This is mine...

"We Love You"
"Sing This All Together"
"Citadel"
"In Another Land" (Bill Wyman)
"2000 Man"
"Dandelion"
"Child of the Moon"
"Sing This All Together (See What Happens)"
"She's a Rainbow"
"The Lantern"
"2000 Light Years from Home"
"Moonlight Mile"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-30 03:07 by treaclefingers.

I like yours....I'm ok with the original too though

Interesting ... did Moonlight Mile begin around Satanic time period? That would make a great fit for this album (although it doesn't do too bad on Sticky either)

Anyway, I'd lose the (see what happens) track, but the rest looks good!

>did Moonlight Mile begin around Satanic time period?

No.

This is mine:

She's A Rainbow
2000 Light Years From Home

Thank god, they never walked down this path again.

Did Brain had a lot to do with the idea of making such an album or where the pschychedelic sixties

Mine is:

2000 man
Blood red wine
We love you
Travellin man
Sing this all together
In another land
Still a fool
She´s a rainbow
Long Long While

2 1 2 0

With the singles that didn't appear on original album releases, it would be an interesting album, imo:

Sing This All Together
Citadel
2000 Man
She's A Rainbow
Child Of The Moon
The Lantern
2000 Light Years From Home
Paint It Black
Dandelion
We Love You



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-30 10:20 by DandelionPowderman.

Quote
steffiestones
Did Brain had a lot to do with the idea of making such an album or where the pschychedelic sixties

Many seem to look at it as "Brian's album" for some weird reason despite the fact that he is said to have hated it. It's even said that he warned Mick and Keith not to do the project but they didn't listen. That said Brian did a lot of the arrangements with Keith and Nicky Hopkins so he was involved to say the least. His addings on it are superb and saves a lot of the songs. The mellotron parts for 2000 Lightyears From Home and the dulcimer and recorder on Gomper are amazing.

My TSMR

Sing This All Together
Citadel
In Another Land
We Love You
2000 Man
Dandelion
She's A Rainbow
The Lantern
Gomper
2000 Lightyears From Home
Sing This All Together (See What Happens)

But I think it's great as it is. An underrated attempt to make "Stones-psychedelia" and I love the experimental sides of Mick and Keith's songwriting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-30 10:21 by tonterapi.

Quote
LeonidP
Interesting ... did Moonlight Mile begin around Satanic time period? That would make a great fit for this album (although it doesn't do too bad on Sticky either)

Anyway, I'd lose the (see what happens) track, but the rest looks good!

No I didn't think it was, so I wasn't sure about putting it on but it has that great vibe. I also considered Continental Drift but was on the fence on that one so in the end left it off.

would tsmr have benefitted from a re recording at the time ?
i was just wondering that the other day when i read that the ting tings had rejected a whole finished album and re recorded it .

song good as they are but could be fantastic :

she's a rainbow
citadel
2000 man
lantern
2000 lightyears

and its associate tracks

child of the moon
we love you
dandelion

a strip down or radical re-arrangement would bring into line with the sound of Beggars the following

In Another Land
gomper ( with a proper instrumental at the end ) (see also rude awakening #9 CCR)
on with the show


probably a lost cause

Sing This All Together
Sing This All Together (See What Happens)


basically not enough guitarwork

Quote
straycatblues73
would tsmr have benefitted from a re recording at the time ?
i was just wondering that the other day when i read that the ting tings had rejected a whole finished album and re recorded it .

song good as they are but could be fantastic :

she's a rainbow
citadel
2000 man
lantern
2000 lightyears

and its associate tracks

child of the moon
we love you
dandelion

a strip down or radical re-arrangement would bring into line with the sound of Beggars the following

In Another Land
gomper ( with a proper instrumental at the end ) (see also rude awakening #9 CCR)
on with the show


probably a lost cause

Sing This All Together
Sing This All Together (See What Happens)


basically not enough guitarwork

I've read that the true listening of TSMR needs to be done in MONO as this is the way it was originally recorded and mixed. The stereo mix came after.

