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Doxa

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His Majesty

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24FPS
I remember Mick in an interview saying that Brian shouldn't have been in show business. There is a certain phoniness to show business, and why show the bastards your weakness? Brian's talking about his health is disconcerting because we don't expect someone to speak honestly. It's like asking someone how they're doing and they go on about what's wrong with them. An Entertainment Show on National Television is the inappropriate place to go on about your little health problem.

Well had Brian been anything other than who he was, everything would be different including Mick's life, vice verse etc etc.

So if I understand it you are having a go at him for being honest about something just because it doesn't follow the rules of some imaginary show business rule book?

I have never thought that specific Mick Jagger quote is anyway belittlening or pejorative towards Brian. I think Mick was sincere in reflecting that Brian was not really a show business person. Yeah, he was vital in making The Stones popular and everything, and the "fame" surely went to his head but I think he basically was more of a blues purist, artistic, serious, authentic player in the first place. Keith only sees that Brian was not able to cope with fame - but I think Mick goes deeper in seeing the reasons for this.

- Doxa

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Marie

"I don't really want to pop psychoanalyze Brian. He wasn't really good material to be in the pop business. He was too sensitive to every slight and perceived slight; just over sensitive to everything. And then when he started taking drugs that became more and more exaggerated. I think he was a shy person - and shy people in show business put themselves at risk. Shy actors have to drink before they can act.I've seen shy singers who take drugs before they go out. Those people are very bad for show business because they're not like some other people, like myself or more extrovert people. We have a shy part, of course, and don't want to make fools of ourselves, but it is completely overshadowed by an extrovert nature. You take the knocks and you deal with it. And you're still out there doing it. But Brian wasn't really like that, and there are a lot of other people like that, and they try to handle it by drinking, or being rude, and they suffer. They're basically in the wrong business. They have to alter their personalities to be what they perceive they want to be. he just wanted to be in a blues band and didn't really think it was gonna be show business." - Mick Jagger, 1999. Article on Brian from Mojo magazine.

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Doxa

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Marie

"I don't really want to pop psychoanalyze Brian. He wasn't really good material to be in the pop business. He was too sensitive to every slight and perceived slight; just over sensitive to everything. And then when he started taking drugs that became more and more exaggerated. I think he was a shy person - and shy people in show business put themselves at risk. Shy actors have to drink before they can act.I've seen shy singers who take drugs before they go out. Those people are very bad for show business because they're not like some other people, like myself or more extrovert people. We have a shy part, of course, and don't want to make fools of ourselves, but it is completely overshadowed by an extrovert nature. You take the knocks and you deal with it. And you're still out there doing it. But Brian wasn't really like that, and there are a lot of other people like that, and they try to handle it by drinking, or being rude, and they suffer. They're basically in the wrong business. They have to alter their personalities to be what they perceive they want to be. he just wanted to be in a blues band and didn't really think it was gonna be show business." - Mick Jagger, 1999. Article on Brian from Mojo magazine.

Thanks for the whole quote! (I think I had another one in mind - ROLLING STONE '95 I quess - but the basic idea is the same I recall).

I cannot help myself thinking now that Mich had another Rolling Stones guitarist in his mind when he said this:

there are a lot of other people like that, and they try to handle it by drinking, or being rude, and they suffer. They're basically in the wrong business. They have to alter their personalities to be what they perceive they want to be.



I mean, did he just read LIFE? (I remember Mick mentioning - like Keith's mother -about Keith being a shy person, and that for some reason Keith wants to deny that.)

- Doxa

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Green Lady

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Doxa

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Marie

"I don't really want to pop psychoanalyze Brian. He wasn't really good material to be in the pop business. He was too sensitive to every slight and perceived slight; just over sensitive to everything. And then when he started taking drugs that became more and more exaggerated. I think he was a shy person - and shy people in show business put themselves at risk. Shy actors have to drink before they can act.I've seen shy singers who take drugs before they go out. Those people are very bad for show business because they're not like some other people, like myself or more extrovert people. We have a shy part, of course, and don't want to make fools of ourselves, but it is completely overshadowed by an extrovert nature. You take the knocks and you deal with it. And you're still out there doing it. But Brian wasn't really like that, and there are a lot of other people like that, and they try to handle it by drinking, or being rude, and they suffer. They're basically in the wrong business. They have to alter their personalities to be what they perceive they want to be. he just wanted to be in a blues band and didn't really think it was gonna be show business." - Mick Jagger, 1999. Article on Brian from Mojo magazine.

