--It would be in my Top 7.
Great Rockers and ballads. This Album tops some official stones -ones by far!!!

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Havo
--It would be in my Top 7.
Great Rockers and ballads. This Album tops some official stones -ones by far!!!

Maybe the album wouldn't be quite so good if the RS were the main musicians, if Keith added a couple of derivative open-G rockers a a crooning ballad or two & if Don Was produced it...

Mick turned 50 that year, and I think he was out to prove that he still "had it."

He did.

If it had been a Stones project, I don't think the production would have been as disciplined, and it probably wouldn't have been as good.




Gee, it feels weird saying that.

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loog droog
Mick turned 50 that year, and I think he was out to prove that he still "had it."

He did.

If it had been a Stones project, I don't think the production would have been as disciplined, and it probably wouldn't have been as good.


Gee, it feels weird saying that.

Maybe he'll do something similar when he's 70 (& this time go on tour to promote it).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-13 21:46 by Sleepy City.

great great album, loved it, and still do
ciao
jeroen

Probably would not have had "Handsome Molly" on it. Odd choice. Especially as album closer. In a way that detracts from the intent of that song. Had it been in the middle, it would have been one of the pack, and I think taken more serious. As last song it comes off as a weird joke.
I love the album. What I also like about it, is that it still feels much like a Side 1 and Side 2 album.

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Sleepy City

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Havo
--It would be in my Top 7.
Great Rockers and ballads. This Album tops some official stones -ones by far!!!

Maybe the album wouldn't be quite so good if the RS were the main musicians, if Keith added a couple of derivative open-G rockers a a crooning ballad or two & if Don Was produced it...

great points, have to agree.

For me is'Wandering Spirit' much better then the most of the late Stones CD's
and the best part is; NO Keith lead or backing vocals

With a couple of Keith tracks it would have been a great Stones album. Perhaps Hate It When You Leave.

The actual question would have been: If there had been a Stones album in that year, what would it have been like?
THEN, you could NOT have used the formula "all songs sung by Jagger are by Jagger plus all songs sung by Richards are by Richards."
For Bigger Bang this meant: 13 Jaggers + 3 Richards' make a Stones long player. rate on Bigger Bang)
But not in the 1990s: So, it's no Wandering Spirit plus one Richards song at least.
This is my proposal regarding use as single (including b-sides), performance live (Keith did a real tour, Mick Webster Hall) and on tv, video existing and the like - plus share of songs between the composers and that would include Ronnie too! A very productive period solowise. And I don't count in Charlie's Charlie Parker series...

999 (5.50)
Wicked As It Seems (4.45)
Eileen (4.26)
Angel In My Heart (3.21)
Wandering Spirit (4.16)
- as this one is by Jimmy Rip too, this is my choice in comparison to Put Me In the Trash -
Bodytalks (5.18)
Somebody Else Might (4.54)
Sweet Thing (4.34)
Out Of Focus (4.31)
Don't Tear Me Up (4.10)
Will But You Won’t (5.04)
Mother Of A Man (4.17)

Some further notes: there are not less than 4 cover versions on WS. Only one would have made it on a Stones record and that presumbly as a single like Harlem Shuffle.
If you want more details for my choice, please, wait for tomorrow.

I cannot see it as a Rolling Stones album. To me it has a clear theme: "Mick Jagger presents he can deliver any kind of musical styles". Any Stones involvement would made it have too much compromises to a certain sound, since if we put Charlie, Keith and Ron together their sound and repertuare is quite limited, and would sound very much like the 'familiar' Rolling Stones. Now it is a Jagger exercise with different musicians. It needs to be that way.

But since it has more rockers and that kind of 'familar stuff' it seems to be the favourite among Rolling Stones fans. Personally I think the album is a bit over-rated, and I find, for example, PRIMIIVE COOL more interesting and 'deep' (noew shoot me). I think the last mentioned album is way too under-rated.

- Doxa

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Doxa
I cannot see it as a Rolling Stones album. To me it has a clear theme: "Mick Jagger presents he can deliver any kind of musical styles". Any Stones involvement would made it have too much compromises to a certain sound, since if we put Charlie, Keith and Ron together their sound and repertuare is quite limited, and would sound very much like the 'familiar' Rolling Stones. Now it is a Jagger exercise with different musicians. It needs to be that way.

But since it has more rockers and that kind of 'familar stuff' it seems to be the favourite among Rolling Stones fans. Personally I think the album is a bit over-rated, and I find, for example, PRIMIIVE COOL more interesting and 'deep' (noew shoot me). I think the last mentioned album is way too under-rated.

- Doxa

Yes, Primitive Cool is a really good album (though it sounds even more dated than Dirty Work now). A huge improvement over She's The Boss.

