voice hurt the material somewhat. DAMN IT it's hard not to bring up his live voices which are just as up & down!

1993-94 = Last Hurrah Mick. I love Wandering Spirit. I think it's the best post-Tatoo You release. As much as my friends and I enjoyed it, this is when it started getting pretty easy to have too much fun listening to Mick. ie - Mother of a Man - unintentiaonlly hilarious!!! Almost cartoony, but i like fun with my music so it was totally forgivable, actually added to the enjoyment!

1997-2001 = Starting to Show Cracks Mick. Flip the switch, trying to hit the second "baby I'm a ready to goooooo" = sounds like his age is catching up a bit. Still his voice held up longer than Bono whose voice started doing this when he was 40.

2002-2005 = Really Mick? The over afflection and chiselling out every consanant almost feels strange to listen to. This is the same person from Exile??

2010 Mick = Yeah, Alright, Come On, Let's Do This Mick. I'm just glad he's still with us, still singing, still writing. I like the new tracks, yeah, his over-pronouncing is here, but it bothers me way, WAY less since the songs are actually GOOD!

Good analysis...You left a couple of detours off along the way, like "gravelly-voiced Mick" from the '75-'76 tour. What the hell was he trying to do then?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-21 07:22 by 71Tele.

Somewhat close to what he did on the 1981-82 tour, which was the sound of Mick grunting while on the toilet.

Thankfully enough Mick has decided to stop that awful growling singing style that he developed way back then. Who the hell want to hear him sing in that style in song after song. Not me!

No, Sir Jagger is at his best when he really sings!
He is doing a great job on vocals even up to this date. The feel in the words he sings and the tone is still great!

For god sake the is in his late 60's, what do you expect from him, that he shall sing like in the late 60's?

I don't really understand all the nagging people in here, who are bashing everything the members in the band do or do not do.

I question your fanhood of the Stones!

Been Stoned since 1964 and still am!

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Fan Since 1964
Thankfully enough Mick has decided to stop that awful growling singing style that he developed way back then. Who the hell want to hear him sing in that style in song after song. Not me!

No, Sir Jagger is at his best when he really sings!
He is doing a great job on vocals even up to this date. The feel in the words he sings and the tone is still great!

For god sake the is in his late 60's, what do you expect from him, that he shall sing like in the late 60's?

I don't really understand all the nagging people in here, who are bashing everything the members in the band do or do not do.

I question your fanhood of the Stones!

Ah, the old "you're not a fan if you don't unquestionably like every single thing they do" argument...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-21 07:24 by 71Tele.

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71Tele

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Fan Since 1964
Thankfully enough Mick has decided to stop that awful growling singing style that he developed way back then. Who the hell want to hear him sing in that style in song after song. Not me!

No, Sir Jagger is at his best when he really sings!
He is doing a great job on vocals even up to this date. The feel in the words he sings and the tone is still great!

For god sake the is in his late 60's, what do you expect from him, that he shall sing like in the late 60's?

I don't really understand all the nagging people in here, who are bashing everything the members in the band do or do not do.

I question your fanhood of the Stones!

Ah, the old "you're not a fan if you don't unquestionably like every single thing they do" argument...

I can ofcourse question things that they have done, but it seems nowadays at this forum that everything they do is questioned to the limits and that bores me to death!

Been Stoned since 1964 and still am!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-21 07:38 by Fan Since 1964.

To me, Mick's voice sounds just fine in this day and age like it did back then. Yes, the overly loud mastering job of "A Bigger Bang" gave digital hiss to the voice, but that is not part of a singer's performance.

Agree 200% with Gazza on LET IT LOOSE. Could the voice changes be due to the hiring of his vocal coach?? I am glad he ditched the gravelly voice from the mid 70's....that was not good!

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skipstone
It all started with the time of She's The Boss/Dancing In The Street/State Of Shock/Dirty Work.

So once again, Undercover is the cut off point. How funny.

For me, anyway.

...I think you're right, here...

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jamesfdouglas

I don't think the cut-off point is that clear to define for me, but we're just talking studio voice hear, right? However, Micks voice is a favourite topic of mine. I find myself thinking about it likely as much as some of you think about Keith's sounds.