From that perspective I don't think we've seen a mono release of this since the original DECCA and London vinyls in the 60's. This is one album I think would benefit from a new mono release, (actually the whole 60s catalogue) in the same vein as the Beatles and Dylan recent releases.

It wasn't recorded in mono.

Weren't the mono and stereo versions availale from release date?

I know a lot of folks prefer mono, but certain details which are present in the stereo mix gets lost in mono mix. I'd love for there to be a Their Satanic Majesties Request in surround sound. All those overdubs spread about the room.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-31 16:39 by His Majesty.

Quote
His Majesty
It wasn't recorded in mono.

Weren't the mono and stereo versions availale from release date?

I know a lot of folks prefer mono, but certain details which are present in the stereo mix gets lost in mono mix. I'd love for there to be a Their Satanic Majesties Request in surround sound. All those overdubs spread about the room.

agree..and sing this all together uncut ,,

Quote
His Majesty
It wasn't recorded in mono.

Weren't the mono and stereo versions availale from release date?

I know a lot of folks prefer mono, but certain details which are present in the stereo mix gets lost in mono mix. I'd love for there to be a Their Satanic Majesties Request in surround sound. All those overdubs spread about the room.

Are you certain of this? Just because both versions were available from release date doesn't mean anything. Sgt. Pepper for example, was recorded and mixed for mono by the band and the subsequent stereo mix was done after the fact. The 'true' version of the album, the way it was intended by the band, was mono.

I thought I had read the same thing about TSMR but I'm not certain of that.

the whole lp is magic, really love gomper (but not the last part with the awful flute), 2000 ligth years from home is awesome, back in the sixties we used to play it on and on at the jukebox of the local snack bar, on with the show, so completely different from any kind of music at that time, 2000 man could be a hit nowadays and should be played VERY LOUD

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
His Majesty
It wasn't recorded in mono.

Weren't the mono and stereo versions availale from release date?

I know a lot of folks prefer mono, but certain details which are present in the stereo mix gets lost in mono mix. I'd love for there to be a Their Satanic Majesties Request in surround sound. All those overdubs spread about the room.

Are you certain of this? Just because both versions were available from release date doesn't mean anything. Sgt. Pepper for example, was recorded and mixed for mono by the band and the subsequent stereo mix was done after the fact. The 'true' version of the album, the way it was intended by the band, was mono.

I thought I had read the same thing about TSMR but I'm not certain of that.

I think you are confusing things between recording and mixing.

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
His Majesty
It wasn't recorded in mono.

Weren't the mono and stereo versions availale from release date?

I know a lot of folks prefer mono, but certain details which are present in the stereo mix gets lost in mono mix. I'd love for there to be a Their Satanic Majesties Request in surround sound. All those overdubs spread about the room.

Are you certain of this? Just because both versions were available from release date doesn't mean anything. Sgt. Pepper for example, was recorded and mixed for mono by the band and the subsequent stereo mix was done after the fact. The 'true' version of the album, the way it was intended by the band, was mono.

I thought I had read the same thing about TSMR but I'm not certain of that.

I think you are confusing things between recording and mixing.

I could be confusing the two but I don't believe I am...I'm just wondering if you're certain that the Stones original intention was to have this as a stereo release? If it was, then they would appear to have been 'ahead' of the Beatles as far as recording and mixing the stereo format was concerned.

I question that though because as we've discussed on the "Let's Talk Rare Stones Vinyl" thread, the original mono DECCA release was true mono, and then sometime later they released the mono as a Stereo folddown, which is still inexplicable as to why.

If they had originally mixed and intended this for stereo, then I don't think we'd actually have an original made for mono version.

I don't know this for sure though, which is why I was asking the question. Do you have a source, or does anyone else know for sure? I'm positive I've read that the mono mix was the original intended recording/mix. I'm just not positive where I read it, or if in fact that is true.

