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Cartman is a wise man for all seasons!
I do love your term "alternate communiverse" a nice hindesight description. But as one of the reported 640,000 at Watkins Glenn I can confirm it had little to do with the music. Having seen The Allman Brothers and Greatfull Dead previous to the show I sat out the rainy Band set in a tent just right of the stage and heard everything very well, partied with a gent from Boston and a couple from Michigan. These were "happenings", the place to be. As for the guy with the fence, we had no tickets (125,000 sold, more folks than went to woodstock showed up without) thought we would try to sneek over the fence, ended up in wall to wall people until at one point we were standing on a flatted fence and determined we were in. But my favorite moment came as I sat under a tree eating some watermellon and picked up on a guy walking up to single or paired women and asking if they wanted to fornicate. I watched as he worked the croud and the range on negative responces he was getting. He spots me watching and works his way towards me, then he says "the way I've got it figured there has to be a quarter million women here, its only a process of elimination", then he propsitioned the next woman to pass.....like I said happenings!
As for tyhe show these things are gong shows, just seems the tight image protection the Stones have would be lost in the mahiem.
No, basically. There was nothing remotely dated about the Stones of '67.
Also, folks tend to forget that Woodstock only became a huge deal in retrospect. I had a friend who went, and she just told me she went to a festival in NY state where the music was great but it rained a lot, and that most of the scene was on the periphery in people's tents.
Flower Power
PEACE
You're probably right about these festivals being overrated. Personally, I wouldn't want to have attended any of them as I don't like huge crowds that much, but I love seeing the photos and watching the concert footage. I saw a documentary a couple of years ago about a few people who attended Woodstock (can't remember the name of it) and one salient memory was that of the smell of marijuana and vomit! It got kind of messy at the end with the rain, mud, litter..ugh. I have to say;however,that Santana's drummer was superb!! I would have liked to see them play firsthand.
I can't believe what I'm reading here jimbo...you say they couldn't write, be innovative or perform? They aren't on par with the Band, The Who or Hendrix?
I mean comparing apples to apples, I don't there was a better live band on the planet during those festival years in the 60s and 70s. I won't quibble with you on 'Vegas Stones' but really, that's when they've actually started doing some festivals.
Mostly they were overrated but I went to two good 'uns, the Bath Blues Festival in 1970 which was a totally shambles with everything running so late the bands had to play all night and we ended up having to leave in the middle of Jefferson Airplane who were headlining, but apart from that it was an amazing array of one fantastic band after another, from Canned Heat to Zeppelin. Mungo Jerry. Hot Tuna. Pink Floyd.
The other was some no-name festival in the middle of a field in Kent, where Woodstock's Wavy Gravy was dispensing the macrobiotic rice, the atmosphere was totally blissful all day, and then the Faces came out and tore the place down. And I was in time to catch my bus home.
somebody finally said these things!
Indeed. Monterey was the best of them all. Many musicians who were there (and at others) say so, even though someone embezelled the money. Going to the Monterey Fairgroaunds is kind of odd but fascinating. It's a small place, a rodeo arena.
Maybe the Kent festival can be found in this?
[www.ukrockfestivals.com]
Wow! I could not disagree more, They set the bar as far as performance and writing? next to the Beatles there has never been any act that has wrtitten as many great songs.
The Band? seriuosly ?? why do you think they had to have 300 guests to make the Last Waltz even the least bit intresting. The Band great performers pfft, even the Stones in 2013 are more exciting then they were then.
Palm Beach Festival shows that would not have been the case.
Talk about your favorite band.
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The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
LieB
()
Date: December 4, 2013 23:50
I was reading the (excellent) book "Across the Great Divide: The Band and America" by Barney Hoskyns recently. It made a big point about The Band being a bit introvert on stage and reluctant to take part in the hippie movement and their large festivals of the time, yet they still ended up playing on many of those gatherings, such as Woodstock, Isle of Wight, Festival Express and Watkins Glen.
It got me thinking about the Stones, that they were in fact almost the opposite. They missed out on so many of those famous events, like ...
... Monterey '67. Brian was there, famously, but the Stones were absent. I saw the Monterey movie(s) recently and I realised that perhaps the Stones of mid-67 would have sounded dated alongside Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and a very energetic The Who?
... eventually they played alongside the Who at the R'n'R Circus instead, and the Stones weren't satisfied with it.
... Woodstock '69. I believe Jagger was in Australia at that time. Brian had just died and Mick T was new in the fold. The Stones just weren't ready, I suppose. Besides, they had recently done the Hyde Park gig.