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Doxa
I cannot see it as a Rolling Stones album. To me it has a clear theme: "Mick Jagger presents he can deliver any kind of musical styles". Any Stones involvement would made it have too much compromises to a certain sound, since if we put Charlie, Keith and Ron together their sound and repertuare is quite limited, and would sound very much like the 'familiar' Rolling Stones. Now it is a Jagger exercise with different musicians. It needs to be that way.

But since it has more rockers and that kind of 'familar stuff' it seems to be the favourite among Rolling Stones fans. Personally I think the album is a bit over-rated, and I find, for example, PRIMIIVE COOL more interesting and 'deep' (noew shoot me). I think the last mentioned album is way too under-rated.

- Doxa

I dont care for Primitive cool but other than that you are right. As always . It's a Jagger showcase, not bad but not very bold either. It was a nice surprise in 1993. American Ceasar by Iggy Pop is similar in a way. A nice surprise in 1993, Iggy doing what fans wants him to do. Play it safe.

I have never yet been able to listen to Primitive Cool from start to finish. Even the day I bought it (on vinyl), I kept lifting the needle thinking, "The next one's gotta be better than this." I eventually ran out of songs. Though I like Party Doll.
T@3

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TeaAtThree
I have never yet been able to listen to Primitive Cool from start to finish. Even the day I bought it (on vinyl), I kept lifting the needle thinking, "The next one's gotta be better than this." I eventually ran out of songs. Though I like Party Doll.
T@3

Funny though, with TATTOO YOU that album made the most lasting impact on me from the Stones-related records from the 80's. I think it actually had the best and most challenging songs - the best melodies, song structures, lyrics - even though the 80's production (and the 'politically incorrect' "Let's Work" single &video) killed it. That is the last time one hears a Rolling Stone trying to reinvent oneself and develop one's game to new horizons. And I think he managed much better than people usually think. In that very album Jagger created his nowadays 'typical' singing tone and style after leaving the horrible nuance-free mid-80's barking behind. Of course, it is a cliche now, but that was not the case in 1987.

I think that some day when Jagger is gone, people might give it another listen and with more open ears to hear Mick saying there something they didnt want to or couldn't hear earlier. For a future Jaggerologists, or even Stonelogists, it would be a key album to interpret. That's my prediction.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-15 01:14 by Doxa.

Jagger's Wired All Night is an underrated all time rock classic!

Easily Jagger's best album. Keith may have enhanced it or detracted from it. Eother way Rick Rubin should produce the next Stones album if there ever is one.

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slew
Easily Jagger's best album. Keith may have enhanced it or detracted from it. Eother way Rick Rubin should produce the next Stones album if there ever is one.

Rick found working with Mick far too stressful, so he'd never be able to cope with Keith as well!

The best solo stones album and keith's talk is cheap as good as exile.

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kish_stoned
The best solo stones album and keith's talk is cheap as good as exile.

them's fightin' words!

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Doxa

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TeaAtThree
I have never yet been able to listen to Primitive Cool from start to finish. Even the day I bought it (on vinyl), I kept lifting the needle thinking, "The next one's gotta be better than this." I eventually ran out of songs. Though I like Party Doll.
T@3

Funny though, with TATTOO YOU that album made the most lasting impact on me from the Stones-related records from the 80's. I think it actually had the best and most challenging songs - the best melodies, song structures, lyrics - even though the 80's production (and the 'politically incorrect' "Let's Work" single &video) killed it. That is the last time one hears a Rolling Stone trying to reinvent oneself and develop one's game to new horizons. And I think he managed much better than people usually think. In that very album Jagger created his nowadays 'typical' singing tone and style after leaving the horrible nuance-free mid-80's barking behind. Of course, it is a cliche now, but that was not the case in 1987.

I think that some day when Jagger is gone, people might give it another listen and with more open ears to hear Mick saying there something they didnt want to or couldn't hear earlier. For a future Jaggerologists, or even Stonelogists, it would be a key album to interpret. That's my prediction.

- Doxa

Oh man, I have to disagree. IMO Jagger's music is steeped in R&B, Soul and Country. This is when he shines. It's no wonder "Wandering Spirit" is widel;y considered his best solo album; it's also his return to form. I think "Primitive" and "Boss" will be seen as a mis-step in his history. When he tried to bend this angular, very white music to his will; and style. (There is a political term I want to use to describe that music but I must refrain) Most reviews of PC say "don't like it, but I dig "Party Doll". I agree with that; and it's plain to see that PDoll is a song that sticks with Jagger's roots.
I respect Jagger immensely for always searching; part of being that way is to fall flat on your face for all to see. So I respect his failures too. I think Super Heavy MIGHT end up as a failure. I like the first two singles, but on the next two I find Jagger's voice to be a distraction; to not fit in at all. But we will see with the album.

