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His Majesty
There is live footage of them with page on bass and of course there is the incomplete 2 tracks from Glasgow 1966 featuring page and beck on guitar.
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lsbz
What's "pro" about sloppy playing?! Zeppelin are far from pro; rhythmically rather unstable, and that's important for a rock band. As a somewhat comparable band, Deep Purple were much more pro musicians.
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tattersQuote
Brue
The definitive Yardbirds '66 Rave Up
This is from the film Blow Up, of course. "Why is Beck smashing his guitar?" you may ask. Because the director wanted the Who, but they were unavailable. He settled for the Yardbirds instead, and convinced a somewhat reluctant Beck to behave in a Townshend-like manner.
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Big AlQuote
lsbz
What's "pro" about sloppy playing?! Zeppelin are far from pro; rhythmically rather unstable, and that's important for a rock band. As a somewhat comparable band, Deep Purple were much more pro musicians.
Page must've been reasonably professional if he was Londons most in demand session guitarist circa 1964-66!
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dph
Here's another Beck and Page video. Sound isn't very good though. Does give you an idea of how they compared to the Stones at the time.
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dph
Here's another Beck and Page video. Sound isn't very good though. Does give you an idea of how they compared to the Stones at the time.
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lsbzQuote
Big AlQuote
lsbz
What's "pro" about sloppy playing?! Zeppelin are far from pro; rhythmically rather unstable, and that's important for a rock band. As a somewhat comparable band, Deep Purple were much more pro musicians.
Page must've been reasonably professional if he was Londons most in demand session guitarist circa 1964-66!
As I wrote before, he's a virtuous player. A handy second guitarist, and I resepct him for helping Nico with her single I'm Not Saying. But he's not a top guitarist; his attack and timing is too loose to my taste.
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bustedtrousers
He's very uneven live. The whole thing of whether a Zeppelin show was great or not, I think, always depended on whether or not Page was on. Or how on he was.
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bustedtrousers
As far as his session work goes, I thought the line was that he was good at what he did, but what he was called on to do was usually pretty basic, and nowhere near the level of what guys like the Wrecking Crew in L.A did. Page was a good rhythm player, and could handle blues-based leads, which were prevalent in mid-60's London pop/rock, but he couldn't read music, and the London session guys in general didn't handle the variety of stuff like guys in L.A. and Nashville had to.
The guys in L.A. would do some simple 3-chord, throwaway pop song, then a jazz session, then a session with someone like Sinatra, and then a T.V. or film score, all in the same day. And the Nashville guys were in a league all their own, too.
I've always been under the impression that the London guys just didn't do that kind of variety, and therefore didn't need to be as skilled, and this is partly why Page was so successful. Most of what he was called on to do wasn't that complex.
In other words, being the top guy in London wasn't the same as being the top guy in L.A. or Nashville. This is in no way a knock on London. I just think they were two different worlds at that time, and I don't think Page would have cut it in places like L.A. or Nashville. He wasn't a Tommy Tedesco, or a Chet Atkins, by any means.
Anyone have any more solid insight on this?
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Big AlQuote
dph
Here's another Beck and Page video. Sound isn't very good though. Does give you an idea of how they compared to the Stones at the time.
Thank you for posting, but I disagree. Page was still the bassist at this point, yet to switch places with Chris Dreja. Unless we hear some audio and of the Beck/Page dual-lead set-up, I think it's hard to make the comparison. Evan studio-wise, it's difficult. Of the 3 tracks Page and Beck recorded together, only Happenings 10 Years Time Ago features Page on 6-string, with Page responsible for the main riff and Beck providing the solo.
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His Majesty
Page also plays guitar on Stroll On and let's not forget even though it isn't The Yardbirds, Beck's Bolero.
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Big AlQuote
His Majesty
Page also plays guitar on Stroll On and let's not forget even though it isn't The Yardbirds, Beck's Bolero.
I thought Page played bass on Stroll On? I guess it was only Psycho Daisies that features him on the 4-string, then.
Yes, I almost mentioned Beck's Bolero. It was recorded during their time together in the Yardbirds, so I guess we can count that one, too!
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His Majesty
Page also plays guitar on Stroll On and let's not forget even though it isn't The Yardbirds, Beck's Bolero.
I thought Page played bass on Stroll On? I guess it was only Psycho Daisies that features him on the 4-string, then.
Yes, I almost mentioned Beck's Bolero. It was recorded during their time together in the Yardbirds, so I guess we can count that one, too!
I asked Dreja and McCarty why the Beck's Bolero session tapes, recorded in 1966, aren't technically considered to be the property of the Yardbirds. They said, "because they didn't tell us about it".
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rollmops
Althouhg Beck and Page were technically better guitar players than Keith and Brian, the audience was there to see the Stones. I guess the rolling stones certainly had the public with them so the yarbirds , as good as they were, weren't a threat to them. "Got live if you want it" is testament that the Stones rocked hard on stage,they invented punk music with that one. I wasn't there so I can't answer your question really but my guess is that Stones weren't outplayed by the yardbirds on that 1966 UK tour.
