I asked about this a few years ago, but I forgot the answers. How did Keith, and Mick Taylor too for that matter, get that wonderful sound out of his Dan Armstrong Plexiglass guitar? I think somebody mentioned that he had an Ampeg V4 amp for it. So does that mean that a Dan Armstrong Plexi and an Ampeg amp is the heavenly combination I'm looking for?

JumpingKentFlash

V4 are great even a v2 will work but that sound is an svt Ampeg cranked as loud as it can go. Svt is a bass amp so you can imagine how loud that had to be to break up like that. The Dan Armstrong is cool and helps but the tone is from Keith and the svt. The guitar is next but not as critical as the svt. Remember he used LP and other Gibson's andd his tone was similar to the DA guitar. Good luck running a svt that loud!

Try an Ampeg gu12 if you can find one for similar sound to the v ampegs but in a smaller package.

Go Dawgs!

Is it possible to include this thread and question in some "Guitar sounds of each tour thread" and make it sticky?

Great thread, good info.

And my question: is there anyway I can get a similar sound from a Les Paul Studio with a Blackstar amp?

Define similar? On top of the uniqueness of this bass amp being used @ this level the other part of this sound is mulitple speakers in a closed cabinet hitting close to the same to time when the guitar is strummed. The speakers don't all start to vibrate at exactly the same time but are off by milliseconds. This also m m
makes Keith's tone more difficult to replicate. The tubes were uniquie as well. What kind of tubes does your amp use? Is closed back and more than one speaker? Overall crank down distortion or fuzz and increase gain and run the amp wide open. Next crank the bass knob up a good bit. Also remember that Tue recording affected his tone. Check some of the bootsvs yaya's for example. So what we hear today has been processed and is not the exact same as the way he sounded. Good luck!

Go Dawgs!

Simple: Dan Armstrongs and humbucker Gibsons through big Ampegs! Works every time. Keith started using Starts and Teles more in '72, so that thinned the sound out quite a bit, then later went to Mesa Boogie amps, and finally Fenders and other combos as opposed to giant stacks.

The first incarnation of the SVT was not a bass amp -it was a dual purpose amp for bass and guitar, with a sensitivity switch so you could adjust the gain of the pre-amp. Of course when you use a high gain pickup like the PAF's of the Customs or the Rock Treble pickup of the Armstrong and set the switch to most sensitive the amp distorts, even at low(er) volumes. Then, the 8*10 cabinet was designed for just 100 watts, so the speakers would distort soon. Then the tubes used where 6164B type, which ran too hot in normal use. End of the story: the '69 sound was fantastic, never to be repeated again. For the 1970 tour new ampegs with different specs where used, sounding different.

Mathijs

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Mathijs
The first incarnation of the SVT was not a bass amp -it was a dual purpose amp for bass and guitar, with a sensitivity switch so you could adjust the gain of the pre-amp. Of course when you use a high gain pickup like the PAF's of the Customs or the Rock Treble pickup of the Armstrong and set the switch to most sensitive the amp distorts, even at low(er) volumes. Then, the 8*10 cabinet was designed for just 100 watts, so the speakers would distort soon. Then the tubes used where 6164B type, which ran too hot in normal use. End of the story: the '69 sound was fantastic, never to be repeated again. For the 1970 tour new ampegs with different specs where used, sounding different.

Mathijs

very interesting about the dual purpose SVT's, Mathijs. Didn't know that. What a great idea. I wonder how they worked for bass? Was Bill playing the same SVT in '69, but using the bass setting?

My (limited) experience with Dan Armstrong guitars is that they are not that good. Mine never stayed in tune, but that wouldn't affect the sound.
I guess what I'm saying is that it always sounded to me that the lo-fi-ness of the DA contributed to the 69 great murky sound.

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71Tele

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Mathijs
The first incarnation of the SVT was not a bass amp -it was a dual purpose amp for bass and guitar, with a sensitivity switch so you could adjust the gain of the pre-amp. Of course when you use a high gain pickup like the PAF's of the Customs or the Rock Treble pickup of the Armstrong and set the switch to most sensitive the amp distorts, even at low(er) volumes. Then, the 8*10 cabinet was designed for just 100 watts, so the speakers would distort soon. Then the tubes used where 6164B type, which ran too hot in normal use. End of the story: the '69 sound was fantastic, never to be repeated again. For the 1970 tour new ampegs with different specs where used, sounding different.

Mathijs

very interesting about the dual purpose SVT's, Mathijs. Didn't know that. What a great idea. I wonder how they worked for bass? Was Bill playing the same SVT in '69, but using the bass setting?

