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Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: Rank Stranger ()
Date: February 26, 2011 19:16

Quote
His Majesty
There is live footage of them with page on bass and of course there is the incomplete 2 tracks from Glasgow 1966 featuring page and beck on guitar.

Can you please tell me where I can find this?!

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: scottkeef ()
Date: February 26, 2011 19:32

Page may have been much more successful at it but he did seem to follow Beck's formula. From the experimentation thru the Yardbirds to his choice of line-up for Zep. Take a semi-known powerful singer, an accomplished musician on bass and a powerful drummer with a distinctive sound. Thats the Jeff Beck Group to a tee! Stewart,Wood, and Waller.....

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: February 26, 2011 20:04

Quote
lsbz
What's "pro" about sloppy playing?! Zeppelin are far from pro; rhythmically rather unstable, and that's important for a rock band. As a somewhat comparable band, Deep Purple were much more pro musicians.

Page must've been reasonably professional if he was Londons most in demand session guitarist circa 1964-66!

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: The Sicilian ()
Date: February 26, 2011 20:15

Quote
tatters
Quote
Brue
The definitive Yardbirds '66 Rave Up




This is from the film Blow Up, of course. "Why is Beck smashing his guitar?" you may ask. Because the director wanted the Who, but they were unavailable. He settled for the Yardbirds instead, and convinced a somewhat reluctant Beck to behave in a Townshend-like manner.

I remember seeing this movie a while ago now I'm reinterested in seeing it again. I'm going to have to find it to download.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: lsbz ()
Date: February 26, 2011 20:20

Quote
Big Al
Quote
lsbz
What's "pro" about sloppy playing?! Zeppelin are far from pro; rhythmically rather unstable, and that's important for a rock band. As a somewhat comparable band, Deep Purple were much more pro musicians.

Page must've been reasonably professional if he was Londons most in demand session guitarist circa 1964-66!

As I wrote before, he's a virtuous player. A handy second guitarist, and I resepct him for helping Nico with her single I'm Not Saying. But he's not a top guitarist; his attack and timing is too loose to my taste.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: dph ()
Date: February 27, 2011 06:19

Here's another Beck and Page video. Sound isn't very good though. Does give you an idea of how they compared to the Stones at the time.







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-27 06:21 by dph.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: February 27, 2011 06:41

Quote
dph
Here's another Beck and Page video. Sound isn't very good though. Does give you an idea of how they compared to the Stones at the time.



A man I knew
Died too young
And in the end
His song unsung
He touched my life
He touched my soul
And given time
He'd reach his goal

An original man, that I knew
An original man, right through

A sadness hidden
Behind his gaze
Before his time
In many ways
People copy, take, and steal
But my friend, he was for real

An original man, that I knew
An original man, right through

Time gives
And takes away
Everybody has their day
Even now
I see your face
You never left
Without a trace

An original man, that I knew
An original man, right through

-"An Original Man (A Song For Keith)" from the Yardbirds 2003 album, Birdland



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-27 20:16 by tatters.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: February 27, 2011 13:16

Quote
dph
Here's another Beck and Page video. Sound isn't very good though. Does give you an idea of how they compared to the Stones at the time.

Thank you for posting, but I disagree. Page was still the bassist at this point, yet to switch places with Chris Dreja. Unless we hear some audio and of the Beck/Page dual-lead set-up, I think it's hard to make the comparison. Evan studio-wise, it's difficult. Of the 3 tracks Page and Beck recorded together, only Happenings 10 Years Time Ago features Page on 6-string, with Page responsible for the main riff and Beck providing the solo.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: bustedtrousers ()
Date: February 27, 2011 14:40

Quote
lsbz
Quote
Big Al
Quote
lsbz
What's "pro" about sloppy playing?! Zeppelin are far from pro; rhythmically rather unstable, and that's important for a rock band. As a somewhat comparable band, Deep Purple were much more pro musicians.

Page must've been reasonably professional if he was Londons most in demand session guitarist circa 1964-66!