... so they did Altamont and it was a tragedy (despite some great music). I guess it could be one reason the Stones didn't show up on festivals in the coming years.
... Isle of Wight. Keith visited the '69 festival, but they didn't play then or at the more famous '70 festival. This festival produced some of my favourite live recordings and movies, like Miles Davis, Jethro Tull, The Band, The Who and Hendrix, and the Stones would have been a corker, riding high on their '69-'70 touring. There was a semi-riot at the festival, though, reminiscent of ugly moments the year before.
They did finally play at Knebworth in '76, a special moment in Stones history.
Funnily, the Stones seem to have become more eager to do festivals in later years. Hyde Park, Glastonbury, Isle of Wight '07, etc.
It got me thinking about the Stones, that they were in fact almost the opposite. They missed out on so many of those famous events, like ...
... Monterey '67. Brian was there, famously, but the Stones were absent. I saw the Monterey movie(s) recently and I realised that perhaps the Stones of mid-67 would have sounded dated alongside Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and a very energetic The Who?
... eventually they played alongside the Who at the R'n'R Circus instead, and the Stones weren't satisfied with it.
... Woodstock '69. I believe Jagger was in Australia at that time. Brian had just died and Mick T was new in the fold. The Stones just weren't ready, I suppose. Besides, they had recently done the Hyde Park gig.
... so they did Altamont and it was a tragedy (despite some great music). I guess it could be one reason the Stones didn't show up on festivals in the coming years.
... Isle of Wight. Keith visited the '69 festival, but they didn't play then or at the more famous '70 festival. This festival produced some of my favourite live recordings and movies, like Miles Davis, Jethro Tull, The Band, The Who and Hendrix, and the Stones would have been a corker, riding high on their '69-'70 touring. There was a semi-riot at the festival, though, reminiscent of ugly moments the year before.
They did finally play at Knebworth in '76, a special moment in Stones history.
Funnily, the Stones seem to have become more eager to do festivals in later years. Hyde Park, Glastonbury, Isle of Wight '07, etc.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
jamesfdouglas
()
Date: December 4, 2013 23:56
The Stones simply don't fit into the calibre of many of these bands listed. They're better off in their own 'artistic isolation' that they've always had around them. For sheer musical (performing/writing/innovativeness) skill they can't compare to The Band, The Who, Hendrix, etc. They need to surraound themselves with lesser artists to shine, or no other artists at all. They count on fans being starved for their relatively simple kind of music.
It's easier for them to play festivals now since their musicianship is very much a back-seat thing over their mere legend status. That's what keeps them going these days, smoke, mirrors, and the fact that they're THE STONES.
[thepowergoats.com]
It's easier for them to play festivals now since their musicianship is very much a back-seat thing over their mere legend status. That's what keeps them going these days, smoke, mirrors, and the fact that they're THE STONES.
[thepowergoats.com]
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: December 5, 2013 00:43
Those festivals are overrated--why would anyone want to immerse themselves in an alternate communiverse just to take in a set of rock music?
Perhaps the Woodstock movie helped make stars out of artists like Santana, Joe Cocker, and Ten Years After who otherwise might not have gotten such exposure to a general audience--but how are the performances "career defining"? The sound systems were awful, especially at Woodstock. The only reason Isle of Wight 1970 sounded so good was because The Who brought their own PA system which everyone else ended up using as well, as Townshend points out on the live Who album that was eventually released.
Gotta love that clip in the Isle of Wight movie where that bearded tripping hippie guy is getting busted for trying to storm the fences at the outer perimeter, who then gives them the excuse that "I was only painting the fence. Yeah, that's it! I was gonna paint the fence invisible." It must have been a rough come-down in the slammer.
Perhaps the Woodstock movie helped make stars out of artists like Santana, Joe Cocker, and Ten Years After who otherwise might not have gotten such exposure to a general audience--but how are the performances "career defining"? The sound systems were awful, especially at Woodstock. The only reason Isle of Wight 1970 sounded so good was because The Who brought their own PA system which everyone else ended up using as well, as Townshend points out on the live Who album that was eventually released.
Gotta love that clip in the Isle of Wight movie where that bearded tripping hippie guy is getting busted for trying to storm the fences at the outer perimeter, who then gives them the excuse that "I was only painting the fence. Yeah, that's it! I was gonna paint the fence invisible." It must have been a rough come-down in the slammer.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: December 5, 2013 01:11
Cartman?
