Quote
redsock

Quote
SwayStones
As in Under My Thumb , "the squirming dog who just had her day"
I am not sure of how I interpreted it since I am may be wrong with the translation but obviously ,calling a woman a dog is very despicable imo .
Plus I don't know if ,by " day" Jagger refered to women's periods - I had always thought that Jagger said "dates " instead of "day"

It is "day" and refers to the old saying: "Every dog has his day".

That saying dates back to at least 1545 and was used by Shakespeare!
[stuntdog.wordpress.com]

Thank you ,redsock !
Obviously I was completely on the wrong track ,due to my English understanding as to my tortured soul



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Quote
lsbz
Generally, if you can't see the irony in lyrics of bands like the Rolling Stones and the Velvet Underground, I think that you miss much of their intention. Then they become too heavy and you might take offense. They could be crossing lines from some women's point of view; I don't know, but the artistic mechanism of layers of dark and light will always stay the same.

I think now I get better what you meant by "irony" .
The so-called "misogynist lyrics " of some Stones'songs don't have to be taken on a literal meaning because Jagger don't mean what he sings in opposition for instance to some lyricsin Rap like " All what you need, bitch ,is to be @#$%& " because then the "singer" really means it .
Am I right ?


But then why Jagger,in an 2003 or 2005 interview said,when he was asked about the lyrics of Midnight Rambler and Stray Cat Blue ,something like "It was just me,I don't think it was a role"



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Quote
SwayStones

Quote
lsbz
Generally, if you can't see the irony in lyrics of bands like the Rolling Stones and the Velvet Underground, I think that you miss much of their intention. Then they become too heavy and you might take offense. They could be crossing lines from some women's point of view; I don't know, but the artistic mechanism of layers of dark and light will always stay the same.

I think now I get better what you meant by "irony" .
The so-called "misogynist lyrics " of some Stones'songs don't have to be taken on a literal meaning because Jagger don't mean what he sings in opposition for instance to some lyricsin Rap like " All what you need, bitch ,is to be @#$%& " because then the "singer" really means it .
Am I right ?

Surely, there's real serious relevance in the lyrics as well. That's the dark layer. Exaggeration has two advantages: it becomes more obvious what you mean, and less heavy because people are less likely to take it very literally. I think that Lou Reed once said: "I can do Lou Reed better than anyone". So it's always part of an act: one layer of light, one layer of dark, and one layer of light.

Quote
SwayStones
But then why Jagger,in an 2003 or 2005 interview said,when he was asked about the lyrics of Midnight Rambler and Stray Cat Blue ,something like "It was just me,I don't think it was a role"

The artists' interpretation of their own work is not authoritive.

Quote
lsbz
Surely, there's real serious relevance in the lyrics as well. That's the dark layer. Exaggeration has two advantages: it becomes more obvious what you mean, and less heavy because people are less likely to take it very literally. I think that Lou Reed once said: "I can do Lou Reed better than anyone". So it's always part of an act: one layer of light, one layer of dark, and one layer of light.

I am not sure one can explain the "misogynist or sexist " Stones' lyrics by using the word "irony " because imo "irony" can be either be an elegant and polite way of communication -as the so-called Socratic irony - or the Machiavellian "way" that is to say to flag the irony card in order to hide the real meaning & the truthfullness of the message .
To me,irony is made for the weaks ,like "hush hush "


To come back to the initial topic :
Listening Stray Cat Blues ' lyrics in 1976 - I was 15 years old- I must confess I was pretty "moved" by this invitation from a 33 years old 'Jagger to a 15 years old girl to "come up stairs " -naïve was I but I thought it could have been me - even if back then I didn't have then any clue & real idea of what it was about .
Although these same lyrics sound offensive to me nowadays-because soon my daughter will reach the same age -I have always wondered how come Jagger could sing such sexiest lyrics when on various time he looked -not for me but according to the critics - "girly " with make -up on stage .



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Quote
SwayStones
To me,irony is made for the weaks ,like "hush hush "

I'm sure that a psychologist could explain much irony as a way of suppressing underlying feelings. One could also doubt the mental soundness of the rock&roll life in general. I have no real opinion on that. My life has been that I have been in (rather unknown) bands myself, and I sort of feel at home with that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-18 21:40 by lsbz.