As I wrote before, he's a virtuous player. A handy second guitarist, and I resepct him for helping Nico with her single I'm Not Saying. But he's not a top guitarist; his attack and timing is too loose to my taste.

He's very uneven live. The whole thing of whether a Zeppelin show was great or not, I think, always depended on whether or not Page was on. Or how on he was. Take a look at the versions of Dazed and Confused, on the Zeppelin "DVD" extras, and you'll see how on, and off, he could be.

He was a genius in the studio, but when it came to recreating everything live, I think it was more than he could handle sometimes. I think that's why he played so well with the Black Crowes. He didn't have to do it all himself.

As far as his session work goes, I thought the line was that he was good at what he did, but what he was called on to do was usually pretty basic, and nowhere near the level of what guys like the Wrecking Crew in L.A did. Page was a good rhythm player, and could handle blues-based leads, which were prevalent in mid-60's London pop/rock, but he couldn't read music, and the London session guys in general didn't handle the variety of stuff like guys in L.A. and Nashville had to.

The guys in L.A. would do some simple 3-chord, throwaway pop song, then a jazz session, then a session with someone like Sinatra, and then a T.V. or film score, all in the same day. And the Nashville guys were in a league all their own, too.

I've always been under the impression that the London guys just didn't do that kind of variety, and therefore didn't need to be as skilled, and this is partly why Page was so successful. Most of what he was called on to do wasn't that complex.

In other words, being the top guy in London wasn't the same as being the top guy in L.A. or Nashville. This is in no way a knock on London. I just think they were two different worlds at that time, and I don't think Page would have cut it in places like L.A. or Nashville. He wasn't a Tommy Tedesco, or a Chet Atkins, by any means.

Anyone have any more solid insight on this?

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: lsbz ()
Date: February 27, 2011 14:53

Quote
bustedtrousers
He's very uneven live. The whole thing of whether a Zeppelin show was great or not, I think, always depended on whether or not Page was on. Or how on he was.

Led Zeppelin were unstable on record as well. They were structurally rhythmically unstable. It's only one aspect, but a very important one, and if you don't have your rhythm section right, you can hardly call yourself a good rock band.
I was objecting to calling them "pro", if you would compare them to another early hardrock band as Deep Purple. They were real musicians that were a couple of classes better than Led Zeppelin. In my opinion, Page and Blackmore is no comparisson; Zeppelin could not in a million years have played Child In Time or Fireball; they would have been largely inadequate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-27 14:54 by lsbz.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: February 27, 2011 15:04

Quote
bustedtrousers
As far as his session work goes, I thought the line was that he was good at what he did, but what he was called on to do was usually pretty basic, and nowhere near the level of what guys like the Wrecking Crew in L.A did. Page was a good rhythm player, and could handle blues-based leads, which were prevalent in mid-60's London pop/rock, but he couldn't read music, and the London session guys in general didn't handle the variety of stuff like guys in L.A. and Nashville had to.

The guys in L.A. would do some simple 3-chord, throwaway pop song, then a jazz session, then a session with someone like Sinatra, and then a T.V. or film score, all in the same day. And the Nashville guys were in a league all their own, too.

I've always been under the impression that the London guys just didn't do that kind of variety, and therefore didn't need to be as skilled, and this is partly why Page was so successful. Most of what he was called on to do wasn't that complex.

In other words, being the top guy in London wasn't the same as being the top guy in L.A. or Nashville. This is in no way a knock on London. I just think they were two different worlds at that time, and I don't think Page would have cut it in places like L.A. or Nashville. He wasn't a Tommy Tedesco, or a Chet Atkins, by any means.

Anyone have any more solid insight on this?

What utter rubbish. So, you’re basically dismissing the entire London music scene as second-rate in compared to the scene in LA? You are very much alone on this one, I think.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: February 27, 2011 15:27

Sorry to get a bit OT,

imo John'mclaughlin continued were Hendrix stopped,
A brief part of an interview with John:

BM: Didn't you and Jeff Beck play together in your early days in London before coming over to the States and joining Lifetime'

JM: No, never..

BM: You weren't session guys together.