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
crholmstrom
()
Date: December 5, 2013 01:44
Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Cartman?
Cartman is a wise man for all seasons!
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: December 5, 2013 01:54
They did play at earlier festivals like the Richmond Jazz and Blues festival.
By 1967 - summer 1969 there's too much crap going on internally and with the police etc for them to consider playing festivals that are out with their control.
Hyde Park wasn't really a festival, but a stones concert with a long line of support acts. Altamont being much the same.
They were out shined by younger bands at Palm Beach Festival, their only appearance at a real festival during those heady times.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-05 02:10 by His Majesty.
By 1967 - summer 1969 there's too much crap going on internally and with the police etc for them to consider playing festivals that are out with their control.
Hyde Park wasn't really a festival, but a stones concert with a long line of support acts. Altamont being much the same.
They were out shined by younger bands at Palm Beach Festival, their only appearance at a real festival during those heady times.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-05 02:10 by His Majesty.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
Des
()
Date: December 5, 2013 02:31
Quote
stonehearted
Those festivals are overrated--why would anyone want to immerse themselves in an alternate communiverse just to take in a set of rock music?
Perhaps the Woodstock movie helped make stars out of artists like Santana, Joe Cocker, and Ten Years After who otherwise might not have gotten such exposure to a general audience--but how are the performances "career defining"? The sound systems were awful, especially at Woodstock. The only reason Isle of Wight 1970 sounded so good was because The Who brought their own PA system which everyone else ended up using as well, as Townshend points out on the live Who album that was eventually released.
Gotta love that clip in the Isle of Wight movie where that bearded tripping hippie guy is getting busted for trying to storm the fences at the outer perimeter, who then gives them the excuse that "I was only painting the fence. Yeah, that's it! I was gonna paint the fence invisible." It must have been a rough come-down in the slammer.
I do love your term "alternate communiverse" a nice hindesight description. But as one of the reported 640,000 at Watkins Glenn I can confirm it had little to do with the music. Having seen The Allman Brothers and Greatfull Dead previous to the show I sat out the rainy Band set in a tent just right of the stage and heard everything very well, partied with a gent from Boston and a couple from Michigan. These were "happenings", the place to be. As for the guy with the fence, we had no tickets (125,000 sold, more folks than went to woodstock showed up without) thought we would try to sneek over the fence, ended up in wall to wall people until at one point we were standing on a flatted fence and determined we were in. But my favorite moment came as I sat under a tree eating some watermellon and picked up on a guy walking up to single or paired women and asking if they wanted to fornicate. I watched as he worked the croud and the range on negative responces he was getting. He spots me watching and works his way towards me, then he says "the way I've got it figured there has to be a quarter million women here, its only a process of elimination", then he propsitioned the next woman to pass.....like I said happenings!
As for tyhe show these things are gong shows, just seems the tight image protection the Stones have would be lost in the mahiem.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: December 5, 2013 02:56
Fascinating insights, Des. Great to hear those anecdotes from someone who was there. But, myself, having been born in 1966, festivals by the time I was first becoming aware of them tended to be topically political (No Nukes) or just commericalized and lame (US, Live Aid). I prefer just single concerts that I can leave from once the show is over.
But I'll think of you next time I view or listen to something from Isle of Wight 1970. I have the full Who, Doors, and Moody Blues sets on CD. Great stuff!
By the way, I wonder what happened to that guy who was trying to get lucky. Did he succeed? I also wonder what he's doing now, and who he may be doing it with.
But I'll think of you next time I view or listen to something from Isle of Wight 1970. I have the full Who, Doors, and Moody Blues sets on CD. Great stuff!
By the way, I wonder what happened to that guy who was trying to get lucky. Did he succeed? I also wonder what he's doing now, and who he may be doing it with.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: December 5, 2013 03:01
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: December 5, 2013 02:56
By the way, I wonder what happened to that guy who was trying to get lucky. Did he succeed? I also wonder what he's doing now, and who he may be doing it with
Yes he did and then he formed the company that makes and markets "Girls Gone wild" and became a millionaire.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-05 03:03 by Max'sKansasCity.
Date: December 5, 2013 02:56
By the way, I wonder what happened to that guy who was trying to get lucky. Did he succeed? I also wonder what he's doing now, and who he may be doing it with
Yes he did and then he formed the company that makes and markets "Girls Gone wild" and became a millionaire.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-05 03:03 by Max'sKansasCity.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: December 5, 2013 03:01
Quote
LieB
perhaps the Stones of mid-67 would have sounded dated alongside Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and a very energetic The Who?
