BLACK SABBATH UPDATE: WARD OUT, DETROIT DRUMMER IN

2/8/2012

Though it's hardly surprising, reports are circulating that Black Sabbath drummer Bill Ward has been "fired" by Sharon Osbourne, the wife and manager of Sabbath frontman Ozzy Osbourne and the ostensible manager of Sabbath these days. The web site MetalTalk.net reported the move, predicting that "it won't go down well with the Metal community." The site also reports that Osbourne's current drummer Tommy Clufetos -- a Detroit native who's also worked with Mitch Ryder, Ted Nugent, Alice Cooper and Rob Zombie -- will be Ward's replacement. Ward posted a lengthy diatribe online last week about the band offering him an "unsignable" contract, and his bandmates fired back that they intended to continue with or without him. The group is reportedly in England to work on a new album while guitarist Tony Iommi is treated for lymphoma. Sabbath plans to play at the U.K.'s Download festival in June, but other tour plans are on hold pending Iommi's recovery.

how was he fired when ward released a statement last week saying he would not be joining the band until he got a contract to his liking?

anyways blame bill ward himself. he has health issues and rarely finishes a tour anymore and takes forever to lay his parts down in the studio. the contract was offering him less money because they were hiring a session drummer in case bill took too long to record his parts and wouldn't give him his full tour pay until he completed the tour

This is what happens when a bunch of old farts try to milk out the past... contractual problems, healthy issues, greedy managers...

I am sure if, say, The Rolling Stones decides to make the hard core fans' dream come true, and include to the line-up some members of the past, there will be no contractual problems. One happy family; each member will get an equal share, right?

- Doxa

More news on Planet Rock today:

[www.planetrock.com]

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keefriffhard4life
how was he fired when ward released a statement last week saying he would not be joining the band until he got a contract to his liking?

He was holding out for a better contract and they said FU, we'll just get somebody else. That's getting fired.

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tatters

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keefriffhard4life
how was he fired when ward released a statement last week saying he would not be joining the band until he got a contract to his liking?

He was holding out for a better contract and they said FU, we'll just get somebody else. That's getting fired.

umm not its not. you can't be fired from nothing. since bill ward didn't sign the contract he was not a participating member. if i'm offered a job and refuse the salary and then they move on i'm not fired

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keefriffhard4life

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tatters

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keefriffhard4life
how was he fired when ward released a statement last week saying he would not be joining the band until he got a contract to his liking?

He was holding out for a better contract and they said FU, we'll just get somebody else. That's getting fired.

umm not its not. you can't be fired from nothing. since bill ward didn't sign the contract he was not a participating member. if i'm offered a job and refuse the salary and then they move on i'm not fired

He was hired to participate in the Black Sabbath reunion. I'm pretty sure that was him standing there with the other three getting his picture taken by our very own esteemed hbwriter. It's like if you called up your boss and said "Boss, I've decided I'm not coming in to work today unless you give me a raise," and your Boss said, "You just stay home and take it easy. I'll call in a temp." There's lots of ways to fire someone without saying, "You're fired!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-09 15:48 by tatters.

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tatters

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keefriffhard4life

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keefriffhard4life
how was he fired when ward released a statement last week saying he would not be joining the band until he got a contract to his liking?

He was holding out for a better contract and they said FU, we'll just get somebody else. That's getting fired.

umm not its not. you can't be fired from nothing. since bill ward didn't sign the contract he was not a participating member. if i'm offered a job and refuse the salary and then they move on i'm not fired

He was hired to participate in the Black Sabbath reunion. I'm pretty sure that was him standing there with the other three getting his picture taken by our very own esteemed hbwriter. It's like if you called up your boss and said "Boss, I've decided I'm not coming in to work today unless you give me a raise," and your Boss said, "You just stay home and take it easy. I'll call in a temp." There's lots of ways to fire someone without saying, "You're fired!"

1. He wasn't "hired" if he didn't sign a contract & has chosen not to participate until he gets a contract to his liking

2. The other three members say that they will continue, but that the "door is open"

3. Sharon Osbourne is NOT the manager of Black Sabbath, and is thus incapable of firing any of the members.

This is worth printing out here from Svartmer's link above: peace
===================================================================
Bill's son launches staunch defence of his father

In a post on Twitter Ozzy's wife denied rumours that she had been involved in the contract dispute which is currently threatening to sideline Bill Ward from the Black Sabbath reunion.



