Why did Matt Clifford only play with the Stones for Steel wheels and the Urban jungle tours 1989-90? Sacked by Keith because he's Mick's buddy, or was it for money or was he one keybordest too many?

Probably the latter.

Keith (or any of them) cant unilaterally 'sack' anyone.

Two tours too much

Good thing : he left
Bad thing : Chuck Leavell didn't leave too...

Cuz his thin keyboard sound and percussion work didn't add much?

It was actually Chuck who suggested to Mick that, in '94, they could get by with just one keyboard. Keith was the decisive factor in getting rid of Clifford, but Mick was planning to replace him, according to Chuck's book:

"Matt Clifford was out of the equation this time. He and Keith were friendly enough but never really seemed to gel onstage, so it was inevitable that a change would occur. Mick had several other keyboard players on hold for auditions but I went to him and told him that I didn't think we needed another keyboard player. I wasn't trying to protect my own position; to me, it just didn't make sense. As I told Mick, we only really needed two keyboards on a select few songs a night.

" 'Do you really want to carry another guy around the world, pay his salary and expenses for a year for a few songs a night?'

"Mick looked at me rather astonished because he'd never considered the practicality of this.

" 'Why don't we get a horn section with a guy who can play keyboards?' I suggested. 'Somebody who can pop over and play when we need him, but the rest of the time can play horns.'

"Mick agreed."

Amazing that Mick enthusiastically embraced a suggestion for cutting costs!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-11 04:29 by Mel Belli.

Ivan Neville was supposed to be in the running for the VOODOO LOUNGE tour and even midway through the '94 dates nearly had an onstage try-out but blew it after partying too hard with Keith. A pity since Ivan is a phenomenal player, especially these days.

He has a tiny todger. DISCLAIMER: that's just what I heard

"" 'Do you really want to carry another guy around the world, pay his salary and expenses for a year for a few songs a night?'"

The original Mick reply : "I already do it with you Chuck!"

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Mel Belli
It was actually Chuck who suggested to Mick that, in '94, they could get by with just one keyboard. Keith was the decisive factor in getting rid of Clifford, but Mick was planning to replace him, according to Chuck's book:

"Matt Clifford was out of the equation this time. He and Keith were friendly enough but never really seemed to gel onstage, so it was inevitable that a change would occur. Mick had several other keyboard players on hold for auditions but I went to him and told him that I didn't think we needed another keyboard player. I wasn't trying to protect my own position; to me, it just didn't make sense. As I told Mick, we only really needed two keyboards on a select few songs a night.

" 'Do you really want to carry another guy around the world, pay his salary and expenses for a year for a few songs a night?'

"Mick looked at me rather astonished because he'd never considered the practicality of this.

" 'Why don't we get a horn section with a guy who can play keyboards?' I suggested. 'Somebody who can pop over and play when we need him, but the rest of the time can play horns.'

"Mick agreed."

Amazing that Mick enthusiastically embraced a suggestion for cutting costs!

Quote 'I wasnt trying to protect my position'... Yeah right... It just sounds like Chuck felt threatened by Matt and did his best to get rid of him. Why should he be concerned about the cost of having two (mediocre) keyboard players, its not as if he was paying for it!

Bring back Mac McLagen!

Balls. The '89-90 two-keyboard sound was crap. A keyboard playing the harmonica part on Miss You, for f**k's sake.

One keyboard is enough. Its not ever going to be McLagan either. Aside from him being persona non grata as far as Jagger is concerned, why he'd even want to work with them again after the shabby way he was treated in the 70s is beyond me, when he had to badger them to even get paid for a session fee.

I've read it all now. Lets blame Leavell for being responsible for getting rid of a musician whose contribution no one seems to have wanted or valued to begin with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-11 15:46 by Gazza.

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Gazza
Balls. The '89-90 two-keyboard sound was crap. A keyboard playing the harmonica part on Miss You, for f**k's sake.

One keyboard is enough. Its not ever going to be McLagan either. Aside from him being persona non grata as far as Jagger is concerned, why he'd even want to work with them again after the shabby way he was treated in the 70s is beyond me, when he had to badger them to even get paid for a session fee.

I've read it all now. Lets blame Leavell for being responsible for getting rid of a musician whose contribution no one seems to have wanted or valued to begin with.

Clifford's "guitar solo" after 2000 Light Years From Home still make me cringe.

When I asked Mac if he would tour,or play with the Stones again he said yes. Although I doubt he will get the chance.

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Gazza
Balls. The '89-90 two-keyboard sound was crap. A keyboard playing the harmonica part on Miss You, for f**k's sake.