Same SVT for bass and guitar. Next to the sensitivity switch there's also the two inputs (actually four), with the first to being low impedence and the second two high. So for bass you'd plug in to input one, choose low sensitivity and treble on 2 or so -the treble pot uses negative feedback so increasin the treble also increases the distortion level, just as on Tweed Fender amps. For guitar you choose input 2, high sensitivy and treble on 7 or so.

Then you can also play around with the gain factor of the pre-amp tubes, say a 12AX7 for bass and a 12AU7 for guitar. During the '69 tour a tech from Ampeg travelled with them, as the amps needed constant adjusting and where constantly burning up, which probably is the reason why you see borrowed Fender amps at some gigs.

Mathijs

I found an Ampeg SVT III Pro cheap. Would that do the trick?

JumpingKentFlash

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JumpingKentFlash
I found an Ampeg SVT III Pro cheap. Would that do the trick?

No, not at all. It's quite a good bass amp, but totally useless for guitar. It's tube pre and gain amp, solid state poweramp. Especially funk players like it, as it's more tight and less soggy than a true SVT.

Mathijs

Quote MATHIS ".... During the '69 tour a tech from Ampeg travelled with them, as the amps needed constant adjusting and where constantly burning up, which probably is the reason why you see borrowed Fender amps at some gigs.... "


Would it be an explanation why they played several numbers "unplugged" on one of the Oakland show (if i'm not mistaken)?

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maremma
Quote MATHIS ".... During the '69 tour a tech from Ampeg travelled with them, as the amps needed constant adjusting and where constantly burning up, which probably is the reason why you see borrowed Fender amps at some gigs.... "


Would it be an explanation why they played several numbers "unplugged" on one of the Oakland show (if i'm not mistaken)?

Are you referring to the acoustic numbers (prodigal son, I'm free, ...) or something else?

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Mathijs
The first incarnation of the SVT was not a bass amp -it was a dual purpose amp for bass and guitar, with a sensitivity switch so you could adjust the gain of the pre-amp. Of course when you use a high gain pickup like the PAF's of the Customs or the Rock Treble pickup of the Armstrong and set the switch to most sensitive the amp distorts, even at low(er) volumes. Then, the 8*10 cabinet was designed for just 100 watts, so the speakers would distort soon. Then the tubes used where 6164B type, which ran too hot in normal use. End of the story: the '69 sound was fantastic, never to be repeated again. For the 1970 tour new ampegs with different specs where used, sounding different.

Mathijs

Mathijs man, are you a guitar roadie or do own a musical instrument shop? How the hell d'you know all this stuff?

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sonomastone

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maremma
Quote MATHIS ".... During the '69 tour a tech from Ampeg travelled with them, as the amps needed constant adjusting and where constantly burning up, which probably is the reason why you see borrowed Fender amps at some gigs.... "


Would it be an explanation why they played several numbers "unplugged" on one of the Oakland show (if i'm not mistaken)?

Are you referring to the acoustic numbers (prodigal son, I'm free, ...) or something else?

The latter, if I'm recollecting right: At the first Oakland show both Keith's and Mick T's amps blew during the opener
and they did the acoustic set right after that while the techies were trying to fix things

I wonder is a boutique amp maker could duplicate the dual purpose circuitry of the those svt's lowerthe wattage and get close?
Still think gu12 is the closest in a small package. Especially w vintage 7921(I think) tubes. Wish mine had a closed back though.

Go Dawgs!

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nankerphlege
I wonder is a boutique amp maker could duplicate the dual purpose circuitry of the those svt's lowerthe wattage and get close?
Still think gu12 is the closest in a small package. Especially w vintage 7921(I think) tubes. Wish mine had a closed back though.

Taylor himself seems to be using this: [www.catalinbread.com]

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nankerphlege
I wonder is a boutique amp maker could duplicate the dual purpose circuitry of the those svt's lowerthe wattage and get close?
Still think gu12 is the closest in a small package. Especially w vintage 7921(I think) tubes. Wish mine had a closed back though.

I'm sure someone could do it. It might be easier to simulate it with software and play it through a Line 6/Bogner amp.

One must remember however that at least 50% of tone comes from the player and not the gear. We also need to consider how KR has his guitars set up....volume and tone controls, pickup positioning and windings, the way he hit the strings, etc.. let;s face it, it's unlikely either of them would have got that heavy sound with Fender single coil pickups.

Set up is huge.