Rock and Roll,
Mops
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Amsterdamned
If someone doesn't hear the delta blues here, well I'am sorry.
1967!
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Elmo
I was there. I can tell you that it would have been impossible to hear much of what either band played because of the noise of the audience screaming. This is evidenced by the 'Got Live...' EP and similar recordings from that era, the noise made it impossible to tell if it was a good show or not so far as the playing was concerned.
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bustedtrousers
As far as his session work goes, I thought the line was that he was good at what he did, but what he was called on to do was usually pretty basic, and nowhere near the level of what guys like the Wrecking Crew in L.A did. Page was a good rhythm player, and could handle blues-based leads, which were prevalent in mid-60's London pop/rock, but he couldn't read music, and the London session guys in general didn't handle the variety of stuff like guys in L.A. and Nashville had to.
The guys in L.A. would do some simple 3-chord, throwaway pop song, then a jazz session, then a session with someone like Sinatra, and then a T.V. or film score, all in the same day. And the Nashville guys were in a league all their own, too.
I've always been under the impression that the London guys just didn't do that kind of variety, and therefore didn't need to be as skilled, and this is partly why Page was so successful. Most of what he was called on to do wasn't that complex.
In other words, being the top guy in London wasn't the same as being the top guy in L.A. or Nashville. This is in no way a knock on London. I just think they were two different worlds at that time, and I don't think Page would have cut it in places like L.A. or Nashville. He wasn't a Tommy Tedesco, or a Chet Atkins, by any means.
Anyone have any more solid insight on this?
What utter rubbish. So, you’re basically dismissing the entire London music scene as second-rate in compared to the scene in LA? You are very much alone on this one, I think.
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bustedtrousersQuote
Big AlQuote
bustedtrousers
As far as his session work goes, I thought the line was that he was good at what he did, but what he was called on to do was usually pretty basic, and nowhere near the level of what guys like the Wrecking Crew in L.A did. Page was a good rhythm player, and could handle blues-based leads, which were prevalent in mid-60's London pop/rock, but he couldn't read music, and the London session guys in general didn't handle the variety of stuff like guys in L.A. and Nashville had to.
The guys in L.A. would do some simple 3-chord, throwaway pop song, then a jazz session, then a session with someone like Sinatra, and then a T.V. or film score, all in the same day. And the Nashville guys were in a league all their own, too.
I've always been under the impression that the London guys just didn't do that kind of variety, and therefore didn't need to be as skilled, and this is partly why Page was so successful. Most of what he was called on to do wasn't that complex.
In other words, being the top guy in London wasn't the same as being the top guy in L.A. or Nashville. This is in no way a knock on London. I just think they were two different worlds at that time, and I don't think Page would have cut it in places like L.A. or Nashville. He wasn't a Tommy Tedesco, or a Chet Atkins, by any means.
Anyone have any more solid insight on this?
What utter rubbish. So, you’re basically dismissing the entire London music scene as second-rate in compared to the scene in LA? You are very much alone on this one, I think.
NO ASS-HOLE, I AM NOT DISMISSING THE ENTIRE LONDON MUSIC SCENE AS SECOND RATE. DID YOU READ MY POST, DIDN'T YOU SEE MY COMMENT ON HOW I WAS NOT KNOCKING LONDON? JIMINY F_UCKING CHRISTMAS, DOES ANYONE ON HERE PAY ATTENTION AND HAVE READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS?
I knew some prick would take what I said the wrong way. I purposely put in the part about not knocking London and saying that they were two different worlds at that time. My impression is that the L.A. guys did everything, while London guys like Jimmy primarily did pop and rock and roll sessions, which were for the most part, fairly basic, when it comes to session work. To be a top session player, you have to be able to play ANYTHING at ANYTIME. From simple pop, like Herman's Hermits, to complex jazz, to film and music scores.
To my knowledge, Jimmy didn't do that. I seem to recall reading somewhere, maybe from Page himself, that what he did was pretty basic, mostly rhythm backing tracks. My impression of London compared to L.A. is that things were more specialized in London, than they were in L.A. As a result, in London, simple pop stuff was handled by one set of guys, jazz by another, BBC and film by another, and so on, with little crossover. Whereas in L.A., the "top" guys did it all. They were very schooled, all around players that could do anything and everything.
I don't think Jimmy, and Big Jim Sullivan, were on that level. I did not say that EVERYONE in London was like that. If you're too retarded to get that, I'm sorry.
I also asked for more SOLID INSIGHT on this, as I am not positive if my IMPRESSION is correct. I was hoping to get some genuine, knowledgeable feedback from some of the members here, especially the British ones, who would know.
I WASN'T looking for some limey prick like you to jump my shit because they are too ignorant to read something without taking it as an insult to their country.