Stereo mix sure seems to have been the goal imho. Just based on the trippy time period and theme. LSD goes better with stereo if I remember correctly..lol

I'm with you His Majesty on the surround sound thoughts. That would take the theme to even more mystical and psychedelic places. I read somewhere they were all tripping for the photo shoot that was used for the cover.

I'm glad it was just a short phase for the Stones. The Grateful Dead carried the torch for a while longer and it kinda worked for them. peace

Quote
Naturalust
Stereo mix sure seems to have been the goal imho. Just based on the trippy time period and theme. LSD goes better with stereo if I remember correctly..lol

I'm with you His Majesty on the surround sound thoughts. That would take the theme to even more mystical and psychedelic places. I read somewhere they were all tripping for the photo shoot that was used for the cover.

I'm glad it was just a short phase for the Stones. The Grateful Dead carried the torch for a while longer and it kinda worked for them. peace

For the record, I'd also love a 5.1 on it if it were possible to do really good job!

Drop See What Happens and On With The Show.

Add We Love you, Dandelion, and Child Of The Moon

Instant Rolling Stones classic pop album.

Quote
DiscoVolante
This is mine:

She's A Rainbow
2000 Light Years From Home

Thank god, they never walked down this path again.

Amen.

[thepowergoats.com]

I have it in 5.1. I don't know how these things are done unless it was a kludge. You figure that you would have to have authorized access to the original master tapes. I haven't really listend to it much but if you search for it in the aether you should be able to find it.

Also, 5.1 surround sound has reduced fidelity on the side/center channels. 5.1 surround sound itself is a kludge.

As far as mono vs. stereo goes, I am pretty sure that by early 1966 the whole world had gone stereo. Both Sgt. Peppers's and TSMR had to have been mixed for stereo by design in my opinion.

I love the innocent Beatles/Sones 1966-67 flower child phase. It was so fleeting and also must have been so much fun. All so space-age and trippy.

Quote
MileHigh
Both Sgt. Peppers's and TSMR had to have been mixed for stereo by design in my opinion.

It may seem a logical conclusion but the fact is that the Beatles didn't do anything for Stereo 'by design' until Abbey Road...this is well known and confirmed by the Beatles themselves.

What we're unsure of, is TSMR....it just seems odd that the Rolling Stones were ahead of the Beatles on this, but that might in fact be the case.

If it were though, it's just weird to me, that there is a 'true mono' version of this available, as well as a stereo folddown version.

If it were 'made' for stereo in the first place, I wouldn't expect a completely separate mono version AND a folddown. It doesn't make sense.

This doesn't answer the debate but is an interesting review of a CD bootleg of the album TSMR from the early 2000's. This is for the 'folddown' version of the album as well, not the true mono mix.

Here is the link:

[www.allmusic.com]

and here is the review, making the case for mono, much in the way the liner notes in the Beatles MONO Box does:

Review

by Bruce Eder

What is arguably the worst album the Rolling Stones did during the 1960s has suddenly been transformed into one of the best bootleg releases ever, its reputation salvaged and its songs transformed into superb, punky psychedelia, and it's all because of the use of the mono mix (virtually unheard by anyone outside of England) and a new transfer that runs circles around the late-'80s ABKCO stereo CD edition. Their Satanic Majesties Request has always been disliked by fans, who perceived it as the Rolling Stones trying to emulate the Beatles during the latter's psychedelic phase, and generally not sounding terribly good. The mono mix fixes all of that and then some -- indeed, all of a sudden, the album sounds great, and is great. The rhythm instruments are upfront and solid, and from the opening bars of "Sing This All Together" through the punchy break on "In Another Land" to the extended jam on "Sing This All Together (See What Happened)" (as it's printed here), this sounds like the Stones, pounding away hard and heavy, and scarcely like the Beatles at all. As expected, "2000 Man" is the highlight, with a crunchy guitar break that's right up close and personal, along with Jagger's vocals over it and Charlie Watts kicking the hell out of his kit while the organ twists little Arabesques around all of them; not far behind in terms of allure, amazingly enough, is "Sing This All Together (See What Happened)" -- the horns sound much more integrated into the texture of the track and a lot more dissonant, the Mellotron is more upfront in the mix, holding the piece together much better at the end, and the tom-toms and kettle drums are practically in your lap, while Keith Richards' guitar, doing strange psychedelic slides in the opening or playing a crunchy rhythm accompaniment to the horns, comes off as a true rock virtuoso performance. The rest of the album pretty much is elevated to a similar degree -- oddly enough, only "She's a Rainbow" isn't transformed radically -- and it's all more worth hearing than it's been in decades. The original LP has been augmented here by the presence of "Child of the Moon" in its original, thundering mono mix; "We Love You" and "Dandelion" in similar perfect monaural; and rough mixes of "In Another Land," "She's a Rainbow," "2000 Light Years From Home," and "The Lantern"; plus a rehearsal for the instrumental portion of the refrain on "2000 Man" (with lots of crunchy guitar), and two session outtakes featuring piano and acoustic guitar and organ and acoustic guitar, respectively.