1964-1965 = Baby Mick, hit or miss. trying to sound like a black American half the time on so many covers - fails as much as succeeds.

1966-1967 = Beatle Mick, better. As Jones colours up the textures and Keith and Mick write some more interesting stuff, there's a lot of stuff (especially Between the Buttons) where Mick's singing with an English accent, not even his!

1968-1973 = Best Mick. Bar-setting excellence

1974-1976 = Identity Crisis Mick. Mick switches vocal styles, nearly on every track on IORR & B&B.

1978-1983 = Very Close Second Best Mick. Deeper than the Taylor Years, apart from some silliness on Emotional Rescue, I love the blend of maturity and swagger here, especially on Tattoo You!

1985-1987 = Pass.

1989-1991 = Safe, unthreatening Mick. like his haircut at the time. He was a bit too professional here, lol. The over-all lack of swagger in his voice hurt the material somewhat. DAMN IT it's hard not to bring up his live voices which are just as up & down!

1993-94 = Last Hurrah Mick. I love Wandering Spirit. I think it's the best post-Tatoo You release. As much as my friends and I enjoyed it, this is when it started getting pretty easy to have too much fun listening to Mick. ie - Mother of a Man - unintentiaonlly hilarious!!! Almost cartoony, but i like fun with my music so it was totally forgivable, actually added to the enjoyment!

1997-2001 = Starting to Show Cracks Mick. Flip the switch, trying to hit the second "baby I'm a ready to goooooo" = sounds like his age is catching up a bit. Still his voice held up longer than Bono whose voice started doing this when he was 40.

2002-2005 = Really Mick? The over afflection and chiselling out every consanant almost feels strange to listen to. This is the same person from Exile??

2010 Mick = Yeah, Alright, Come On, Let's Do This Mick. I'm just glad he's still with us, still singing, still writing. I like the new tracks, yeah, his over-pronouncing is here, but it bothers me way, WAY less since the songs are actually GOOD!

Interesting, James. Would you be so kind to do something comparable with Mick's live singing (a short qualification as for the tours)?

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71Tele

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jamesfdouglas

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Gazza

Quote
treaclefingers
can we not see glimpses of this earlier than 1985-86?

I'm gonna get pummeled for this, but what about, for example 'Let it Loose'?

best vocal of his entire career!

+1

I don't think the cut-off point is that clear to define for me, but we're just talking studio voice hear, right? However, Micks voice is a favourite topic of mine. I find myself thinking about it likely as much as some of you think about Keith's sounds.

1964-1965 = Baby Mick, hit or miss. trying to sound like a black American half the time on so many covers - fails as much as succeeds.

1966-1967 = Beatle Mick, better. As Jones colours up the textures and Keith and Mick write some more interesting stuff, there's a lot of stuff (especially Between the Buttons) where Mick's singing with an English accent, not even his!

1968-1973 = Best Mick. Bar-setting excellence

1974-1976 = Identity Crisis Mick. Mick switches vocal styles, nearly on every track on IORR & B&B.

1978-1983 = Very Close Second Best Mick. Deeper than the Taylor Years, apart from some silliness on Emotional Rescue, I love the blend of maturity and swagger here, especially on Tattoo You!

1985-1987 = Pass.

1989-1991 = Safe, unthreatening Mick. like his haircut at the time. He was a bit too professional here, lol. The over-all lack of swagger in his voice hurt the material somewhat. DAMN IT it's hard not to bring up his live voices which are just as up & down!

1993-94 = Last Hurrah Mick. I love Wandering Spirit. I think it's the best post-Tatoo You release. As much as my friends and I enjoyed it, this is when it started getting pretty easy to have too much fun listening to Mick. ie - Mother of a Man - unintentiaonlly hilarious!!! Almost cartoony, but i like fun with my music so it was totally forgivable, actually added to the enjoyment!

1997-2001 = Starting to Show Cracks Mick. Flip the switch, trying to hit the second "baby I'm a ready to goooooo" = sounds like his age is catching up a bit. Still his voice held up longer than Bono whose voice started doing this when he was 40.

