was listening yo
chain of fools today
loved it
great song
have to mention "respect" as well..
anyone wants to add?

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6853
was listening yo
chain of fools today
loved it
great song
have to mention "respect" as well..
anyone wants to add?

Yes, most every album from Aretha in the sixties is a 'Must-Have'...

2 1 2 0

I don't listen much...she's obviously a good singer but the best thing about her 'Jumping Jack Flash' was the clear vinyl and Keith PS.

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Munichhilton
I don't listen much...she's obviously a good singer but the best thing about her 'Jumping Jack Flash' was the clear vinyl and Keith PS.

being a cover version of a world famous song, this version was for my money good. the groove the feel in the singing.... And keef seemed to like it...

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6853

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Munichhilton
I don't listen much...she's obviously a good singer but the best thing about her 'Jumping Jack Flash' was the clear vinyl and Keith PS.

being a cover version of a world famous song, this version was for my money good. the groove the feel in the singing.... And keef seemed to like it...

...keef was in his mad at Mick phase...he wasn't thinking clearly...

Regardless of the JJF debacle Aretha was one of the few artists that was good in the 1980's...Freeway Of Love

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Come On

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6853
was listening yo
chain of fools today
loved it
great song
have to mention "respect" as well..
anyone wants to add?

Yes, most every album from Aretha in the sixties is a 'Must-Have'...

That must be the explanation : I got a torrent of her Montreux 1971 show and I found it really boring. She should have played there before Dec.31 1969...

This is all the Aretha you need!

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dcba

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Come On

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6853
was listening yo
chain of fools today
loved it
great song
have to mention "respect" as well..
anyone wants to add?

Yes, most every album from Aretha in the sixties is a 'Must-Have'...

That must be the explanation : I got a torrent of her Montreux 1971 show and I found it really boring. She should have played there before Dec.31 1969...

Aretha's live back up bands were hit and miss. Except for the King Curtis-led Kingpins from the Fillmore West shows, they tended to be more Vegas than Muscle Shoals...and it took the songs out of their element.

Great thread BTW.
One of the things about Aretha is that we get so used to the 'Queen of Soul' title....and Aretha's latter-day period, where she had lost most of the power in her voice, and leaned more toward the Clive Davis-school of schmaltz. Younger people might wonder 'What's so great about Aretha?' You have to go back and find the genius. I rediscovered Aretha about five years ago - by rediscover, I mean I went back and really listened to the Atlantic stuff and read about the sessions. She was never just a singer, that was the most obvious thing she did. She wrote, played piano like a muther, arranged and led her studio musicians on the recordings. Make no mistake, Jerry Wexler and Tom Dowd deserve respect for giving her free reign....but she produced those songs - it was Aretha, and the Muscle Shoals guys making those records.
No other female artist can touch Aretha at her 67-75 peak.


This might be her last great vocal: from a demo....





Andrewt, how about this one:







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-08 22:17 by stupidguy2.

AndrewT, Thanks for that link!
I just opened the link you posted above.
Fantastic! I've never seen it - thanks!
Very rare to see Aretha in a documentary/interview setting from that period.

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andrewt
This is all the Aretha you need!

this is amazing!, is this available on boot or to buy?

Aretha's Columbia material is underrated, as they didn't know what to do with her.

Jerry Wexler took her down to FAME in Muscle Shoals, but an argument took place between Ted White, Aretha's husband, and one of the FAME musicians. Aretha cut I Never Loved A Man and Do Right Woman at FAME, but everything else from 1967 - 1969 was cut at Atlantic's studio in New York. She, Aretha, also managed to get some of the Muscles Shoals guys to record with her in New York, but she also used other musicians like Cornell Dupree, Bernard Purdy. Her backing vocalists ranged from Irma and Carolyn Franklin, and the Sweet Inspirations, pre Presley.

After 1969, Aretha did record at Criteria Studios in Florida, and she also used Duane Allman as a session guitarist, particularly on her cover of The Weight. However, Aretha's material did show some peaks and troughs even for Atlantic. An example of this is in her Live In Europe album, which didn't exactly set the world on fire, whereas Live @ The Fillmore, 1971, is pure brilliance, and, with a certain guest star, Ray Charles, on Spirit In The Dark, pure genius. What you need to do, concerning Aretha, is to buy the Fillmore album, and then buy, recorded months' later, the Amazing Grace album. The Fillmore is Aretha taking her music to, and I quote Jerry Wexler, "The Longhairs", whereas the Amazing Grace album is Aretha at a pinnacle, almost about to convert Messrs Dawkins and Hitchens. After Amazing Grace, Aretha never touched such heights again, and with the exception of the Quincy Jones produced Somewhere, and Curtis Mayfield's Sparkle, her material became disposable.