JM: No, but you know who was' Somebody who I gave lessons to...what was his name' He played with Led Zeppelin...ah, Jimmy Page. Yeah, we used to do sessions together. And the bass player from Led Zeppelin, John Paul Jones...we were with Herbie Goins and the Nightimers, an r&b band doing James Brown and Bobby Blue Bland covers. That was a nice band.

If someone doesn't hear the delta blues here, well I'am sorry.





1967!


More up to date : John & Jeff: Amazing match!









Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-27 16:27 by Amsterdamned.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: February 27, 2011 16:37

Quote
Big Al
Quote
dph
Here's another Beck and Page video. Sound isn't very good though. Does give you an idea of how they compared to the Stones at the time.

Thank you for posting, but I disagree. Page was still the bassist at this point, yet to switch places with Chris Dreja. Unless we hear some audio and of the Beck/Page dual-lead set-up, I think it's hard to make the comparison. Evan studio-wise, it's difficult. Of the 3 tracks Page and Beck recorded together, only Happenings 10 Years Time Ago features Page on 6-string, with Page responsible for the main riff and Beck providing the solo.

Page also plays guitar on Stroll On and let's not forget even though it isn't The Yardbirds, Beck's Bolero.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-27 16:41 by His Majesty.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: February 27, 2011 18:16

Quote
His Majesty
Page also plays guitar on Stroll On and let's not forget even though it isn't The Yardbirds, Beck's Bolero.

I thought Page played bass on Stroll On? I guess it was only Psycho Daisies that features him on the 4-string, then.

Yes, I almost mentioned Beck's Bolero. It was recorded during their time together in the Yardbirds, so I guess we can count that one, too!

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: February 27, 2011 19:27

Quote
Big Al
Quote
His Majesty
Page also plays guitar on Stroll On and let's not forget even though it isn't The Yardbirds, Beck's Bolero.

I thought Page played bass on Stroll On? I guess it was only Psycho Daisies that features him on the 4-string, then.

Yes, I almost mentioned Beck's Bolero. It was recorded during their time together in the Yardbirds, so I guess we can count that one, too!

I asked Dreja and McCarty why the Beck's Bolero session tapes, recorded in 1966, aren't technically considered to be the property of the Yardbirds. They said, "because they didn't tell us about it".

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: lsbz ()
Date: February 27, 2011 22:29

Quote
tatters
Quote
Big Al
Quote
His Majesty
Page also plays guitar on Stroll On and let's not forget even though it isn't The Yardbirds, Beck's Bolero.

I thought Page played bass on Stroll On? I guess it was only Psycho Daisies that features him on the 4-string, then.

Yes, I almost mentioned Beck's Bolero. It was recorded during their time together in the Yardbirds, so I guess we can count that one, too!

I asked Dreja and McCarty why the Beck's Bolero session tapes, recorded in 1966, aren't technically considered to be the property of the Yardbirds. They said, "because they didn't tell us about it".

Does anyone know who plays the fast guitar fragment in Evil Hearted You at about 1:08?! I've always wondered. Sounds like it could be Page in a number of takes, but I think it's officially the Beck lineup.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: Brue ()
Date: February 27, 2011 22:50

Zeppelin's right around the corner




Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: Elmo ()
Date: February 27, 2011 23:02

Quote
rollmops
Althouhg Beck and Page were technically better guitar players than Keith and Brian, the audience was there to see the Stones. I guess the rolling stones certainly had the public with them so the yarbirds , as good as they were, weren't a threat to them. "Got live if you want it" is testament that the Stones rocked hard on stage,they invented punk music with that one. I wasn't there so I can't answer your question really but my guess is that Stones weren't outplayed by the yardbirds on that 1966 UK tour.
Rock and Roll,
Mops

I was there. I can tell you that it would have been impossible to hear much of what either band played because of the noise of the audience screaming. This is evidenced by the 'Got Live...' EP and similar recordings from that era, the noise made it impossible to tell if it was a good show or not so far as the playing was concerned. The girls screamed for the Yardbirds too because of the atmosphere that was created. I can tell you that the excitement was incredible, we had never seen anything like it before. Good memories!

