Trainarollin mentioned recently that he has talked to someone in the know about the Jagger 88 tour. I was going to ask him in that thread until it ocurred to me it might be an interesting topic on it's own.

I have always been interested in how it cam to be. Did he play to big crowds? Were ticket sales a surprise or a dissapointment? It must have seemed wierd to everyone involved to see Mick without his original bandmates. Was there a sense at the end that he would continue to tour alone, or was it obvious he had to get back with the Stones?

Any thoughts or opinions please.

He toured Japan for the first time in his career and Australia for the first time in 15 years. Both tours were huge successes with the emphasis on Stones' Greatest Hits. In retrospect, listen to the rehearsals or the soundboards or watch the videos and you can view it as the dry run for the STEEL WHEELS tour and all that followed it. Same arrangements, same stage presentation. The beginning of the so-called Vegas Era for the Stones.

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Rocky Dijon
listen to the rehearsals

Where can I find these?

Try the Hot Stuff page.

Pachinko Mick

Tsutomu Yamashita also played his important role at that show.

It had been argued that Mick chose "safe" markets for the tour - the places The Stones never been or for a long time - and I believe there is a hint of truth on that. He never tested the weight of his name in their "traditional" markets. The sales of PRIMITIVE COOL must have been a shock for him (as some of his latest efforts, especially the single "Ruthless People"). Of course, one could argue that he tested the Las Vegas concept he would apply later into his proper context (The Stones). Partly anachronism, but who knows... maybe he was chickening with his solo career already by then. Or maybe he just wanted to do a tour by himself, perhaps to prove himself that he is able to do that, and experience how is it like that. And then "go back" to his proper job. Who knows?

But I have to say that Jagger is quite awesome in those clips... maybe he should have push his solo career harder, and devolop the Vegas concept there (and not castrate the Stones...) Maybe he could have use The Stones templete as McCartney has used the Beatles one. It is part of Mick's history, the history he mostly contributed to make... it would have been easier for him to "milk it" with different musicians, with different approaches, etc. and it might have been musically more awarding than to force musically one-dimensional and - finally almost half-handicaped - Keith and Ronnie to clown with him, and give the corny. legacy-killing impression of The Rolling Stones as a still a "living and breathing band"...

I think in few yaers the people would have been ready to celebrate The Rolling Stones in the form (or as a part) of Jagger show alone. Once they got used to the idea that there was no Rolling Stones any longer. Just think of no STEEL WHEELS record and tour at all. Probably the big markets would have been ready for a Mick Jagger show after the strong WANDERING SPIRIT (but some of the relaxed, unforced feeling of the album must have to do with Mick knowing securing his back with the recent Stones success, and how the band was solely in his command then). Who knows?

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-23 12:21 by Doxa.

I actually like a lot his solo tour.Songs were very differently performed what stones versions was,and still is.Lot of energy going on.Australia was brilliant.
Many mock him playing songs like foxy lady and wild colonial boy,but in my opinion,they we good choices,and worked well.Then he did stones songs,which been rarely performed ever since after that tour.Rip this joint was on of them.
There was also a rumour about making a solo tour in europe.I really wish he would done that,tickets would have been ripped from hands.But i have no idea why hole idea chickened.
Like Doxa said,,,,after wandering spirit,,it would have a wonderfull tour.

Such a great technical player, being that modest.
Thanks for posting.

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marko
I actually like a lot his solo tour.Songs were very differently performed what stones versions was,and still is.Lot of energy going on.Australia was brilliant.
Many mock him playing songs like foxy lady and wild colonial boy,but in my opinion,they we good choices,and worked well.Then he did stones songs,which been rarely performed ever since after that tour.Rip this joint was on of them.
There was also a rumour about making a solo tour in europe.I really wish he would done that,tickets would have been ripped from hands.But i have no idea why hole idea chickened.
Like Doxa said,,,,after wandering spirit,,it would have a wonderfull tour.

agree totally!

Just watched some of the videos and i think it's terrible. Apart from the horrible 80's haircuts these musicians, how good they may be, really don't understand the stones music. everything that makes the stones a good band, the swing, the looseness, the power, this band misses. especially the drummer and bassplayer. it's like Toto playing Stonessongs!

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BobK
Just watched some of the videos and i think it's terrible. Apart from the horrible 80's haircuts these musicians, how good they may be, really don't understand the stones music. everything that makes the stones a good band, the swing, the looseness, the power, this band misses. especially the drummer and bassplayer. it's like Toto playing Stonessongs!

Amen. Totally have to agree with ya on that.

anyone know if Jerry Hall accompanied him on this tour? If not, he must have had some crazee times, touring foreign lands all by his lonesome...

I believe Jerry was in London starring onstage in THE GRADUATE at the time.

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BobK
Just watched some of the videos and i think it's terrible. Apart from the horrible 80's haircuts these musicians, how good they may be, really don't understand the stones music. everything that makes the stones a good band, the swing, the looseness, the power, this band misses. especially the drummer and bassplayer. it's like Toto playing Stonessongs!

somehow you're right. but then again it was mick who wanted it to sound that way!he chose the musicians. and would it have make sense to copy the stones? dont think so. he had to try it his way. thats all.

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Britney

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BobK

it's like Toto playing Stonessongs!