OK...actually found something on the stonesondecca.com site...I think I remember this from being posted on the Rare Stones Vinyl thread as well:

[www.stonesondecca.com]

and here is the interesting part...although we still don't definitively know from this whether in fact the Stones original intention for this was mono:


The mono LP of Satanic is existing in two different versions. The original master tape was mixed two times, the first one was used for mono records only and the second one was used both for mono and stereo records. The two mixes used for pressing mono records can be identified by the matrix number

The first mix that was used on mono records has the following matrix number:

ARL-8126-1P on side one and ARL-8127-P1 on side two

The second mix that was used on later mono records and on all stereo records has:

Mono: ARL-8126-T2-2K for side one and ARL-8127-T2-2K for side two

Stereo: ZAL-8126-T2-5K for side one and ZAL-8127-T2-5K for side two

The last two digits may change from one record to another, the letter is identifying the person who cut the original Master Laquer, also called acetate. The last number before the letter indicates how many times Mr K has recut a new Master Laquer. The key indicator on Satanic is the T2. Decca used to identify a new mix by adding the code T2 and Satanic is the only LP that has been cut and pressed from two different mixes and where it is possible to confirm this through the matrix numbers. This way of working was common on 7” single records, they had T1 indicated that it was Take 1 of the title. If the producer rejected the take he would remix the track and then it become Take 2.

A LP that do not have the T2 in the full matrix numbers is a true mono mix. If the LP has the T2 code, then it is basically a stereo mix that has been folded down to one channel for mono sound. You can actually hear the difference in between a “non T2” true mono pressing and a T2 stereo fold down to mono pressing. Take the song “The Lantern” for example, there is a bell tolling in the beginning of the song:

A true mono record has the bell tolling three times befor the music starts (matrix ARL-8127-??)

A fold down from stereo to mono AND a real stereo LP has the bell tolling two times before the music starts. (matrix ARL or ZAL-8127-T2-??)

There may also be other differences on the sound.

Here is another great review of the MONO mix version...I'm beginning to feel a little like ProudMary in the early days of the SuperHeavy thread!

[whitetrashsoul.blogspot.ca]

Wednesday, February 3, 2010




The Rolling Stones - Their Satanic Majesties Request Mono Edition (Bootleg CD)