No, basically. There was nothing remotely dated about the Stones of '67.
Also, folks tend to forget that Woodstock only became a huge deal in retrospect. I had a friend who went, and she just told me she went to a festival in NY state where the music was great but it rained a lot, and that most of the scene was on the periphery in people's tents.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: December 5, 2013 03:24
Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: December 5, 2013 02:56
By the way, I wonder what happened to that guy who was trying to get lucky. Did he succeed? I also wonder what he's doing now, and who he may be doing it with
Yes he did and then he formed the company that makes and markets "Girls Gone wild" and became a millionaire.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: December 5, 2013 03:25
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
StonesHippieRecluse
()
Date: December 5, 2013 10:26
Flower Power
PEACE
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
Bellajane
()
Date: December 5, 2013 15:26
Quote
stonehearted
Those festivals are overrated--why would anyone want to immerse themselves in an alternate communiverse just to take in a set of rock music?
Perhaps the Woodstock movie helped make stars out of artists like Santana, Joe Cocker, and Ten Years After who otherwise might not have gotten such exposure to a general audience--but how are the performances "career defining"? The sound systems were awful, especially at Woodstock. The only reason Isle of Wight 1970 sounded so good was because The Who brought their own PA system which everyone else ended up using as well, as Townshend points out on the live Who album that was eventually released.
Gotta love that clip in the Isle of Wight movie where that bearded tripping hippie guy is getting busted for trying to storm the fences at the outer perimeter, who then gives them the excuse that "I was only painting the fence. Yeah, that's it! I was gonna paint the fence invisible." It must have been a rough come-down in the slammer.
You're probably right about these festivals being overrated. Personally, I wouldn't want to have attended any of them as I don't like huge crowds that much, but I love seeing the photos and watching the concert footage. I saw a documentary a couple of years ago about a few people who attended Woodstock (can't remember the name of it) and one salient memory was that of the smell of marijuana and vomit! It got kind of messy at the end with the rain, mud, litter..ugh. I have to say;however,that Santana's drummer was superb!! I would have liked to see them play firsthand.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: December 5, 2013 16:36
Monterey seems to have been the best, right before things started getting too wanky.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 5, 2013 16:52
I would much rather have attended a show like this than the famous festivals, had I lived back then
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-06 10:14 by DandelionPowderman.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-06 10:14 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: December 5, 2013 17:04
Some pretty good festivals going - Bonnaroo and Wanee come to mind in our area (southern USA).
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
noughties
()
Date: December 5, 2013 17:57
That era sure was history when they started on their US tour of 1972 and joined the jet set.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
filstan
()
Date: December 5, 2013 20:16
I attended Goose Lake, Michigan festival in 1970. It was a fun weekend and there were many great bands that played. Check out the lineup. To think the Stones wouldn't be fantastic in that kind of environment strikes me as strange to think. The Faces tore it up and the crowd loved them just to name one example. The Stones musically were in top form during those years. Those big festivals simply required you could deal with crowds. It was a big party with excellent music. Only thing is once you got in it would have been rough getting out given the parking mess. The general vibe there though was very good from my perspective. Driving home wasn't fun....
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: December 6, 2013 03:21
Quote
jamesfdouglas
The Stones simply don't fit into the calibre of many of these bands listed. They're better off in their own 'artistic isolation' that they've always had around them. For sheer musical (performing/writing/innovativeness) skill they can't compare to The Band, The Who, Hendrix, etc. They need to surraound themselves with lesser artists to shine, or no other artists at all. They count on fans being starved for their relatively simple kind of music.
I can't believe what I'm reading here jimbo...you say they couldn't write, be innovative or perform? They aren't on par with the Band, The Who or Hendrix?
I mean comparing apples to apples, I don't there was a better live band on the planet during those festival years in the 60s and 70s. I won't quibble with you on 'Vegas Stones' but really, that's when they've actually started doing some festivals.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: December 6, 2013 06:39
Quote
stonehearted
Those festivals are overrated--why would anyone want to immerse themselves in an alternate communiverse just to take in a set of rock music?
Mostly they were overrated but I went to two good 'uns, the Bath Blues Festival in 1970 which was a totally shambles with everything running so late the bands had to play all night and we ended up having to leave in the middle of Jefferson Airplane who were headlining, but apart from that it was an amazing array of one fantastic band after another, from Canned Heat to Zeppelin. Mungo Jerry. Hot Tuna. Pink Floyd.