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07 ()
Date: February 28, 2011 02:08

Quote
Amsterdamned


If someone doesn't hear the delta blues here, well I'am sorry.





1967!



I listened to that first track for two minutes and I didn't hear any hint of Delta blues.....it was a 10 minute track however so maybe I didn't listen long enough? Or maybe our definitions of "delta blues" aren't the same?

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: lsbz ()
Date: February 28, 2011 02:19

Quote
Elmo
I was there. I can tell you that it would have been impossible to hear much of what either band played because of the noise of the audience screaming. This is evidenced by the 'Got Live...' EP and similar recordings from that era, the noise made it impossible to tell if it was a good show or not so far as the playing was concerned.

Not at all impossible to tell from Got Live If You Want It; you just can't hear much detail. You can generally hear from far way and in a couple of seconds if bands are playing well or not.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: bustedtrousers ()
Date: February 28, 2011 03:56

Quote
Big Al
Quote
bustedtrousers
As far as his session work goes, I thought the line was that he was good at what he did, but what he was called on to do was usually pretty basic, and nowhere near the level of what guys like the Wrecking Crew in L.A did. Page was a good rhythm player, and could handle blues-based leads, which were prevalent in mid-60's London pop/rock, but he couldn't read music, and the London session guys in general didn't handle the variety of stuff like guys in L.A. and Nashville had to.

The guys in L.A. would do some simple 3-chord, throwaway pop song, then a jazz session, then a session with someone like Sinatra, and then a T.V. or film score, all in the same day. And the Nashville guys were in a league all their own, too.

I've always been under the impression that the London guys just didn't do that kind of variety, and therefore didn't need to be as skilled, and this is partly why Page was so successful. Most of what he was called on to do wasn't that complex.

In other words, being the top guy in London wasn't the same as being the top guy in L.A. or Nashville. This is in no way a knock on London. I just think they were two different worlds at that time, and I don't think Page would have cut it in places like L.A. or Nashville. He wasn't a Tommy Tedesco, or a Chet Atkins, by any means.

Anyone have any more solid insight on this?

What utter rubbish. So, you’re basically dismissing the entire London music scene as second-rate in compared to the scene in LA? You are very much alone on this one, I think.

NO ASS-HOLE, I AM NOT DISMISSING THE ENTIRE LONDON MUSIC SCENE AS SECOND RATE. DID YOU READ MY POST, DIDN'T YOU SEE MY COMMENT ON HOW I WAS NOT KNOCKING LONDON? JIMINY F_UCKING CHRISTMAS, DOES ANYONE ON HERE PAY ATTENTION AND HAVE READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS?

I knew some prick would take what I said the wrong way. I purposely put in the part about not knocking London and saying that they were two different worlds at that time. My impression is that the L.A. guys did everything, while London guys like Jimmy primarily did pop and rock and roll sessions, which were for the most part, fairly basic, when it comes to session work. To be a top session player, you have to be able to play ANYTHING at ANYTIME. From simple pop, like Herman's Hermits, to complex jazz, to film and music scores.

To my knowledge, Jimmy didn't do that. I seem to recall reading somewhere, maybe from Page himself, that what he did was pretty basic, mostly rhythm backing tracks. My impression of London compared to L.A. is that things were more specialized in London, than they were in L.A. As a result, in London, simple pop stuff was handled by one set of guys, jazz by another, BBC and film by another, and so on, with little crossover. Whereas in L.A., the "top" guys did it all. They were very schooled, all around players that could do anything and everything.

I don't think Jimmy, and Big Jim Sullivan, were on that level. I did not say that EVERYONE in London was like that. If you're too retarded to get that, I'm sorry.

I also asked for more SOLID INSIGHT on this, as I am not positive if my IMPRESSION is correct. I was hoping to get some genuine, knowledgeable feedback from some of the members here, especially the British ones, who would know.

