I made a little statistic on a boring and dark day – it is raining all day and all night – somewhere in the “East part”. I counted 106 Stones Concerts In Germany 1965-2006.

Corrections and comments are very welcome!

Alphabetically:

Berlin 1965, 1970, 1973, 1976, 1982, 1990 3x, 1995, 1998 2x,
2003, 2006 = 13
Bremen 1967 2x, 1976, 1998 = 4
Cologne 1967 2x, 1970, 1973 2x, 1976 2x, 1982 2x, 1990 2x,
1995, 1999, 2006 = 14
Dortmund 1967, 1976 = 2
Dusseldorf 1998 = 1
Essen 1965 2x, 1970, 1973 3x = 6
Frankfurt 1970 2x, 1973 2x, 1976 2x, 1982 3x, 1990 2x = 11
Gelsenkirchen 1990, 1998 = 2
Hamburg 1965 2x, 1967 2x, 1970, 1973 2x, 1998, 2003 = 9
Hanover 1982 2x, 1990 2x, 1995, 1998, 2003, 2006 = 8
Hockenheim 1995, 2003 (sort of a Mannheim suburb, so they are put
together in the „charts“ below) = 2 (5)
Kiel 1976 = 1
Leipzig 1995, 1998, 2003 = 3
Mannheim 1973, 1995, 1998 (see Hockenheim) = 3 (5)
Munich 1965 2x, 1973 2x, 1976 2x, 1982 2x, 1990 2x, 1995,
1998, 2003 3x, 2006 = 16
Munster 1965 2x, 1976 2x = 4
Nuremberg 1998 = 1
Oberhausen 2003 = 1
Schuttorf festival site 1995 = 1
Stuttgart 1970, 1976, 1999, 2006 = 4
Wolfsburg 1995 = 1

= 106

The „Top Ten (or Twelve)“:

1. Munich (16)
2. Cologne (14)
3. Berlin (13)
4. Frankfurt (11)
5. Hamburg (9)
6. Hanover (8)
7. Essen (6)
8. Mannheim/ Hockenheim (5)
9. Munster (4)
Bremen (4)
Stuttgart (4)
10. Leipzig (3)

By the way:

- All towns in the "Top 10" have more than 500.000 inhabitants, except for Munster and Mannheim. The top 5 consists of - interesting but no real surprise - the five biggest towns with population 650.000 (Frankfurt) up to 3.400.000 (Berlin).

[de.wikipedia.org]


- The only missing towns with more than 500.000 inhabitants are Dresden and Duisburg. Actually only Dresden really counts because Duisburg is located in the Ruhr area (near Essen, Dortmund, Gelsenkirchen) where multiple shows took place over the years. Just five shows since 1990 (2x East Berlin 1990, 3x Leipzig) took place in East Germany (but 42 in the former West part – incl. West Berlin – in the same time – nearly nine as much, although only five as much people live there!).
That means the Stones mainly go to where the big money is ;-) No big surprise, especially if you look to the real East part of Europe with almost no concerts at all. So thinking logically, a big show in Dresden and maybe hall concerts in Rostock (the Ostseestadion is also possible, it was renovated in 2001 and holds just 30.000 people) and Magdeburg seem (more or less) possible for 2007. All three places are quite far away (ca/ more than 100 km) from the next ever played Stones venue (Dresden – Leipzig; Magdeburg – usually Hanover/Berlin, exception was Wolfsburg in 1995; Rostock – Hamburg/Berlin). These hypothetical shows would be most probably very well selling (especially compared with the disaster in too much visited towns like Munich and Berlin this year) and a great gift to the forgotten East German fans. Okay, we will see what happens before X-mas. I hope Mr Cohl reads this thread ;-)

Another question is: is there a country in the world except the USA with more shows within the last 40 years? Maybe just the UK can stay in the bidding.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-04 14:44 by beast of burgk.

They've played more shows, at home, in the UK,
than any other country.

Okay, if you count the Houndreds of early 1962-64 shows. But from 1965 onwards there were less concerts in Britain than in Germany I think.

Its the east of Germany now, not East Germany. Consider that Berlin is central to the old East and east and west fans can meet there. Then Katowiec in Poland.

They pulled Leipzig this time, I heard 16000 tickets sold out of 60000. Interesting to see if they reschedule this time.

It makes no difference if you call it "East Germany" or "east part" I think.

Yeah, agree with Berlin, but many people have to drive more than 150-200 km to get to the next show. That's more than in the West. If the wall was still there, the band would probably only have sold half of the tickets for Olympic stadium this year.