Aretha is superb. I have the 100 Hit Legends Collection. That many tracks on 5 CD's.

Wexler originally wanted to send Aretha to Stax, but Jim Stewart turned him down because of costs, and because he was tired of Atlantic taking advantage of Stax. So it was fate that she ended up at Muscle Shoals. It worked out for the best. I don't think Aretha would have had as much freedom with the Stax musicians. They tended to produce themselves and had their own thing. Aretha thrived at Muscle Shoals because those guys, except for Cogbill - were younger and still awed being able to play with people... and had a more collaborative philosophy. They were a better fit.

The Muscle Shoals guys - Jimmy Johnson, Roger Hawkins, Spooner Oldham, and Memphis guys, Chips Moman and Tommy Cogbill - went to New York with Aretha. In 68, they added Barry Becket, Jerry Jemmot and David Hood. It was the same core throughout all the 67-68 sessions. I always think of the Dupree-Purdy period as Aretha's second classic phase. And she used the Dixie Flyers with Jim Dickinson on Spirit in the Dark. it's interesting that in that period, all those musicians on those albums were from the South, including Purdy and Dupree, who were from Dallas.
tomcasagrande, did you know that Aretha had booked a recording session at American Studios in Memphis, with Tommy Cogbill and the guys who played on Dusty in Memphis?
The session was cancelled in the aftermath of MLK's assassination. We can only guess what would have come out of that.

I agree tomcasagrande about Aretha never quite reaching those heights after the Altantic years. For one thing, the voice lost its power - she has said she destroyed the low-mid range in her voice by those early years of belting it out. I believe it.
This is why she relies on the upper, more nasal register now. I think its something else. I think she lost some of that urgency, passion....like Dylan or the Stones. The creative peak will never be repeated.
Another favorite from the second Atlantic phase:

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Munichhilton

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6853

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Munichhilton
I don't listen much...she's obviously a good singer but the best thing about her 'Jumping Jack Flash' was the clear vinyl and Keith PS.

being a cover version of a world famous song, this version was for my money good. the groove the feel in the singing.... And keef seemed to like it...

...keef was in his mad at Mick phase...he wasn't thinking clearly...

Regardless of the JJF debacle Aretha was one of the few artists that was good in the 1980's...Freeway Of Love

Yes, Freeway of Love! Afterwards George Michael said working with Aretha was so intense he wouldn't be able to do it again! So many more great Aretha tunes...Never Loved A Man (The Way I Love You).....

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owlbynite

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Munichhilton

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6853

Quote
Munichhilton
I don't listen much...she's obviously a good singer but the best thing about her 'Jumping Jack Flash' was the clear vinyl and Keith PS.

being a cover version of a world famous song, this version was for my money good. the groove the feel in the singing.... And keef seemed to like it...

...keef was in his mad at Mick phase...he wasn't thinking clearly...

Regardless of the JJF debacle Aretha was one of the few artists that was good in the 1980's...Freeway Of Love

Yes, Freeway of Love! Afterwards George Michael said working with Aretha was so intense he wouldn't be able to do it again! So many more great Aretha tunes...Never Loved A Man (The Way I Love You).....

Freeway of Love good ! That's a matter of taste. I don't think any of her 80s material would ever be as good as what she did from 1966 - 1973. I am heartened to know that they intended to place Aretha at American Studios in Memphis.

I'd also check out It's Just A Matter of Time, an excellent Ace compilation of her soulful Columbia sides. Aretha had it pre-Atlantic.

...Ain't No Way ......



ROCKMAN

It's soulful, gospel, rock and swampy all at the same time. This is seriously funky.





And this is perfect:

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stupidguy2
AndrewT, Thanks for that link!
I just opened the link you posted above.
Fantastic! I've never seen it - thanks!
Very rare to see Aretha in a documentary/interview setting from that period.

You're very welcome. It puts chills up my spine every time I watch it.
An incredible show!