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Sleepy City

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slew
Easily Jagger's best album. Keith may have enhanced it or detracted from it. Eother way Rick Rubin should produce the next Stones album if there ever is one.

Rick found working with Mick far too stressful, so he'd never be able to cope with Keith as well!

Or the other way around. Rubin is quite a character.

loved it back then. listened to it every day. good job mick & rick!
but it didnt age that well IMO. nowadays it doesnt mover me at all anymore.

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guitarbastard
loved it back then. listened to it every day. good job mick & rick!
but it didnt age that well IMO. nowadays it doesnt mover me at all anymore.

Yeah, there are some fabulous tracks on it, but still some stinkers.

Wired All Night
Sweet Thing
Out Of Focus
Don't Tear Me Up
Evening Gown
Think
Use Me
I've Been Lonely For So Long
Wandering Spirit

THAT would have made one of the bestalbum of the decade, imo.

Never cared for Mother Of A Man, Put Me In The Trash or Angel In My Heart (as cheesy as it gets).

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Palace Revolution 2000
I respect Jagger immensely for always searching; part of being that way is to fall flat on your face for all to see. So I respect his failures too.

I fully agree with that.
I'd like to add that this searching is the main, and probably only, reason I can understand
of band members to make music outside the Stones. If you're gonna make an album that is gonna
sound like a Stones album, why not involve the other members of the band?
Charlie does it, playing his jazz and boogie. Ron does it, playing the songs he wrote and that
won't make it past the Jagger/Richards committee. And Mick did it a lot of times, exploring
musical directions one can be sure of that would never make it on a Stones album.

And here's what's bothering me about Wandering Spirit (that I really enjoy), and what started this
thread: there's so many songs on here that would easily fit on a Stones album. What was the
purpose of putting them on a solo-album?

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

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Palace Revolution 2000

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Doxa

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TeaAtThree
I have never yet been able to listen to Primitive Cool from start to finish. Even the day I bought it (on vinyl), I kept lifting the needle thinking, "The next one's gotta be better than this." I eventually ran out of songs. Though I like Party Doll.
T@3

Funny though, with TATTOO YOU that album made the most lasting impact on me from the Stones-related records from the 80's. I think it actually had the best and most challenging songs - the best melodies, song structures, lyrics - even though the 80's production (and the 'politically incorrect' "Let's Work" single &video) killed it. That is the last time one hears a Rolling Stone trying to reinvent oneself and develop one's game to new horizons. And I think he managed much better than people usually think. In that very album Jagger created his nowadays 'typical' singing tone and style after leaving the horrible nuance-free mid-80's barking behind. Of course, it is a cliche now, but that was not the case in 1987.

I think that some day when Jagger is gone, people might give it another listen and with more open ears to hear Mick saying there something they didnt want to or couldn't hear earlier. For a future Jaggerologists, or even Stonelogists, it would be a key album to interpret. That's my prediction.

- Doxa

Oh man, I have to disagree. IMO Jagger's music is steeped in R&B, Soul and Country. This is when he shines. It's no wonder "Wandering Spirit" is widel;y considered his best solo album; it's also his return to form. I think "Primitive" and "Boss" will be seen as a mis-step in his history. When he tried to bend this angular, very white music to his will; and style. (There is a political term I want to use to describe that music but I must refrain) Most reviews of PC say "don't like it, but I dig "Party Doll". I agree with that; and it's plain to see that PDoll is a song that sticks with Jagger's roots.
I respect Jagger immensely for always searching; part of being that way is to fall flat on your face for all to see. So I respect his failures too. I think Super Heavy MIGHT end up as a failure. I like the first two singles, but on the next two I find Jagger's voice to be a distraction; to not fit in at all. But we will see with the album.

It is true that PRIMITIVE COOL is a failure to a certain degree. But I see it as an interesting failure the same way as I see THEIR SATANIC MAJESTIES to be. I take that any day over such pastishe albums like a BIGGER BANG or even IT'S ONLY ROCK'N'ROLL. Usually the music lasts better when one has really put one's imagination and fresh ideas in it, and not just recircling half-heartidly the same old ideas and cliches.

I'm not quite sure if Jagger is basically such 'unwhite' in his influences. For example, there is not much blues in "Mother's Little Helper" but still sounds 100% convincing Jagger. There is that English blood in him, too. But sure, he has done his best things in making his own unique version of AfroAmerican music.