The Leipzig stadium holds 45.000 by the way. I don't know where you got that information, but it could be true (see booking of Guns'n'Roses as "big" opening act, then cancelation). Both regions are too much visited, many other regions totally untouched. If Cohl schedules the 07 tour similar to the current North America fall tour (many concerts in "virgin" or seldom visited regions), then we'll have probably some surprises soon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-04 14:20 by beast of burgk.

beast of burgk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, if you count the Houndreds of early 1962-64
> shows. But from 1965 onwards there were less
> concerts in Britain than in Germany I think.


1966 - 23
1968 - 2 (NME Pollwinners & R&R Circus - although neither was a full length show. However the 1st one wasnt televised and the 2nd one was a Stones show and not merely a TV guest appearance, so it kinda counts..)
1969 - 5
1971 - 15
1973 - 12
1976 - 13
1982 - 9
1986 - 1
1990 - 10
1995 - 5
1999 - 5
2003 - 9
2006 - 5

Total UK shows since 1966 - 114

sounds a reasonable amount, but quite paltry when you realise that from 2002 - 2006 (2 tours) they'll have actually played more than that amount in North America alone

since '82, of the 35 UK shows, 21 have taken place in Greater London - including all four theatre/club shows.

Of the other 14, theyve played four in Glasgow, three each in Sheffield and Manchester, two in Cardiff and one each in Newcastle and Edinburgh



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-04 14:31 by Gazza.

The GR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its the east of Germany now, not East Germany.
> Consider that Berlin is central to the old East
> and east and west fans can meet there. Then
> Katowiec in Poland.
>
> They pulled Leipzig this time, I heard 16000
> tickets sold out of 60000. Interesting to see if
> they reschedule this time.


What does Katowice (Chorzow) have to do with Germany? It is more than 300 km from the German border. But it is intersting enough that there was - apart from the two absurd 1967 shows in Warsaw, where all real fans were excluded - just one concert in Poland to date; Chorzow 1998. What does this mean? Is Poland really so poor or "no Stones country", just like Italy appears to be (pretty high population, but few Stones concerts).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-04 15:14 by beast of burgk.

If there is a 2007 tour in europe I think,there will be 3 or 4 gigs in germany.
i would suggest the following:

Dresden---stadium or rostock---Ostseestadion

Dortmund---Westfalenhalle

Kiel---ostseehalle

one in the south---Karlsruhe or Freiburg

Interesting statistics, thanks!

I didn't realize until now that they never played the UK in 1970... but I guess December '69 and March '71 made up real well for that.

Hello beats of burk,
thank you very much for your good work, very interesting statistic!

Yes, interesting list indeed.

...and now to the cancelled shows^^

which country had the most "no-shows"?
is it spain?

Spain (4), then Germany (3), right?

Of course 2006.

Havo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If there is a 2007 tour in europe I think,there
> will be 3 or 4 gigs in germany.
> i would suggest the following:
>
> Dresden---stadium or rostock---Ostseestadion
>
> Dortmund---Westfalenhalle
>
> Kiel---ostseehalle
>
> one in the south---Karlsruhe or Freiburg


In Germany I think following is possible next year, that means would sell out:

- Hamburg (stadium) or Rostock (stadium) or halls in both cities

- Dresden (Festwiese/ stadium-like-field, the site where Robbie Willams sold 150.000 tix some weeks ago, the two real stadiums are in horrible condition, one will not renovated before 2008 or so) or hall in Leipzig

- hall concert in Magdeburg or Erfurt

- stadium in Karlsruhe or Frankfurt

- hall in Ruhr area (yes, why not Dortmund)

plus two, three more arenas (in West Germany)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-04 22:21 by beast of burgk.

open-g Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, interesting list indeed.
>
> ...and now to the cancelled shows^^
>
> which country had the most "no-shows"?
> is it spain?


All in all I think Spain. There was a cancelled show in 1998 too, which never was rescheduled.

beast of burgk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The GR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Its the east of Germany now, not East Germany.
> > Consider that Berlin is central to the old East
> > and east and west fans can meet there. Then
> > Katowiec in Poland.
> >
> > They pulled Leipzig this time, I heard 16000
> > tickets sold out of 60000. Interesting to see
> if
> > they reschedule this time.
>
>
> What does Katowice (Chorzow) have to do with
> Germany? It is more than 300 km from the German
> border. But it is intersting enough that there was
> - apart from the two absurd 1967 shows in Warsaw,
> where all real fans were excluded - just one
> concert in Poland to date; Chorzow 1998. What does
> this mean? Is Poland really so poor or "no Stones
> country", just like Italy appears to be (pretty
> high population, but few Stones concerts).

it's more than amazing that those gigs happened in Warsaw 1967 if you ocnsider what time it was for Poland. Fans where INSIDE, but first front rows were reserved for communistic party, which of course was ridicolous, but it is the way it was back in those days.