Ok let me set myself clear...I @#$%&' HATE PSYCHEDELIA! I mean it man - as Johnny Rotten used to say! With a few exceptions to what most of the world refers to as "psychedelic" I'm all the way against it! If are psychedelic (which they are...) the 13th Floor Elevators, i adore them. If are psychedelia the Chocolate Watchband, the Syd Barrett's Pink Floyd (and ONLY with Syd Genius on the band,OK?) or some Nuggets 7inch singles, I'm in! But unfortunately, psychedelia aren't these things. I'm very bored to explain why i hate so many things under this tag but i think it's obvious. I hate Hippies, i hate San Francisco and most of the bands there (lightning exceptions are the Flamin' Groovies and the Charlatans but these lads weren't "IN" between the hippie dictatorship of the era!) and yes Grace Slick was a hell of a chick but it was too grubby for my tastes!
The one and only psychedelic masterpiece ever to this one track mind blogger is "Their Satanic Majesties Request" by the Rolling Stones! Yes, an album that the Stones themselves @#$%&' hate! OK, we knew that they're (now) morons but they were also THEE BEST ROCK N ROLL BAND and for a magical reason (sold their soul to the devil...?-don't know i really can't explain it) what they created between their first album and "Goat's Head Soup" is undeniably hot blooded, raw, manic, sex-setional at every sense music!
I'm sure when they cut it, all they have in their minds was a good reason to swallow tons of drugs and that's a good excuse of course and at the same time to make laugh of the trend, cash-in for their pockets and return a few months later to their well known rock n' roll raunchy blues amalgam!
If we must be honest to ourselves, the Stones were psychedelic before this. Tracks like "Have You Seen Your Mother Baby", "Paint It Black", "Child of the Moon", "Dandelion", "We Love You" (Lennon and Maca did the backing vocals here!) and "Please Go Home" are perfect examples to what psychedelic music is-hands down!
I RESPECT the Beatles more than you can imagine but "Sgt. Pepper" was a fanfare without reason! Anyway, this boot here is the shit in glorious MONO! Adds the "We Love You"/"Dandelion" single with the original 7inch mix and some more rough mono mixes and rehearsals. I believe that this is the ultimate edition of the record and forget all the new "expanded and remastered" treatments that saw the light of day until today!
This is the BADDEST TRIP you might confront, enjoy it man!

PS: "Citadel" has the BEST garage riff ever produced by human hands!

This MASTERPIECE uploaded by [collectors-only.blogspot.com]
Thank you man!

Treacle:

It sounds like you are much more knowledgable than me, but let just mention what I always thought would have made sense.

Stereo LPs came out in the 1950s, or possibly even from 1948 when the LP was introduced. A stereo record will play back in mono on a mono record player. That was always the case. It simply took a long time for the adoption of the technlogy on the record player/home console side. Those were the "glacier" years for technological adoption. If you were listening in stereo in the 1950s, you were an "audiophile."

When you listen to Rubber Soul, from my perspective you can hear how the Beatles were a bit "over excited" with stereo, because on many songs the volcals are exlusively on one channel and it sounds like you can hear a distant microphone pick-up on the opposite channel. Again, it sounds to me like Rubber Soul was produced in stereo from the ground up.

So, for years and years people were buying stereo records and listening to a "mono mix" that was done by the mono cartridge in the record player itself. At the same time the record companies were still printing true mono records. What I always thought is that it was simply a marketing decision to maximize sales. Certainly some people with mono record players might shy away from buying stereo records because they percieved that they had to buy mono records for their mono equipment.

Honestly, it makes me suspicious of this whole concept of a "separate mono mix." I always thought that the record companies simply added the two stereo tracks togeteher to make a mono track, the folddwn. They didn't actually remix records for mono. Again, that's my impression. I am willing to bet that the vast majority of stereo records were pressed as mono records this way. They simply did what the mono cartridge did in the record player. Why spend the money in studio time and engineering time? It just doesn't make sense to me.

On the other had, the record companies did a lot of work going the other way - taking mono source material and doing all sorts of equalization and phasing tricks to create pseudo stereo. This was mostly during the second half of the 1960s. I normally hate that. Just like I hate when someone presses the "3D" button on some sound card software. It's horrible. It would be an interesting read online to learn the history about that. I am pretty sure that thousands and thousands of records were rereleased in pseudo stereo from the original mono master mix.

Anyway, going back to the Beatles and Stones, and such. I suppose that there may have been true mono mixes for release from the original 4, 8, or 16-track material. However, I am suspicious that some of these mono released were just left + right, with nothing changed at all. Call me a cynic.