Thanks for the whole quote! (I think I had another one in mind - ROLLING STONE '95 I quess - but the basic idea is the same I recall).

I cannot help myself thinking now that Mich had another Rolling Stones guitarist in his mind when he said this:

there are a lot of other people like that, and they try to handle it by drinking, or being rude, and they suffer. They're basically in the wrong business. They have to alter their personalities to be what they perceive they want to be.



I mean, did he just read LIFE? (I remember Mick mentioning - like Keith's mother -about Keith being a shy person, and that for some reason Keith wants to deny that.)

- Doxa

Hmmm... Time was when Mick would have denied vehemently that the Stones were "in show business". Show business was wearing matching suits, appearing in Vegas, riding the silly end-of-show roundabout at the Palladium - what Keith describes as "all the blah-blah-blah". Mick was never a shy person to begin with, and he seems to enjoy the spotlight, but he's developed the "nice-bunch-of-guys" personality to buy whatever privacy he needs.

One bit of the early part of "Life" describes the shyer Keith's reaction (pleased relief) to find that he doesn't suffer from stage-fright and can play OK live. It's the rest of the whole fame package that he found difficult - but he too developed a coping strategy, the whole Cool-Keef image and lifestyle, to hide behind.

Brian probably never did find a technique for coping with being famous. I think he mostly enjoyed it, but physically and mentally it wore him out, and increasingly he was trying to find ways of taking time off - which he felt he needed and which the others just saw as laziness, skiving, letting the band down. Like that person in the office (every office has one) who is somehow always (genuinely) sick on a busy Monday morning.

The 1999 Mojo article alludes to Jones's emotional and pyschological burdens. Charlie Watts agreed his problems were deep-rooted and fame accelerated their growth. Jones's childhood, etc.

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His Majesty
They are talking about the book The Rolling Stones - As We Told it to Pete Goodman.

Sorry, but I'm rather tired of them, especially Keith, for bashing Brian for letting fame get to him! They were all pretty fu**cked up, suffered and benefited from the fickle thing that is fame.

I often wonder if Keith would have the balls to be such a cu*t to Brian were he still alive? The fact he is so disrespectful to a dead former ''friend'', is very telling of his real character.

In interviews Mick has mostly been reasonably respectful, but still quite honest at the same time about Brian, but Keith!? Man that guy still has many issues as far as Brian is concerned. Seems that poor old bastid still can't get to grips with someone who was so important to his life, but never really had the chance to mature and sort himself out!? Keith lived far longer, but yet still seems to talk like he's 19!?

Plain and simple, Keith is lucky that he's survived! Had Keith died during one of his many low points, he might have found himself in the same position as Brian in that people mostly remembered him as this messed up person.

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24FPS
I think in some other interview, maybe the '95 one, Mick said Brian would have been better suited to have been a music professor. Brian's conflict seems to be with wanting to lead the Stones, but not having the outgoing personality to handle what show business demands. You can see it in the awkward way he tries to steal the camera's attention in some of their earlier TV appearances. By the end, Rock & Roll Circus, he's uncomfortable on camera, and distant.

Extroverts are not better than Introverts. Some extroverts can be shallow and unable to see themselves objectively. Charlie and Bill knew they were shy and well suited to be sidemen. Brian might have been happier accepting his status as the ultimate Stones sideman. Charlie and Bill quietly went about the business of nailing down the rhythm, with Bill showing leaps in growth as a melodic bassman. Brian would have been well served to develop his rhythm guitar playing, along with pushing the musical boundaries and instrumentation of the group ala George Harrison. The group provided all the fame Brian needed, and in time he would have received his due in the public for his great contributions to the Stones, as Charlie and Bill eventually did.

Unfortunately Brian's ego and insecurities were too great to allow him to take a role better suited to his personality. Keith covers his shyness up with a certain show-business sheen. "Glad to be here tonight. Glad to be anywhere, har, har", for the 200th time. I still love Charlie and Bill's stoney faced approach to it all, including the taunts of Mick and Keith, and Brian. Of course Charlie might paste you one if you got too fresh.

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courtfieldroad
I think it's obvious Brian had all kinds of issues, but analyzing this interview in relation to those issues is really stretching it. He wasn't sharing inappropriate info, it was reported everywhere. It isn't so unexpected he should mention being sick as he was explaining why he himself needed the break he had just been asked about.