I WASN'T looking for some limey prick like you to jump my shit because they are too ignorant to read something without taking it as an insult to their country.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: neptune ()
Date: February 28, 2011 04:09

I love Jeff Beck. Great musician. They were doing revolutionary stuff back in '66.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-28 04:09 by neptune.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: rocker1 ()
Date: February 28, 2011 04:35

Quote
bustedtrousers
Quote
Big Al
Quote
bustedtrousers
As far as his session work goes, I thought the line was that he was good at what he did, but what he was called on to do was usually pretty basic, and nowhere near the level of what guys like the Wrecking Crew in L.A did. Page was a good rhythm player, and could handle blues-based leads, which were prevalent in mid-60's London pop/rock, but he couldn't read music, and the London session guys in general didn't handle the variety of stuff like guys in L.A. and Nashville had to.

The guys in L.A. would do some simple 3-chord, throwaway pop song, then a jazz session, then a session with someone like Sinatra, and then a T.V. or film score, all in the same day. And the Nashville guys were in a league all their own, too.

I've always been under the impression that the London guys just didn't do that kind of variety, and therefore didn't need to be as skilled, and this is partly why Page was so successful. Most of what he was called on to do wasn't that complex.

In other words, being the top guy in London wasn't the same as being the top guy in L.A. or Nashville. This is in no way a knock on London. I just think they were two different worlds at that time, and I don't think Page would have cut it in places like L.A. or Nashville. He wasn't a Tommy Tedesco, or a Chet Atkins, by any means.

Anyone have any more solid insight on this?

What utter rubbish. So, you’re basically dismissing the entire London music scene as second-rate in compared to the scene in LA? You are very much alone on this one, I think.

NO ASS-HOLE, I AM NOT DISMISSING THE ENTIRE LONDON MUSIC SCENE AS SECOND RATE. DID YOU READ MY POST, DIDN'T YOU SEE MY COMMENT ON HOW I WAS NOT KNOCKING LONDON? JIMINY F_UCKING CHRISTMAS, DOES ANYONE ON HERE PAY ATTENTION AND HAVE READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS?

I knew some prick would take what I said the wrong way. I purposely put in the part about not knocking London and saying that they were two different worlds at that time. My impression is that the L.A. guys did everything, while London guys like Jimmy primarily did pop and rock and roll sessions, which were for the most part, fairly basic, when it comes to session work. To be a top session player, you have to be able to play ANYTHING at ANYTIME. From simple pop, like Herman's Hermits, to complex jazz, to film and music scores.

To my knowledge, Jimmy didn't do that. I seem to recall reading somewhere, maybe from Page himself, that what he did was pretty basic, mostly rhythm backing tracks. My impression of London compared to L.A. is that things were more specialized in London, than they were in L.A. As a result, in London, simple pop stuff was handled by one set of guys, jazz by another, BBC and film by another, and so on, with little crossover. Whereas in L.A., the "top" guys did it all. They were very schooled, all around players that could do anything and everything.

I don't think Jimmy, and Big Jim Sullivan, were on that level. I did not say that EVERYONE in London was like that. If you're too retarded to get that, I'm sorry.

I also asked for more SOLID INSIGHT on this, as I am not positive if my IMPRESSION is correct. I was hoping to get some genuine, knowledgeable feedback from some of the members here, especially the British ones, who would know.

I WASN'T looking for some limey prick like you to jump my shit because they are too ignorant to read something without taking it as an insult to their country.


I understand what you're saying. There's a technical proficiency abundant in the Nashville session players that is staggering, and it's been that way for ages. Your point about being able to adapt and play many different styles, flawlessy, with brilliant precise execution, and learn it more/less instantly, is something that is an entirely different skillset from blowing away rock audiences with passionate power chords, or somewhat shaky acoustic fingerpicking that a Chet Atkins was probably playing when he was, oh, 8 years old.

Jimmy Page is a rock guitar god, and rightly recognized as such. But I think he would've had a hard time getting hired as a session player in Nashville. Perhaps I'm very wrong and there's more to his 1965-era resume than I Can't Explain and other similar rock/blues sessions.

And this is certainly not a knock on London. I'm sure that city was/is filled with players possessing technical proficiency and talent by the bucketloads. Perhaps Vic Flick should jump in here and give us a thought on this? (He's a Londoner who probably would've fit in very well as a Nashville session player.)