She said: "I am not in any position to hire or fire anyone in Black Sabbath. I don’t manage the band, I manage my husband”.


Meanwhile, Bill's son Aron has taken to Facebook to defend his father's current stance:


"The press is spinning this sh*tstorm to read as if my dad has quit. This is not true. The guys know that. That's why they said the door is ALWAYS open.


"My dad hasn't 'declined' playing with Black Sabbath or 'threatened' to pull out of this reunion. As he stated, his bags are packed and he's ready to go. He says it loud and clear, he definitely wants to play on the album and he definitely wants to tour.


"Up 'till about three weeks ago, he was working extremely hard and close with the other three on this album/reunion tour. He was in very good spirits and sounded excited to be writing with Tony, Geezer and Ozzy again.


"'Don't be so greedy': he is by no means greedy, man. If he was, he would have settled with whatever contract given him. It's kind of obvious someone else is greedy. Wake up. He lives in a modest home in Southern California. Pays rent like the rest of us. In case you're still blind, look at it this way — sadly, the current 'Sabbath' statement reads as if someone would rather see the remaining members play in front of thousands of disappointed, confused and resentful fans then give my dad a dignified agreement. Additionally, the record sales will be severely affected because it isn't the promised original lineup. All this because of someone's inability to respect him as the committed founding member he is. This has derailed the fans' hopes of seeing the original lineup and strongly divided the fans. What a way to f**k up such a powerful, influential and inspirational legacy for the rest of time.


"To Terry ([a.k.a. Geezer] my godfather), Ozzy (my friend when I was little) and Tony (towering hero), I hope that you will listen to your fans. They want all of you together. As YOU are Black Sabbath, so is my Dad. I hope you guys can work it out."

read the inside news instead.
But is is sad. I cannot imagine this. I saw the original line up in 2005 and maybe that was the last time...

back to listen to my japan swirl

[www.black-sabbath.com]

"we know it's a bit late but we hope you don't mind if we stay"

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-09 19:04 by andrewt.

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keefriffhard4life

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tatters

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keefriffhard4life
how was he fired when ward released a statement last week saying he would not be joining the band until he got a contract to his liking?

He was holding out for a better contract and they said FU, we'll just get somebody else. That's getting fired.

umm not its not. you can't be fired from nothing. since bill ward didn't sign the contract he was not a participating member. if i'm offered a job and refuse the salary and then they move on i'm not fired

Exactly. That's why the word fired was in quotation marks in the original article. I guess some people weren't paying attention

Their are lot's of ways to say you're fired.

As I recall, Ward held up the process the last time 'Sabbath reunited, for precisely the same reasons.

Kinda hard to imagine Bill Ward not being in the group. Once OZZY left (or was fired for excessive dope eating) I stopped listening to both acts. The first time the original members re-united, we were ready to see them again.

Without Bill Ward on drums, it will be another iteration I'll probably pass on. The guys drumming was the true backbone of that band. A truly underrated musician.

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tkl7

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tatters

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keefriffhard4life

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keefriffhard4life
how was he fired when ward released a statement last week saying he would not be joining the band until he got a contract to his liking?

He was holding out for a better contract and they said FU, we'll just get somebody else. That's getting fired.

umm not its not. you can't be fired from nothing. since bill ward didn't sign the contract he was not a participating member. if i'm offered a job and refuse the salary and then they move on i'm not fired

He was hired to participate in the Black Sabbath reunion. I'm pretty sure that was him standing there with the other three getting his picture taken by our very own esteemed hbwriter. It's like if you called up your boss and said "Boss, I've decided I'm not coming in to work today unless you give me a raise," and your Boss said, "You just stay home and take it easy. I'll call in a temp." There's lots of ways to fire someone without saying, "You're fired!"

1. He wasn't "hired" if he didn't sign a contract & has chosen not to participate until he gets a contract to his liking

I've never had a job where I had to sign a contract before I was considered "hired".