Than it was totally not possible to come here and play a gig FOR VERY LONG TIME. they were plans to play PL in 1973 on Euro tour but CCPR goverment didn't allow them to come. 1990 - 1995 - 1998 - 1999 - 2003 - 2006 where the only possible dates for them to come and play.

It happened in 1998. Mick, after the show said that he is looking forward to coming back to PL in 1999 but it didn't happen. Than before European licks tour both Mick & Ronnie were talking about possible show in Poland and it was even rumoured to happen, but never did. than in 2006 the show was planned but had to be cancelled.

Poland is also not the big market in Europe if you compare it to for example Germany or Italy. that's it.

PiotrRSpl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> beast of burgk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The GR Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Its the east of Germany now, not East Germany.
>
> > > Consider that Berlin is central to the old
> East
> > > and east and west fans can meet there. Then
> > > Katowiec in Poland.
> > >
> > > They pulled Leipzig this time, I heard 16000
> > > tickets sold out of 60000. Interesting to
> see
> > if
> > > they reschedule this time.
> >
> >
> > What does Katowice (Chorzow) have to do with
> > Germany? It is more than 300 km from the German
> > border. But it is intersting enough that there
> was
> > - apart from the two absurd 1967 shows in
> Warsaw,
> > where all real fans were excluded - just one
> > concert in Poland to date; Chorzow 1998. What
> does
> > this mean? Is Poland really so poor or "no
> Stones
> > country", just like Italy appears to be (pretty
> > high population, but few Stones concerts).
>
> it's more than amazing that those gigs happened in
> Warsaw 1967 if you ocnsider what time it was for
> Poland. Fans where INSIDE, but first front rows
> were reserved for communistic party, which of
> course was ridicolous, but it is the way it was
> back in those days.
>
> Than it was totally not possible to come here and
> play a gig FOR VERY LONG TIME. they were plans to
> play PL in 1973 on Euro tour but CCPR goverment
> didn't allow them to come. 1990 - 1995 - 1998 -
> 1999 - 2003 - 2006 where the only possible dates
> for them to come and play.
>
> It happened in 1998. Mick, after the show said
> that he is looking forward to coming back to PL in
> 1999 but it didn't happen. Than before European
> licks tour both Mick & Ronnie were talking about
> possible show in Poland and it was even rumoured
> to happen, but never did. than in 2006 the show
> was planned but had to be cancelled.
>
> Poland is also not the big market in Europe if you
> compare it to for example Germany or Italy. that's
> it.

Piotr, many thanks for the new and correcting information. I wish you guys good look that Warsaw will happen in 2007 (I really think so!). They could do some arena shows elsewhere (Krakow?), but this is surely wishfull thinking. If they did things like this all over Europe there had to be 70 shows.

beast of burgk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a cancelled show in 1998 too, which never was rescheduled.

Two actually, Bilbao and Gijon.

Beast of..... said:

- hall in Ruhr area (yes, why not Dortmund)

------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------

- hall (stadion-hall) will be LTU Arena Düsseldorf (45.000) in 2007

There are "connections (share holding)" between "getgo" and "ticketmaster" and "LTU Arena"

Grüsse
Gerhard

I don't think so; Dusseldorf is simply too close to Cologne, where a "big" show has been this year.

RollingStonesFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spain (4), then Germany (3), right?
>
> Of course 2006.


UK had 3 postponed in 1990, all four in 1998 rescheduled to 1999, and one twickenham postponed in 2003 - so eight in all.

The shows announced for Dublin in both 1990 and 2006 were both cancelled, although only the 1990 show actually had tickets put on sale. Only the 2003 shows went ahead.

LieB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting statistics, thanks!
>
> I didn't realize until now that they never played
> the UK in 1970... but I guess December '69 and
> March '71 made up real well for that.


Not really - the four December shows in 1969 took place in two ballrooms in London. The total amount of people who saw those shows would barely have been more than 7 or 8,000

The 1971 tour wouldnt have been seen by more than 25-30,000 people in total. The show theyre playing tonight in Montana will be seen by almost as many people as that!