Anyone familiar with Brian's interviewing style knows that he rarely did short answers. Some people are like that. They like to talk, and they give more info than was asked for, no great mystery there.

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Carnaby
Let's all remember we are talking about a genius.

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Green Lady
Brian...[is] answering the question as if it were a genuine enquiry after his health - which on that sort of programme, it isn't.

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Green Lady
(By the way, does anyone know what "the book" is that they are talking about?)

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mikeeder

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24FPS
I think in some other interview, maybe the '95 one, Mick said Brian would have been better suited to have been a music professor. Brian's conflict seems to be with wanting to lead the Stones, but not having the outgoing personality to handle what show business demands. You can see it in the awkward way he tries to steal the camera's attention in some of their earlier TV appearances. By the end, Rock & Roll Circus, he's uncomfortable on camera, and distant.

Extroverts are not better than Introverts. Some extroverts can be shallow and unable to see themselves objectively. Charlie and Bill knew they were shy and well suited to be sidemen. Brian might have been happier accepting his status as the ultimate Stones sideman. Charlie and Bill quietly went about the business of nailing down the rhythm, with Bill showing leaps in growth as a melodic bassman. Brian would have been well served to develop his rhythm guitar playing, along with pushing the musical boundaries and instrumentation of the group ala George Harrison. The group provided all the fame Brian needed, and in time he would have received his due in the public for his great contributions to the Stones, as Charlie and Bill eventually did.

Unfortunately Brian's ego and insecurities were too great to allow him to take a role better suited to his personality. Keith covers his shyness up with a certain show-business sheen. "Glad to be here tonight. Glad to be anywhere, har, har", for the 200th time. I still love Charlie and Bill's stoney faced approach to it all, including the taunts of Mick and Keith, and Brian. Of course Charlie might paste you one if you got too fresh.

Agreed!

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swiss

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courtfieldroad
I think it's obvious Brian had all kinds of issues, but analyzing this interview in relation to those issues is really stretching it. He wasn't sharing inappropriate info, it was reported everywhere. It isn't so unexpected he should mention being sick as he was explaining why he himself needed the break he had just been asked about.

Anyone familiar with Brian's interviewing style knows that he rarely did short answers. Some people are like that. They like to talk, and they give more info than was asked for, no great mystery there.

Did you seven read my response to your post? did you ignore it or simply disagree? or maybe not understand it?

Show me some evidence that there were widespread stories about Brian being absent from gigs. Certainly here the interviewer is NOT---this is what I have said 4 times in this thread--asking Brian Jones why HE needs a break. He is asking a lite generic softball question. Which Brian decides to interpret personally and go on about "the doctors say..." "mysterious virus..."

It was "inappropriate" in that he was not responding appropriately to the question that was asked.

Doxa, I think you're right that Mick was just pointing out, not particularly judgmentally, that Brian was too sensitive for the slings and arrows of celebrity and public life.

I can understand why people who met him (Lennon and Dylan included) found him oversensitive and annoying, Mr Jones.

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Green Lady

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Doxa

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Marie

"I don't really want to pop psychoanalyze Brian. He wasn't really good material to be in the pop business. He was too sensitive to every slight and perceived slight; just over sensitive to everything. And then when he started taking drugs that became more and more exaggerated. I think he was a shy person - and shy people in show business put themselves at risk. Shy actors have to drink before they can act.I've seen shy singers who take drugs before they go out. Those people are very bad for show business because they're not like some other people, like myself or more extrovert people. We have a shy part, of course, and don't want to make fools of ourselves, but it is completely overshadowed by an extrovert nature. You take the knocks and you deal with it. And you're still out there doing it. But Brian wasn't really like that, and there are a lot of other people like that, and they try to handle it by drinking, or being rude, and they suffer. They're basically in the wrong business. They have to alter their personalities to be what they perceive they want to be. he just wanted to be in a blues band and didn't really think it was gonna be show business." - Mick Jagger, 1999. Article on Brian from Mojo magazine.

Thanks for the whole quote! (I think I had another one in mind - ROLLING STONE '95 I quess - but the basic idea is the same I recall).

I cannot help myself thinking now that Mich had another Rolling Stones guitarist in his mind when he said this:

there are a lot of other people like that, and they try to handle it by drinking, or being rude, and they suffer. They're basically in the wrong business. They have to alter their personalities to be what they perceive they want to be.