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tatters

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tkl7

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tatters

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keefriffhard4life

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tatters

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keefriffhard4life
how was he fired when ward released a statement last week saying he would not be joining the band until he got a contract to his liking?

He was holding out for a better contract and they said FU, we'll just get somebody else. That's getting fired.

umm not its not. you can't be fired from nothing. since bill ward didn't sign the contract he was not a participating member. if i'm offered a job and refuse the salary and then they move on i'm not fired

He was hired to participate in the Black Sabbath reunion. I'm pretty sure that was him standing there with the other three getting his picture taken by our very own esteemed hbwriter. It's like if you called up your boss and said "Boss, I've decided I'm not coming in to work today unless you give me a raise," and your Boss said, "You just stay home and take it easy. I'll call in a temp." There's lots of ways to fire someone without saying, "You're fired!"

1. He wasn't "hired" if he didn't sign a contract & has chosen not to participate until he gets a contract to his liking

I've never had a job where I had to sign a contract before I was considered "hired".

Are you a professional musician in a band that is reuniting to record a record and tour?

Yeah well my job is a yearly contract that I have to sign before I am considered hired. . .

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whitem8
Yeah well my job is a yearly contract that I have to sign before I am considered hired. . .

mine is something like that too. just because bill ward was at a press announcement does make him a part of anything until his name is on the contract for the album and tour

Okay, then they should do another press conference without him to announce it is not an original Sabbath reunion. bet they wont.

It is quite clear Ward WAS on board for this but someone (no doubt Sharon) has renaged on his money. it is disingenuous for her to say she doesn't Manage Sabbath and can't fire Ward. if she has demanded such a large cut for Ozzy that there is F**k all but a lousy wage left for the drummer.

As someone else pointed out Ozzy got an equal share of all the Sabbath songwriting tho he never wrote the music and Butler wrote most of the lyrics.

Don't forget Sharon destroyed Ozzys first two solo albums 20 odd years after their release by wiping the original bass and drums and having them redone. an act of musical vandalism motivated by a cheap, vindictive desire to stop royalty payments to the original band members.

I was thinking about attending a Sabbath reunion, but all this gives me a good excuse not to.

"The guys drumming was the true backbone of that band"

Imho the drummer is the true backbone of any band. G&R without Adler or Slayer without Lombardo are not as good.

I pity the poor souls who already bought their tix for the shows...

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tkl7

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tkl7

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keefriffhard4life

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tatters

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keefriffhard4life
how was he fired when ward released a statement last week saying he would not be joining the band until he got a contract to his liking?

He was holding out for a better contract and they said FU, we'll just get somebody else. That's getting fired.

umm not its not. you can't be fired from nothing. since bill ward didn't sign the contract he was not a participating member. if i'm offered a job and refuse the salary and then they move on i'm not fired

He was hired to participate in the Black Sabbath reunion. I'm pretty sure that was him standing there with the other three getting his picture taken by our very own esteemed hbwriter. It's like if you called up your boss and said "Boss, I've decided I'm not coming in to work today unless you give me a raise," and your Boss said, "You just stay home and take it easy. I'll call in a temp." There's lots of ways to fire someone without saying, "You're fired!"

1. He wasn't "hired" if he didn't sign a contract & has chosen not to participate until he gets a contract to his liking

I've never had a job where I had to sign a contract before I was considered "hired".

Are you a professional musician in a band that is reuniting to record a record and tour?

I am a pizza delivery boy, but here's the thing: Tour dates were announced and tickets went on sale. People were buying those tickets under the assumption that goods and services were going to be provided by all four original employees of Black Sabbath Inc. As one of the four employees presented to the ticket-buying public at the press conference, Bill had officially been hired to be a part of this touring company. Once you've been hired, you can be fired.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-10 13:58 by tatters.

the whole point is bill ward QUIT he was not fired. he refuses to accept the position of drummer in black sabbath for the offered wage so thats not being fired but quitting.

also geezer and tony have confirmed sharon osbourne is not sabbaths manager

The fact that such "detils" are negotiated at the moment when a lot of concerts are sold out is a shame, no matter who is guilty. I have a ticket and I feel cheated.