Yes it would be interesting to know how many sold tickets hide behind these abstract numbers - 106 shows in Germany - a few more in UK. But I think it's hard to find out.

probably more people have seen them in Germany. Theyve played many more indoor shows in Britain than in Germany in that time - including a lot of theatre shows

However, the size of the crowd at Hyde Park in 1969 and at Knebworth in 1976 would probably make up for a lot of the difference in attendance figures

PiotrRSpl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Than it was totally not possible to come here and
> play a gig FOR VERY LONG TIME. they were plans to
> play PL in 1973 on Euro tour but CCPR goverment
> didn't allow them to come. 1990 - 1995 - 1998 -
> 1999 - 2003 - 2006 where the only possible dates
> for them to come and play.
>
> It happened in 1998. Mick, after the show said
> that he is looking forward to coming back to PL in
> 1999 but it didn't happen. Than before European
> licks tour both Mick & Ronnie were talking about
> possible show in Poland and it was even rumoured
> to happen, but never did. than in 2006 the show
> was planned but had to be cancelled.
>

Wow! I've never heard about plans to play in Poland in 1973. How close was it? I remember tough that The Stones were willing to play in 1990 in Gdansk and meet with Lech Walesa, but it never happened. Then in 1995 there was roumored show but due to the fact that ticket prices would be too high for Polish market it was never finalised. In 2003 gig in Poland was almost confirmed. There was roumoured date and venue (15 July 2003, Sluzew, Warsaw), but for some reason Stones decided to do only one show in Eastern Europe and it was in Czech Rep. Then of course June 2006 which was cancelled due to Keith accident. Poland seems to be quite unlucky with the Stones.

Maybe it's time for a own thread "The Stones and Poland". Would probably be interesting.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> probably more people have seen them in Germany.
> Theyve played many more indoor shows in Britain
> than in Germany in that time - including a lot of
> theatre shows
>
> However, the size of the crowd at Hyde Park in
> 1969 and at Knebworth in 1976 would probably make
> up for a lot of the difference in attendance
> figures



So Germany seems to be the 2nd most visited country in the world - that means where most ticket were sold (except of course the USA)?

Not since 1962 - no. But your discussion is since 1966.

London 1969 christmas concerts:
Saville 2,500 and Lyceum 2,100 (each sold out twice). Source: David Dalton Unauthorized Biography.
Germany: attendance listed by German highly recommendable music magazine Good Times - June/July 06 issue - (www.goodtimes-magazin.de)
1965 63,400 - 1967 41,000 - 1970 58,000 - 1973 84,000 - 1976 146,500 (first time football stadium in Stuttgart) - 1982 (only stadiums/open air except three times Frankfurt Festhalle) 404,000 - 1990 685,000 - 1995 717,000 - 1998/99 (etra European leg in 1999 because of 'tax problems' in England in 1998 plus added venues in countries where they were especially successful) 862,400 - 2003 (including three venue per town concept in Munich) 423,500. 2006 see iorr...

satisfaction2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
[...]
>
> There are "connections (share holding)" between
> "getgo" and "ticketmaster" and "LTU Arena"
>
> Grüsse
> Gerhard

For me, it is realistic that the Stones could play in Düsseldorf in 2007.
LTU Arena isn't too big, capacity about 55.000 (just a bit more than Stuttgart or Cologne, both shows were the best-sold gigs for this tour in Germany), further more, Düsseldorf is in the "Ruhr-area" with many millions of people in a circle of 100km - and always, when they are on tour in Germany, they were in this area!!

My ideas for 2007:

- Fankfurt (Commerzbank-Arena ~50.000) => cancelled show
- Düsseldorf (LTU-Arena ~55.000)
- Nürnberg (Frankenstadion ~45.000) => cancelled show
- Karlsruhe (Wildparkstadion ~30.000) => there were roumors
- Berlin (Waldbühne??? ~20.000) => boahhh!
- Wolfsburg (VW-Arena ~35.000) => Volkswagen-town, was sponsor in 95

Well, let's see, what the time brings!
If I'm right, you all will buy the tickets for me for these concerts, okay?? ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-07 12:16 by RollingStonesFan.

No way for Waldbühne. They wouldn't sell it out by far. They sold 52.000 (!) out of 70.000 for the nearby stadium this year. Berlin is dead for the Stones.

Also, I don't think Dusseldorf 07 will happen. One remember please the half filled Cologne stadium in 99 (months after Dusseldorf and Gelsenkirchen 98).

Wolfsburg is complete nonsense.

Nuremberg will probably not be reschudeled because of even poorer sales than in Berlin or Munich.

Much more likely are - yes - "big" shows in Karlsruhe/ Frankfurt (but not in both cities!), Hamburg and Dresden. Plus - hopefully - 2-3 arena shows.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-07 13:43 by beast of burgk.