2002-2005 = Really Mick? The over afflection and chiselling out every consanant almost feels strange to listen to. This is the same person from Exile??

2010 Mick = Yeah, Alright, Come On, Let's Do This Mick. I'm just glad he's still with us, still singing, still writing. I like the new tracks, yeah, his over-pronouncing is here, but it bothers me way, WAY less since the songs are actually GOOD!

Good analysis...You left a couple of detours off along the way, like "gravelly-voiced Mick" from the '75-'76 tour. What the hell was he trying to do then?

Nothing really. Just a ruined voice from too much coke!

My favourite Mick has always been the very young one from 64-66.

And the great classic Mick from 68-72/73!

But, - apart from much hubahuba he's still doing some very good vocals up to this day!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-21 14:55 by CousinC.

maybe his vocals crossed the rubric during Exile On Main St, but we can't hear it because he is turned down in the mix? boom-boom!

Love the era by era analysis jamesfdouglas...I also agree that you should do one for 'live mick'...but perhaps that's another thread.

While I'm not as enamoured with Mick's vocal on Let it Loose as a lot of people are, I don't dislike it and I must admit, I was 'baiting' a bit to see what the reaction might be. Why I even considered asking that question, is that like 71Tele said, he's 'singing soulfully at the top of his range', which is what I believe he's doing (maybe not as successfully), with 'Following the River'.

Following the River reminded me of Let it Loose for that reason in that it sounds a little strained.

Final point...I like both those vocals.

I suppose a post on his live vocals through the years doesn't derail the topic after all. Now I'm basing this primarily on boots, clips and live ablums (trying best to ignore so many heavy overdubs). This is a bit harder to do though, since the size of the venue, length of the actual tour and so many things socailly happening around them, the variables are endless - until the Vegas era of course, more on that later. So here we go...

1964-1968 = Like a Mick - most tv/film appearances during this era show Mick singing basically like he does on the record. Any time he's off, it's clearly due to excitement and youthful energy. This is when it was basically just the 5 of them (6 incl. Ian). In concerts (not tv shows) the band plays with the Geroge Lucas technique of 'faster, more intense'.

1969-1970 = More than Just a PA Mick. As we know, this was the first tour to cart around huge speakers, etc - so the band could actually hear themselves - which is SO IMPORTANT, and crucial for the singer! It is also where Mick started to finally change things up, and sing things differently than the recorded version. Take Sympathy for the Devil from Rock and Roll Circus - it's pretty damn close to the record. On Ya-Yas - the band changed the song, and Mick followed suit. It was the first time the sound of the band was locked, from start to finish, a differnt kind of tour, and Mick carrying it out - although I must say, he did stick to the whole 'macho black' voice a lot, and always seemed to speak with a southern American accent in between songs a lot!

1971 - Somebody get Mick some tea and honey please.

1972-1973 - Rip This Voice Mick. Pushing his voice to the LIMIT!!! When just listening to Mick on some of the well-known boots from the era - you can hear a LOT of gasping, lots of staccotta moments - especially during the 'Rip this Joint/JJ Flash/SFM encore. He's barely singing at all but flailing about so much like someone being electrocuted! His growls are definitely intact here, but by the time he gets to a slower number (ie, Sweet Virginia), there's still so many "Wwwwwwooooooo Hooooooo's" because he can barely contain himself - giving SO MUCH energy he's sweating so much it looks like he fell in a swimming pool.

1975-1976 = Funny Accent Time Mick. Okay, now Mick is Jamaican. Oh wait, now he's Cookie Monster. Oh wait, now he's... what did he just sing? What was he doing here? "Owwwbegga.... Owwwbegga.... Wannateyou wurpa-AHH YEAHHHHH" Oooooh, he's singing 'Heartbreaker'. Was he trying to out-sing himself from last time, to hide the gaping hole left by Taylor's absence? Was he trying to make Ronnie giggle? So many questions. One thing's for sure, this live era over-all is the one I've paid the least attention to.