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lsbz
Does anyone know who plays the fast guitar fragment in Evil Hearted You at about 1:08?! I've always wondered. Sounds like it could be Page in a number of takes, but I think it's officially the Beck lineup.
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rocker1Quote
bustedtrousersQuote
Big AlQuote
bustedtrousers
As far as his session work goes, I thought the line was that he was good at what he did, but what he was called on to do was usually pretty basic, and nowhere near the level of what guys like the Wrecking Crew in L.A did. Page was a good rhythm player, and could handle blues-based leads, which were prevalent in mid-60's London pop/rock, but he couldn't read music, and the London session guys in general didn't handle the variety of stuff like guys in L.A. and Nashville had to.
The guys in L.A. would do some simple 3-chord, throwaway pop song, then a jazz session, then a session with someone like Sinatra, and then a T.V. or film score, all in the same day. And the Nashville guys were in a league all their own, too.
I've always been under the impression that the London guys just didn't do that kind of variety, and therefore didn't need to be as skilled, and this is partly why Page was so successful. Most of what he was called on to do wasn't that complex.
In other words, being the top guy in London wasn't the same as being the top guy in L.A. or Nashville. This is in no way a knock on London. I just think they were two different worlds at that time, and I don't think Page would have cut it in places like L.A. or Nashville. He wasn't a Tommy Tedesco, or a Chet Atkins, by any means.
Anyone have any more solid insight on this?
What utter rubbish. So, you’re basically dismissing the entire London music scene as second-rate in compared to the scene in LA? You are very much alone on this one, I think.
NO ASS-HOLE, I AM NOT DISMISSING THE ENTIRE LONDON MUSIC SCENE AS SECOND RATE. DID YOU READ MY POST, DIDN'T YOU SEE MY COMMENT ON HOW I WAS NOT KNOCKING LONDON? JIMINY F_UCKING CHRISTMAS, DOES ANYONE ON HERE PAY ATTENTION AND HAVE READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS?
I knew some prick would take what I said the wrong way. I purposely put in the part about not knocking London and saying that they were two different worlds at that time. My impression is that the L.A. guys did everything, while London guys like Jimmy primarily did pop and rock and roll sessions, which were for the most part, fairly basic, when it comes to session work. To be a top session player, you have to be able to play ANYTHING at ANYTIME. From simple pop, like Herman's Hermits, to complex jazz, to film and music scores.
To my knowledge, Jimmy didn't do that. I seem to recall reading somewhere, maybe from Page himself, that what he did was pretty basic, mostly rhythm backing tracks. My impression of London compared to L.A. is that things were more specialized in London, than they were in L.A. As a result, in London, simple pop stuff was handled by one set of guys, jazz by another, BBC and film by another, and so on, with little crossover. Whereas in L.A., the "top" guys did it all. They were very schooled, all around players that could do anything and everything.
I don't think Jimmy, and Big Jim Sullivan, were on that level. I did not say that EVERYONE in London was like that. If you're too retarded to get that, I'm sorry.
I also asked for more SOLID INSIGHT on this, as I am not positive if my IMPRESSION is correct. I was hoping to get some genuine, knowledgeable feedback from some of the members here, especially the British ones, who would know.
I WASN'T looking for some limey prick like you to jump my shit because they are too ignorant to read something without taking it as an insult to their country.
I understand what you're saying. There's a technical proficiency abundant in the Nashville session players that is staggering, and it's been that way for ages. Your point about being able to adapt and play many different styles, flawlessy, with brilliant precise execution, and learn it more/less instantly, is something that is an entirely different skillset from blowing away rock audiences with passionate power chords, or somewhat shaky acoustic fingerpicking that a Chet Atkins was probably playing when he was, oh, 8 years old.
Jimmy Page is a rock guitar god, and rightly recognized as such. But I think he would've had a hard time getting hired as a session player in Nashville. Perhaps I'm very wrong and there's more to his 1965-era resume than I Can't Explain and other similar rock/blues sessions.
And this is certainly not a knock on London. I'm sure that city was/is filled with players possessing technical proficiency and talent by the bucketloads. Perhaps Vic Flick should jump in here and give us a thought on this? (He's a Londoner who probably would've fit in very well as a Nashville session player.)
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His MajestyQuote
lsbz
Does anyone know who plays the fast guitar fragment in Evil Hearted You at about 1:08?! I've always wondered. Sounds like it could be Page in a number of takes, but I think it's officially the Beck lineup.
That's Jeff, he does similar tings in a few of their tracks.
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Amsterdamned
If someone doesn't hear the delta blues here, well I'am sorry.
1967!
I listened to that first track for two minutes and I didn't hear any hint of Delta blues.....it was a 10 minute track however so maybe I didn't listen long enough? Or maybe our definitions of "delta blues" aren't the same?
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Isbz
Zeppelin could not in a million years have played Child In Time or Fireball