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stupidguy2

Andrewt, how about this one:

WOW! spectacular. Thanks!

Some underrated gems that sound like they could have been written by Bacharach. Also shows the diversity of not only her songwriting, but the Muscle Shoals rhythm section. Aretha wrote the first two, and rearranged the third. Love that Brubeck-esque middle part of Trying to Overcome...and Roger Hawkins on drums matches it perfectly.

Like Otis, when you listen to their entire catalog...you discover these little pieces of perfection. Their second choices were lesser artists only choices.















Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-09 18:12 by stupidguy2.

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tomcasagranda
I'd also check out It's Just A Matter of Time, an excellent Ace compilation of her soulful Columbia sides. Aretha had it pre-Atlantic.

You're right. The Pre-Columbia years are under-examined and tend to get forgotten. It's weird listening to that stuff because her voice seemed more polished....and with Aretha, because of what came afterwards at Atlantic, it sounds almost foreign. But its unmistakenly her. According to Clyde Otis, one of the few people at Columbia who realized her potential, her controlling manager/husband Ted White would tell her:
'Don't shout' or something to that effect. In other words, he was telling her to rein in her vocal flourishes, the gospel roots because it wasn't pop enough,
You can hear trying to keep herself in check, not quite letting herself go...but still there's that power in her voice. And on the few occasions when they let her play piano, her performance had more authority, more confidence.

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andrewt

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stupidguy2
AndrewT, Thanks for that link!
I just opened the link you posted above.
Fantastic! I've never seen it - thanks!
Very rare to see Aretha in a documentary/interview setting from that period.

You're very welcome. It puts chills up my spine every time I watch it.
An incredible show!

Andrew, it's hard to find anything on Aretha live - where the band could keep up.
I could watch Aretha all day.

Marianne Faithful once said that Aretha's voice was like 'the voice of God.' The best description of her voice ever.
You can hear that piece of heaven here.








Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-09 18:38 by stupidguy2.

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stupidguy2
Marianne Faithful once said that Aretha's voice was like 'the voice of God.' The best description of her voice ever.
You can hear that piece of heaven here.

That's a Van McCoy number that she returned to, albeit in an inferior way, at Arista.

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tomcasagranda

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stupidguy2
Marianne Faithful once said that Aretha's voice was like 'the voice of God.' The best description of her voice ever.
You can hear that piece of heaven here.

That's a Van McCoy number that she returned to, albeit in an inferior way, at Arista.

The Arista period is mixed bag for me. On one hand, she had her 'comeback' there, and brought her to the charts again,...but to me, it had nothing to do with what had made Aretha so great at Atlantic.
It was her singing duets with George Michael, being produced by the latest trendy superstar producer. It was all about the commercial product, and the commercialization/homogenization of The Queen of Soul.
Apart from a glimpse here and there, but there has been very little soul and passion in these records and latter-day live performances.
Clive Davis pushed that whole 'diva' image in her Arista incarnation - like an elder Whitney, Celine, Mariah etc...the glitz and glitter aspect of a soul performer.
But Aretha was never that. Ever. She had always been at her best when she was directing her own records, on piano, in the songwriting, arranging - Davis seems to prop her up with the best producer, best trendy gimmick, best whatever....but its all wrong.
Arista has become the latter-day version of her time at Columbia: shaping her into some 'singer' in a sequins gown. Davis seems to have indulged Aretha's ego too much. He's happy for her to just to keep recoding record after record of pure pop. While Wexler had a sense of her gospel roots - Davis is all schlock. This is the man who has managed to nurture an idiosyncratic talent like Patti Smith and others...
But I don't think he ever knew what to do with Aretha apart from hiring popular collaborators. This woman just needs to sit in a studio at the piano and surrounded by good musicians. No flash.
I have this hope that she will eventually do a Bettye Levette or Johnny Cash (Rick Rubin strip down). But Davis doesn't seem to have the imagination to do that.

If all you know about Aretha is Freeway of Love or Jump to It or a Snickers commercial, you don't know Aretha. Unfortunately, this is all she seems to be interested in. And it's hurt her legacy to younger generations.


Here's an outtake of Aretha doing her version of Motown.







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-10 06:10 by stupidguy2.

I found this - its sublime.

Wasn't Aretha's voice declared a National Treasure some years ago (by the powers-that-be, whoever they are?)