1977 = Keith of course is Completely Straight Mick. Love the Toronto El Macombo stuff!!!

1978 = Mick Rules. Hound Dog... The upper register voice in the second verse of Honkey Tonk - the Jagger twang, the power... You know, the more I think about it, the more I find this the quinessential live Mick voice! Sure the SNL performance his voice was SHOT - but that was one gig. Wouldn't this tour make a killer live album! May not be the band's best tour - but Mick was ON FIRE!!!

1979 = never heard the Oshawa tapes. Like '77 though, it's cool that the only dates that year were in Canada!

1981 = Micka-Cola Mick - All of his power is coming from the throat since his nose was so obvioulsy plugged up. The manic running and jumping with his 'indoor skiing' habit made for a grunty voice that still has the range and energy, but the sound was way off - under enuncating everything (the opposite problem happens in the studio 20 years later). Plus the band playing everything so damned FAST... wow! Makes for a highly entertaining concert film, but man - his voice here is one of the reasons why I collect very little from this tour (much like 75-76).

1982 = Mick Discovers Kleenex. Much Better.

1985 = Man that Live Aid performance cooked! No tour here, just someone determined to kick a lot of ass! Only Freddy Mercury and Bono surpassed this amazing performance - the fire and fury in his voice is clear. Hard to imaging that 3 years later we get...

1988 = Wake Up Mick. I bought a boot for Japan '88. What the hell? He's barely there, sounds depressed! Mumbling through classics, I can't get though most tapes of this or the Australlian tour. Not worth a damn to this Mick-centric fan!

1989-1990 = CEO Mick. The Vegas era Mick started off with the biggest bang (ha ha). His modern voice starts here, singing in key for the most part. Notably absent though is his growl and swagger. This is an over-professional performer now. Fully immersed in the production value of the show, everything is the same, every night, even down to his arrow-shooting move in Tumbling Dice. He does his job here fine, even hitting those biting notes now and then (more so in Japan where travel wasn't interfering with their rest.

1993 = Mick's Last Hurrah. This is the last show where we ever hear that swaggery growl. I was so jacked seeing this before the VL tour, thinking Mick was gonna whip out his vintage voice again.

1994-1997 = Come on Mick - at least smile or something. Same voice as Steel Wheels, only sounding weirder each tour. He's really starting to take glaring shortcuts now; Rocks Off - eesh!! Moments of awesomeness get rarer. The new material in particular sounds weak and uninspired, save Out of Control. Stripped suffers all over the place, he's sounding creaky now. Actually the B2B tour for Mick was slightly better than VL.

2002-2003 = Motions Mick - a step down from the last tour, and now the band's followed him down. His range seems to be down to one octave now, only pulling out 'decent' vocal stuff in the clubs. This is where my collectiong boots ends. What's the point?

2005-2007 = Enough, Mick. I think it was around 2006 where Mick is starting to do stuff like singing in the wrong key, or barely even trying. I can't remember the boot, but I think it was in japan - he sings Gimmie Shelter in the wrong key. I felt a bit sick, is this really happening??? The decline had been slow, starting in '89, almost like he set up a 20-year plan to facilitate their aging. Go ahead, listen to Jumpin' Jack Flash on Shine a Light. Would you play that to a Stones newbie to show them how great Mick is? Me neither.

2010+ = Mick?? So what next? What are we to expect? I hope he stops the off-key-winded-sounding from the start voice and just sings next time.

[thepowergoats.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-22 03:05 by jamesfdouglas.

yep, no attitude from mick in the vegas era... if you have heard one vegas-era show, you have heard them all. agree that his vocals were best in 1978, with garden state being the ultimate mick show

Quote
treaclefingers
can we not see glimpses of this earlier than 1985-86?

I'm gonna get pummeled for this, but what about, for example 'Let it Loose'?

first glimpses are evident on parts of UC....check out the some of the mannered stylings on "feel on baby", for isntance...it started to grow into a bad habit he wasn't even aware of, i think, as the decade progressed. now it's a habit he's virtually locked into, it seems. so sad - at times he just makes it impossible to listen to...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-21 22:37 by StonesTod.