The other was some no-name festival in the middle of a field in Kent, where Woodstock's Wavy Gravy was dispensing the macrobiotic rice, the atmosphere was totally blissful all day, and then the Faces came out and tore the place down. And I was in time to catch my bus home.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
owlbynite
()
Date: December 6, 2013 08:39
Quote
jamesfdouglas
The Stones simply don't fit into the calibre of many of these bands listed. They're better off in their own 'artistic isolation' that they've always had around them. For sheer musical (performing/writing/innovativeness) skill they can't compare to The Band, The Who, Hendrix, etc. They need to surraound themselves with lesser artists to shine, or no other artists at all. They count on fans being starved for their relatively simple kind of music.
It's easier for them to play festivals now since their musicianship is very much a back-seat thing over their mere legend status. That's what keeps them going these days, smoke, mirrors, and the fact that they're THE STONES.
somebody finally said these things!
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
tomk
()
Date: December 6, 2013 08:53
Quote
His Majesty
Monterey seems to have been the best, right before things started getting too wanky.
Indeed. Monterey was the best of them all. Many musicians who were there (and at others) say so, even though someone embezelled the money. Going to the Monterey Fairgroaunds is kind of odd but fascinating. It's a small place, a rodeo arena.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: December 6, 2013 12:06
Quote
Aquamarine
Mostly they were overrated but I went to two good 'uns, the Bath Blues Festival in 1970 which was a totally shambles with everything running so late the bands had to play all night and we ended up having to leave in the middle of Jefferson Airplane who were headlining, but apart from that it was an amazing array of one fantastic band after another, from Canned Heat to Zeppelin. Mungo Jerry. Hot Tuna. Pink Floyd.
The other was some no-name festival in the middle of a field in Kent, where Woodstock's Wavy Gravy was dispensing the macrobiotic rice, the atmosphere was totally blissful all day, and then the Faces came out and tore the place down. And I was in time to catch my bus home.
Maybe the Kent festival can be found in this?
[www.ukrockfestivals.com]
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
Ket
()
Date: December 6, 2013 15:49
Quote
jamesfdouglas
The Stones simply don't fit into the calibre of many of these bands listed. They're better off in their own 'artistic isolation' that they've always had around them. For sheer musical (performing/writing/innovativeness) skill they can't compare to The Band, The Who, Hendrix, etc. They need to surraound themselves with lesser artists to shine, or no other artists at all. They count on fans being starved for their relatively simple kind of music.
Wow! I could not disagree more, They set the bar as far as performance and writing? next to the Beatles there has never been any act that has wrtitten as many great songs.
The Band? seriuosly ?? why do you think they had to have 300 guests to make the Last Waltz even the least bit intresting. The Band great performers pfft, even the Stones in 2013 are more exciting then they were then.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: December 6, 2013 16:00
That's a good link [the one HM posted]--I don't see it there though, unless it was (a field outside) Gillingham 1974, for which the link is broken.
I'd forgotten about Weeley in 1971, too, which was another really good one I went to. The Faces played there, too! I could have sworn T. Rex played that one, but they don't seem to be on the bill, unless they were added later. Must Check Diary. (I was at the Who Wembley show in '79, too, but I don't see how that counts as a festival.
)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-06 16:01 by Aquamarine.
I'd forgotten about Weeley in 1971, too, which was another really good one I went to. The Faces played there, too! I could have sworn T. Rex played that one, but they don't seem to be on the bill, unless they were added later. Must Check Diary. (I was at the Who Wembley show in '79, too, but I don't see how that counts as a festival.
)Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-06 16:01 by Aquamarine.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
withaheadfullofsnow
()
Date: December 6, 2013 16:49
I read Michael Lang's book and he talked about the Stones and Woodstock. He said the Stones were too big at the time and if booked, Woodstock would've been all about them. However, he did also say that he really wanted John Lennon. He saw Lennon as a leader of the generation, not just a musician.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: December 6, 2013 18:10
Quote
withaheadfullofsnow
I read Michael Lang's book and he talked about the Stones and Woodstock. He said the Stones were too big at the time and if booked, Woodstock would've been all about them.
Palm Beach Festival shows that would not have been the case.
Re: The Stones and festivals of the hippie era
Posted by:
rob51
()
Date: December 7, 2013 23:55
Very true mesfdouglas although I had to give them credit in 1981 for having J.Geils open for them. They blew the Stones right off the stage however so maybe that wasn't such a good idea? Eddie Money was properly overshadowed.
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