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: February 28, 2011 04:50

Quote
lsbz


Does anyone know who plays the fast guitar fragment in Evil Hearted You at about 1:08?! I've always wondered. Sounds like it could be Page in a number of takes, but I think it's officially the Beck lineup.

That's Jeff, he does similar tings in a few of their tracks.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: bustedtrousers ()
Date: February 28, 2011 04:52

Quote
rocker1
Quote
bustedtrousers
Quote
Big Al
Quote
bustedtrousers
As far as his session work goes, I thought the line was that he was good at what he did, but what he was called on to do was usually pretty basic, and nowhere near the level of what guys like the Wrecking Crew in L.A did. Page was a good rhythm player, and could handle blues-based leads, which were prevalent in mid-60's London pop/rock, but he couldn't read music, and the London session guys in general didn't handle the variety of stuff like guys in L.A. and Nashville had to.

The guys in L.A. would do some simple 3-chord, throwaway pop song, then a jazz session, then a session with someone like Sinatra, and then a T.V. or film score, all in the same day. And the Nashville guys were in a league all their own, too.

I've always been under the impression that the London guys just didn't do that kind of variety, and therefore didn't need to be as skilled, and this is partly why Page was so successful. Most of what he was called on to do wasn't that complex.

In other words, being the top guy in London wasn't the same as being the top guy in L.A. or Nashville. This is in no way a knock on London. I just think they were two different worlds at that time, and I don't think Page would have cut it in places like L.A. or Nashville. He wasn't a Tommy Tedesco, or a Chet Atkins, by any means.

Anyone have any more solid insight on this?

What utter rubbish. So, you’re basically dismissing the entire London music scene as second-rate in compared to the scene in LA? You are very much alone on this one, I think.

NO ASS-HOLE, I AM NOT DISMISSING THE ENTIRE LONDON MUSIC SCENE AS SECOND RATE. DID YOU READ MY POST, DIDN'T YOU SEE MY COMMENT ON HOW I WAS NOT KNOCKING LONDON? JIMINY F_UCKING CHRISTMAS, DOES ANYONE ON HERE PAY ATTENTION AND HAVE READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS?

I knew some prick would take what I said the wrong way. I purposely put in the part about not knocking London and saying that they were two different worlds at that time. My impression is that the L.A. guys did everything, while London guys like Jimmy primarily did pop and rock and roll sessions, which were for the most part, fairly basic, when it comes to session work. To be a top session player, you have to be able to play ANYTHING at ANYTIME. From simple pop, like Herman's Hermits, to complex jazz, to film and music scores.

To my knowledge, Jimmy didn't do that. I seem to recall reading somewhere, maybe from Page himself, that what he did was pretty basic, mostly rhythm backing tracks. My impression of London compared to L.A. is that things were more specialized in London, than they were in L.A. As a result, in London, simple pop stuff was handled by one set of guys, jazz by another, BBC and film by another, and so on, with little crossover. Whereas in L.A., the "top" guys did it all. They were very schooled, all around players that could do anything and everything.

I don't think Jimmy, and Big Jim Sullivan, were on that level. I did not say that EVERYONE in London was like that. If you're too retarded to get that, I'm sorry.

I also asked for more SOLID INSIGHT on this, as I am not positive if my IMPRESSION is correct. I was hoping to get some genuine, knowledgeable feedback from some of the members here, especially the British ones, who would know.

I WASN'T looking for some limey prick like you to jump my shit because they are too ignorant to read something without taking it as an insult to their country.


I understand what you're saying. There's a technical proficiency abundant in the Nashville session players that is staggering, and it's been that way for ages. Your point about being able to adapt and play many different styles, flawlessy, with brilliant precise execution, and learn it more/less instantly, is something that is an entirely different skillset from blowing away rock audiences with passionate power chords, or somewhat shaky acoustic fingerpicking that a Chet Atkins was probably playing when he was, oh, 8 years old.