- Doxa

True Doxa. I also added Country as influence. Which is not a very 'black' music. But yes, the deepest, and truest roots have to be his English folk.
I don't think there is much of MLH in the Primitive Cool music though. Those were early pop songs; made for 45's with refrains, catchy melodies. More than that I think they rode on attitude. Jagger had so much natural attitude that he basically carried anything. That is all part of the PC being a mis-step. IMO it is the beginning of losing his natural grace and attitude/
I wil NEVER understand how such a brilliant, gifted, natural dancer (see that tour de force in every second in '72 on stage) ended up with these stilted mannerisms that he affect nowadays.
Edward Twining said this point much better than me in another thread.

if "Wandering Spirit" was a "Rolling stones" Album
then 'Voodo Lounge' could have been a Mick Jagger Solo album...
Mick sings on both of them anyway...

2 1 2 0

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Palace Revolution 2000
True Doxa. I also added Country as influence. Which is not a very 'black' music. But yes, the deepest, and truest roots have to be his English folk.
I don't think there is much of MLH in the Primitive Cool music though. Those were early pop songs; made for 45's with refrains, catchy melodies. More than that I think they rode on attitude. Jagger had so much natural attitude that he basically carried anything. That is all part of the PC being a mis-step. IMO it is the beginning of losing his natural grace and attitude/
I wil NEVER understand how such a brilliant, gifted, natural dancer (see that tour de force in every second in '72 on stage) ended up with these stilted mannerisms that he affect nowadays.
Edward Twining said this point much better than me in another thread.

I agree that Jagger quite clearly lost the touch during the 80's. He just couldn't cope convincingly with the trends any longer. That was typical for the 60/70's stars. I think SHE'S THE BOSS very much indicated what is going to be like. That's a Stones album with a bit more trendy touch, but not enough. He didn't get any new fans, and couldn't charm the Stones fans either. For the non-Stones fans he sounds way too Stones-like rocker, and for the Stones fans he sounds like a light or diet version of the real thing. The opening cut "Lonely At The Top" is a good example of that.

I personally was very disappointed with SHE'S THE BOSS, but (pervertly perhaps) I saw PRIMITIVE COOL much better effort. More challenging. But quite clearly the fact that he couldn't find a new, younger audience co-incidented with that the Stones fans pretty much condemned the whole effort. For them he was way too far. A clear flop. And of course, Keith's back to basic TALK IS CHEAP was easy shot to charm teh old Stones fans. I think that with WANDERING SPIRIT Jagger showed that he can also play with the safe and syure style card if he wants (I think teh case is that it is only what Keith can do whereas for Mick it is barely an option among others.) I also agree with some people here that WANDERING SPIRIT is a kind of oddity among Jagger records. He could have that kind of music with The Stones as a medium. Maybe partly due to WANDERING SPIRIT (and MAIN OFFENDER which didn't anything significant to TALK IS CHEAP) that I found VOODOO LOUNGE quite boring album when it was released (as I still do). It started to sound like the band is just recicling their old ideas, and play with the retro card (Stones-by-numbers).

However, there is something funny about the muse of Jagger. He seemingly wants to sell a lot records and have hits (who not in his business?) but he sounds quite disciplined how to do that. Surely not by any means. He wants to do it 'fairly' - like using the sounds and methods of the day. There will be no American Song Book by Mick Jagger. He mentioned some time ago that he could do a pure country&western album which would sell good, but he don't want to because he don't find that inspiring. I think SuperHeavy fits very well Jagger's "philosophy". It is somehow current and a novel thing.

I think the bit about his losing his natural physicality is simply to do with aging. As young he didn't need to do anything to remain fit; it was all instinct and natural. But during the 80's, after turning to forty - he needed to work out and train a hell lot to remain fit and in a 'Jaggerian' form. I think he simply overdid it, and lost his natural physicality in the process. The athletism seemed to be finally a purpose of itws own. A kind of 'freak' feature in the Stones/Jagger show. It never was that back in the 60's and 70's.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-16 16:38 by Doxa.

More partly OT-reflection (not want to start a new thread).

Even though the 80's is somehow described as a lost Stones decade, now in a hidsight we can see that the big boys (Mick and Keith) were still highly productive back then. For a fan it was an interesting period to visit the record store. Almost every year there was a new strongly Stones-related studio album there to be found.

1980 EMOTIONAL RESCUE
1981 TATTOO YOU
1983 UNDERCOVER
1985 SHE'S THE BOSS
1986 DIRTY WORK
1987 PRIMITIVE COOL
1988 TALK IS CHEAP
1989 STEEL WHEELS

I can sill remember what a thrill was to hear a first Mick Jagger solo album, and even more a Keith Richards solo album. As concepts those were something brandnew back then, and for a Rolling Stones fan almost as exciting as a new Rolling Stones album.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-16 17:03 by Doxa.