Hard to say who is guilty, but the whole band including Ward should take responsibilty for the fact that that they all participated at the press conference where they announced the reunion. It is their fault that they said yes to something like that before the contracts were made. It is certainly not a fault of all the fans who bought the tickets, which would not sell nearly as well if it was not announced as a full reunion including all the original members.

With this in mind I really can not feel sorry for him that he is not satisfied with the contract and that he feels he would be ripped off (which might be true of course and it should not be like that). I will be ripped off and so will thousands of other people. He made a mistake and we shoud pay for it. Sounds like politics to me...

Anyway, I still believe that it will be negotiated and that I will get what I payed for...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-10 16:25 by Happy24.

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tatters

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tkl7

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tkl7

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keefriffhard4life

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tatters

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keefriffhard4life
how was he fired when ward released a statement last week saying he would not be joining the band until he got a contract to his liking?

He was holding out for a better contract and they said FU, we'll just get somebody else. That's getting fired.

umm not its not. you can't be fired from nothing. since bill ward didn't sign the contract he was not a participating member. if i'm offered a job and refuse the salary and then they move on i'm not fired

He was hired to participate in the Black Sabbath reunion. I'm pretty sure that was him standing there with the other three getting his picture taken by our very own esteemed hbwriter. It's like if you called up your boss and said "Boss, I've decided I'm not coming in to work today unless you give me a raise," and your Boss said, "You just stay home and take it easy. I'll call in a temp." There's lots of ways to fire someone without saying, "You're fired!"

1. He wasn't "hired" if he didn't sign a contract & has chosen not to participate until he gets a contract to his liking

I've never had a job where I had to sign a contract before I was considered "hired".

Are you a professional musician in a band that is reuniting to record a record and tour?

I am a pizza delivery boy, but here's the thing: Tour dates were announced and tickets went on sale. People were buying those tickets under the assumption that goods and services were going to be provided by all four original employees of Black Sabbath Inc. As one of the four employees presented to the ticket-buying public at the press conference, Bill had officially been hired to be a part of this touring company. Once you've been hired, you can be fired.

Well, I would have to say that tickets went on sale a bit prematurely!

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Happy24
The fact that such "detils" are negotiated at the moment when a lot of concerts are sold out is a shame, no matter who is guilty. I have a ticket and I feel cheated.

Hard to say who is guilty, but the whole band including Ward should take responsibilty for the fact that that they all participated at the press conference where they announced the reunion. It is their fault that they said yes to something like that before the contracts were made. It is certainly not a fault of all the fans who bought the tickets, which would not sell nearly as well if it was not announced as a full reunion including all the original members.

With this in mind I really can not feel sorry for him that he is not satisfied with the contract and that he feels he would be ripped off (which might be true of course and it should not be like that). I will be ripped off and so will thousands of other people. He made a mistake and we shoud pay for it. Sounds like politics to me...

Anyway, I still believe that it will be negotiated and that I will get what I payed for...

this same thing happened with ward before and was worked out so possibly

The Black Sabbath reunion tour is now Ozzie & Friends.
[consequenceofsound.net]

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tatters
I am a pizza delivery boy, but here's the thing: Tour dates were announced and tickets went on sale. People were buying those tickets under the assumption that goods and services were going to be provided by all four original employees of Black Sabbath Inc. As one of the four employees presented to the ticket-buying public at the press conference, Bill had officially been hired to be a part of this touring company. Once you've been hired, you can be fired.

I didn't get pepperoni with that. I get a free pepperoni pizza.

I didn't get Bill Ward with Black Sabbath. I get a free concert ticket.

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TheDailyBuzzherd

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tatters
I am a pizza delivery boy, but here's the thing: Tour dates were announced and tickets went on sale. People were buying those tickets under the assumption that goods and services were going to be provided by all four original employees of Black Sabbath Inc. As one of the four employees presented to the ticket-buying public at the press conference, Bill had officially been hired to be a part of this touring company. Once you've been hired, you can be fired.

I didn't get pepperoni with that. I get a free pepperoni pizza.

I didn't get Bill Ward with Black Sabbath. I get a free concert ticket.

Now you don't get Tony Iommi either.