Jimmy Page is a rock guitar god, and rightly recognized as such. But I think he would've had a hard time getting hired as a session player in Nashville. Perhaps I'm very wrong and there's more to his 1965-era resume than I Can't Explain and other similar rock/blues sessions.

And this is certainly not a knock on London. I'm sure that city was/is filled with players possessing technical proficiency and talent by the bucketloads. Perhaps Vic Flick should jump in here and give us a thought on this? (He's a Londoner who probably would've fit in very well as a Nashville session player.)

Thank you so much for understanding and taking what I said as it was meant. All I was saying is that, from what I've read, Page did mostly simple pop sessions. Playing second guitar on I Can't Explain, and being the top, in demand guy for things like that, is different from being the top guy in L.A. and Nashville. From what I understand, the London studio scene didn't work the same way, and I wanted to know whether or not that was the case.

I was not trying to insult or belittle London in any way, and if I'm completely wrong, I have no problem admitting it. I feel bad for calling Big Al names, but I can't stand it when people take things the wrong way, when I have gone out of my way to make them clear. Especially when they are dicks about it, instead of being constructive.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: Keefan ()
Date: February 28, 2011 05:51

Page has said in an interview that since he didn't read music, most of his session work was playing rhythm, except for the occassional song on which he got to improvise a lead - but those were few when compared to the rhythym parts.

Page said that sometimes when he would work with another session guitarist who could read music (I can't remember who exactly, but maybe Vic Flick), that they'd go over the song with him before recording. (I read this info in a guitar mag interview with Page probably about 10 - 15 years ago).

I love the Yardbirds! From what I've read, Page played guitar along wiht Beck on a lot of the '66 tour, and they were the loudest and heaviest band around at the time.

They had great chops but the Stones had far better songs (don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the Yardbirds' tunes). 'Roger the Engineer' was the biggest guitar freak-out album in rock until Hendrix came along, and it still sounds great, and several songs on 'Little Games' sound like they could have been on Led Zeppelin's first album.


The Yardbirds LIVE AT THE BBC is one of my favorite cds, Jeff Beck's playing in particular is incredible throughout - great stuff. He was on fire.


P.S. The Yardbirds reunion cd 'Birddland' from 2003 is suprisingly good, I highly recommend it.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: tomk ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:28

Page is certainly more known for playing on pop sessions, but he also played on film scores (A Degree Of Murder for one), commercials, folk stuff, etc. He's even said so. He's said that he got out of the session business when it became more muzak-oriented, although I think that was an excuse to play live again. Hal Blaine, Carol Kaye, Glen Campbell, Jack Nitchze and those guys are more known, too, for playing on pop sessions, but they sure did their share on on films, TV, and commercials. The same with New York session guys, who kind of get left out regarding session work. I love the Nashville session players, but keep in mind Nashville wasn't in the scope of the TV-film business.

I've always liked Page's solo on Dave Berry's My Baby Left Me.
I doubt it's Page, but who is that in the corner playing guitar?




Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: lsbz ()
Date: February 28, 2011 12:13

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
lsbz


Does anyone know who plays the fast guitar fragment in Evil Hearted You at about 1:08?! I've always wondered. Sounds like it could be Page in a number of takes, but I think it's officially the Beck lineup.

That's Jeff, he does similar tings in a few of their tracks.

An amazing part, and a great single; thanks.

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: February 28, 2011 14:54

Quote
Tumblin_Dice_07
Quote
Amsterdamned


If someone doesn't hear the delta blues here, well I'am sorry.





1967!



I listened to that first track for two minutes and I didn't hear any hint of Delta blues.....it was a 10 minute track however so maybe I didn't listen long enough? Or maybe our definitions of "delta blues" aren't the same?


You listened long enough, but to the wrong item imo:
Delta blues is not only about scales, but feeling and timing are even more important.It's bigger than that so to speak..

Re: UK-tour 1966, Didn't Yardbirds play the shit out of the Stones?
Posted by: shortfatfanny ()
Date: February 28, 2011 16:32

Quote
Isbz
Zeppelin could not in a million years have played Child In Time or Fireball

To be honest,glad they never tried...


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