One keyboard is enough. Its not ever going to be McLagan either. Aside from him being persona non grata as far as Jagger is concerned, why he'd even want to work with them again after the shabby way he was treated in the 70s is beyond me, when he had to badger them to even get paid for a session fee.

I've read it all now. Lets blame Leavell for being responsible for getting rid of a musician whose contribution no one seems to have wanted or valued to begin with.

I'm not praising or slating the double/single keyboard playing, merely commenting on Mell Bellis original Chuck Leavell Matt Clifford story, and how it reads to me.
And having Mac back is a personal thing, I know it will never happen, but having read his biography I get the impression he'd be back like a shot if they'd have him, regardless of how they've treated him in the past.

Only? Two tours was way too much.

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Gazza
Balls. The '89-90 two-keyboard sound was crap. A keyboard playing the harmonica part on Miss You, for f**k's sake.

And to top this crap: they played Just Wanna Make Love To You (Great!) and the harp came from Matt`s @#$%& keyboard !

Not Again! Two tours too much!

Tom

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Gazza
Balls. The '89-90 two-keyboard sound was crap. A keyboard playing the harmonica part on Miss You, for f**k's sake.

One keyboard is enough. Its not ever going to be McLagan either. Aside from him being persona non grata as far as Jagger is concerned, why he'd even want to work with them again after the shabby way he was treated in the 70s is beyond me, when he had to badger them to even get paid for a session fee.

Well, it worked for 2000 Light Years From Home. And concerning Miss You - the best live versions were from 1978, but after that, 1989/90 live version weren't too shabby either. All other tours, Miss You sucked considerably!

Why Mac would want to work again with them is pretty simple - it's the Stones. They can treat anybody like shit, but that does not stop people from crawling back to them on their knees if they get the chance - just because they're the Stones. Didn't someone once say that if you want to work for the Stones, you have to leave your pride at the door?

That arrangement of Miss You in 89-90 was a travesty. The song hasnt recovered since!

I knew there was another keyboard/harp atrocity on the Steel Wheels tour....'I Just wanna make love to you' it was, electricmud. Thanks.

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Gazza
That arrangement of Miss You in 89-90 was a travesty. The song hasnt recovered since!

I think Miss You recovered on the b-stage of the Bigger Bang Tour. The version from Glasgow 2006 comes to my mind. Stripped down, grooving and I love the hammond organ. All in all best since 1981/82.

Tom

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electricmud
I think Miss You recovered on the b-stage of the Bigger Bang Tour.

It also worked really well in a stripped down b-stage version at Giants Stadium in 2002.

I was at both those shows oddly enough - Giants 2002 and Glasgow '06.

From what I recall, the song was quite good on its few outings on the Licks tour.

Clifford was the "magic man". They could´nt have done "2000 light years" without him - right?

Good man. Wrong band! Some interesting sounds back then during Steel Wheels-Urban Jungle, though. Deeply missed on live renditions of She's A Rainbow - sounded flat, Chuckster could not fill the gap.

I never got why they would want a second keyboardist. I prefer them with a more stripped-down sound, but maybe the fuller sound of an extra keyboard and horns and Blondie and 2 other backup singers keeps pressure off Mick and Keith to really play/sing.

As for Miss You: horrible live song in every incarnation I have witnessed on every tour, including 78. I hope it is a warhorse that gets retired before they ever tour again.

Make that three (and counting) tours since Matt's been back on tour with the Stones since November 2012 as the "Musical Integrator" to rehearse the choir for YCAGWYW...His role has somewhat expanded since :
- Introduces the Stones before they come on stage "Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome the Rolling Stones" (since LA May 3rd, 2013, we figured that out when Sweet Summer Sun was shown on the BBC)
- Plays French horn on YCAGWY : starting in LA May 3rd, 2013
- Plays Keyboards on Can't Be Seen : starting in Oslo, May 26th, 2014

Pictures :

French horn at Hyde Park, July 13th, 2013

pic courtesy of me

Keyboards on Can't Be seen, Oslo May 26th, 2014

pic by latvianinexile

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-29 12:36 by gotdablouse.

.... no room in the get-away limo



ROCKMAN

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Gazza

From what I recall, the song was quite good on its few outings on the Licks tour.

Agree. I actually enjoyed it on the B-stage at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia. Since then there's been a lot of bad Miss You's. The gimmick of the moving stage on ABB didn't make it any better.

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dcba
Good thing : he left
Bad thing : Chuck Leavell didn't leave too...

lol

Two keyboards... That is soooo rock'n roll...

Chuck and Matt, I apologize...

Keyboards play what guitars don't... anymore.