I mean, did he just read LIFE? (I remember Mick mentioning - like Keith's mother -about Keith being a shy person, and that for some reason Keith wants to deny that.)

- Doxa

Hmmm... Time was when Mick would have denied vehemently that the Stones were "in show business". Show business was wearing matching suits, appearing in Vegas, riding the silly end-of-show roundabout at the Palladium - what Keith describes as "all the blah-blah-blah". Mick was never a shy person to begin with, and he seems to enjoy the spotlight, but he's developed the "nice-bunch-of-guys" personality to buy whatever privacy he needs.

One bit of the early part of "Life" describes the shyer Keith's reaction (pleased relief) to find that he doesn't suffer from stage-fright and can play OK live. It's the rest of the whole fame package that he found difficult - but he too developed a coping strategy, the whole Cool-Keef image and lifestyle, to hide behind.

Brian probably never did find a technique for coping with being famous. I think he mostly enjoyed it, but physically and mentally it wore him out, and increasingly he was trying to find ways of taking time off - which he felt he needed and which the others just saw as laziness, skiving, letting the band down. Like that person in the office (every office has one) who is somehow always (genuinely) sick on a busy Monday morning.

I think that's what's happening in this interview. Brian isn't giving the "showbiz" answer, or evading the question as Mick would do - he's answering the question as if it were a genuine enquiry after his health - which on that sort of programme, it isn't.

(By the way, does anyone know what "the book" is that they are talking about?)

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swiss

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His Majesty
Brian missing gigs has been blown way out of proportion, he probably missed about 15 or so shows. Take a look at their touring schedule from 1963 - 1966, crazy sh*t that would probably kill most folks!

Brian being a somewhat weaker person health wise than the others isn't a crime.

For sure!

I think the issue is his talking about himself and his feeble health as if it were appropriate or interesting in that context---i.e., a generic prompt for a few banal comments prior to their playing. It is indicative of Brian's personality. Self-involved. Presuming the interviewer wishes to know about his cold...and kinda going on about it.

As said, the others wouldn't have talked about themselves like that if they had a cold; if for no other reason they had a band/group identity and owuldn't have rattled on about themselves like that.

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swiss
I can understand why people who met him (Lennon and Dylan included) found him oversensitive and annoying, Mr Jones.

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Come On
I will believe that as fast as Dylan himself will confirm it in his next book or so...

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lem motlow
yeah,they would never rattle on about themselves...really??

and it doesnt matter what the "interviewer wishes to know about his cold" the guy is interviewing him for the public and i would assume a great deal of his fans would wonder how brian was feeling.if its "indicative of his personality,self involved" what does writing a 500+ page book about yourself say?
this is a young man who never lived past 27 yet everything about him is taken apart piece by piece.did anyone ever hear of the common decency to not trample on someones grave.for f/cks sake,they guy was just a kid.

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24FPS
NEPTUNE - The point is not that Brian was saying anything offensive. The point is the appropriateness of it. You're on a superficial TV show, the interviewer could give two cents about you, asks a passing question, and you display weakness. It's not the end of the world, but it does show Brian acting a little weird. Maybe he was weak at that time. He was certainly feisty on Shindig when he told everybody to shut up and listen to Howlin' Wolf. But it does reveal a fragility. And yet, he was a very cruel man, per Keith. So Complicated.

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24FPS
NEPTUNE - The point is not that Brian was saying anything offensive. The point is the appropriateness of it. You're on a superficial TV show, the interviewer could give two cents about you, asks a passing question, and you display weakness. It's not the end of the world, but it does show Brian acting a little weird. Maybe he was weak at that time. He was certainly feisty on Shindig when he told everybody to shut up and listen to Howlin' Wolf. But it does reveal a fragility. And yet, he was a very cruel man, per Keith. So Complicated.

I don't remember Lennon saying anything gracious about Brian. He seemed more interested in making sure Brian wasn't seen as a genius, as if he, Lennon, could be the only genius. (Which IMO is an insecurity Lennon displayed because of his limited talent on musical instruments.) And those other people cited as having nice things to say didn't have to deal with Brian on a daily basis, in the trenches as it were.
I thought Dylan liked him.
I know he was impressed by Brian's facility with blues guitar and that they played acoustics all night when the power went out in NYC.