Then you get the human factor coming into play. If you have a preconception that you are about to hear an "amazing true mono mix" of an album, then that's what you are going to hear. You might be surprised at how easy it is to skew your perception of touch, sight, sound, etc. The senses are highly subjective and what looks white can later look black.

Anyway, just my gut feel. Like I said, it would be a fun thing to research online and I may do it one day soon.

MileHigh

Thanks MileHigh...and I've waaaaaaaaaay far from being knowledgeable in these sorts of matters.

I purchased the Beatles Mono box when it first came out and it almost brings tears to ones eyes, when you hear how good it sounds when compared to the stereo versions.

What you described may have happened for some bands, but the material in the Mono Box goes to the extreme in explaining that the Beatles recorded and mixed EVERYTHING in mono...that is the way they did it. It was then handed over to engineers to fiddle with it to create the stereo version. The mono version was the priority for the Beatles, and until Abbey Road, then weren't involved at all in the Stereo version.

I believe the situation was the same for the Stones up to around Let It Bleed. I've read the 'true' version of this recording is mono, and the engineers subsequently created the stereo version from the mono. I'm less sure about the Stones though. I read something a few years that told me as much, but I don't recall the source so I can't really say that is definitive.

It just seems highly likely that during the 60's, the Beatles were a bit more on the 'cutting edge' with regards to the recording side of things, so I would be surprised if the Stones ventured into full albums in original stereo even before the Beatles did.

I know what you're saying about the 'logic' around just recording in stereo and doing 'folddowns' to mono, however it is fairly well documented that wasn't the case for either the Beatles and Stones up through the mid-sixties, and for the Beatles at least, until 1969.

If you haven't heard the Beatles Mono Box you really should as it is a treat...doing a side-by-side you can really hear the power of the mono versions for a lot of the songs, it makes sense to me that these more powerful versions are the way the band intended it to be heard.

I only hope that if we get the entire sixties catalogue yet again, that we get the original mono mixes of the albums, (not the folddowns).

That would be worth buying the material again!

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
His Majesty
It wasn't recorded in mono.

Weren't the mono and stereo versions availale from release date?

I know a lot of folks prefer mono, but certain details which are present in the stereo mix gets lost in mono mix. I'd love for there to be a Their Satanic Majesties Request in surround sound. All those overdubs spread about the room.

Are you certain of this? Just because both versions were available from release date doesn't mean anything. Sgt. Pepper for example, was recorded and mixed for mono by the band and the subsequent stereo mix was done after the fact. The 'true' version of the album, the way it was intended by the band, was mono.

I thought I had read the same thing about TSMR but I'm not certain of that.

I think you are confusing things between recording and mixing.

I could be confusing the two but I don't believe I am...I'm just wondering if you're certain that the Stones original intention was to have this as a stereo release? If it was, then they would appear to have been 'ahead' of the Beatles as far as recording and mixing the stereo format was concerned.

I question that though because as we've discussed on the "Let's Talk Rare Stones Vinyl" thread, the original mono DECCA release was true mono, and then sometime later they released the mono as a Stereo folddown, which is still inexplicable as to why.

If they had originally mixed and intended this for stereo, then I don't think we'd actually have an original made for mono version.

I don't know this for sure though, which is why I was asking the question. Do you have a source, or does anyone else know for sure? I'm positive I've read that the mono mix was the original intended recording/mix. I'm just not positive where I read it, or if in fact that is true.

Both mono and stereo releases were expected in 1967 and were it recorded in mono, we wouldn't have the choice of a stereo mix. Multitrack recording is not mono recording, even if they had a rough mono mix in their headphones during the sessions.

Btw... Hendrix recorded Axis: Bold As Love with stereo in mind, specific effects were worked out around stereo, the first album to feature stereo phasing for example, yet a lot of folks go crazy over mono versions of that album.

Artistic intention doesn't count for much when the listeners preference clashes with it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-01 05:42 by His Majesty.