It's too simple to compare them.
Toto's shuffle feel is famous over the world, their keyboard sound, Lukather's guitarsound...it's a different feel, a different generation.

Let me put it this way:
I want to hear the Stones playing Toto?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-23 18:46 by Amsterdamned.

It reminds me of when Springsteen toured without the E-Street Band: Everything thing was there, except the most important thing.

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BobK
Just watched some of the videos and i think it's terrible. Apart from the horrible 80's haircuts these musicians, how good they may be, really don't understand the stones music. everything that makes the stones a good band, the swing, the looseness, the power, this band misses. especially the drummer and bassplayer. it's like Toto playing Stonessongs!

But it is a "good Toto" there. The Vegas act called the Rolling Stones that tours the world now and then is a "bad Toto". The Vegas concept would be better if played totally by technically superior players.

- Doxa

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guitarbastard

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BobK
Just watched some of the videos and i think it's terrible. Apart from the horrible 80's haircuts these musicians, how good they may be, really don't understand the stones music. everything that makes the stones a good band, the swing, the looseness, the power, this band misses. especially the drummer and bassplayer. it's like Toto playing Stonessongs!

somehow you're right. but then again it was mick who wanted it to sound that way!he chose the musicians. and would it have make sense to copy the stones? dont think so. he had to try it his way. thats all.

And that's exactly what i don't understand about Mick. that he wanted to sound like that. I mean, he could have asked also Jim Keltner on drums and Ry Cooder on guitar. Musicians that play with a feeling and a groove. Like Keith did with the expensive winos. I think Keith had a much better taste.

Let me think of it this way.
Mick tried the field test of
Bernard Fowler's feasibility on stage,
Ronnie's condition (he also toured in Japan at the same time)
and
Bill Graham's dedication.

Anyway, 150,000 tickets were sold out in a few hours. Not bad at all.

Quote
Doxa
It had been argued that Mick chose "safe" markets for the tour - the places The Stones never been or for a long time - and I believe there is a hint of truth on that. He never tested the weight of his name in their "traditional" markets. The sales of PRIMITIVE COOL must have been a shock for him (as some of his latest efforts, especially the single "Ruthless People"). Of course, one could argue that he tested the Las Vegas concept he would apply later into his proper context (The Stones). Partly anachronism, but who knows... maybe he was chickening with his solo career already by then. Or maybe he just wanted to do a tour by himself, perhaps to prove himself that he is able to do that, and experience how is it like that. And then "go back" to his proper job. Who knows?

But I have to say that Jagger is quite awesome in those clips... maybe he should have push his solo career harder, and devolop the Vegas concept there (and not castrate the Stones...) Maybe he could have use The Stones templete as McCartney has used the Beatles one. It is part of Mick's history, the history he mostly contributed to make... it would have been easier for him to "milk it" with different musicians, with different approaches, etc. and it might have been musically more awarding than to force musically one-dimensional and - finally almost half-handicaped - Keith and Ronnie to clown with him, and give the corny. legacy-killing impression of The Rolling Stones as a still a "living and breathing band"...

I think in few yaers the people would have been ready to celebrate The Rolling Stones in the form (or as a part) of Jagger show alone. Once they got used to the idea that there was no Rolling Stones any longer. Just think of no STEEL WHEELS record and tour at all. Probably the big markets would have been ready for a Mick Jagger show after the strong WANDERING SPIRIT (but some of the relaxed, unforced feeling of the album must have to do with Mick knowing securing his back with the recent Stones success, and how the band was solely in his command then). Who knows?

- Doxa

You have to also think about how music-crazy Japan had become by that time. During the Stones earlier eras, noone went to Japan. But in the mid to late 70's, that market exploded. Cheap Trick was big in Japan when they couldn't get arrested here. It was the only place the Runaways ever really had any success. The list goes on from there. So Japan was probably the safest market he could of chosen at that time. I don't think there is any way he would have sold out venues the size of the Tokyo-Dome in the U.S., or even Europe.

I have always felt there was more at play with this tour than meets the eye, it's such a strange, random, and brief occurrence. I still feel the rumors about Mick moving on to the U.S., or at least Europe, being canceled due to inquires into ticket sales coming back with poor results are true. Either that, or this was a dry run for his idea of a Stones tour run completely his way. Or both, in that he had the Stones in the back of his mind if it turned out Japan and Australia would be as good as it would ever get.

I just don't buy that he did these shows and that was it, no plans for anything further, just a little tour of Japan and Australia. There's more to it than that. Something else was meant to happen and didn't.

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chenry9195

Thanks for posting.

This sounds good:

Jagger is quite an artist/singer.
Somebody tell me Satriani cannot play the blues..
At least I reconsider my thoughts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-24 09:46 by Amsterdamned.

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BobK

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guitarbastard

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BobK
Just watched some of the videos and i think it's terrible. Apart from the horrible 80's haircuts these musicians, how good they may be, really don't understand the stones music. everything that makes the stones a good band, the swing, the looseness, the power, this band misses. especially the drummer and bassplayer. it's like Toto playing Stonessongs!

somehow you're right. but then again it was mick who wanted it to sound that way!he chose the musicians. and would it have make sense to copy the stones? dont think so. he had to try it his way. thats all.

And that's exactly what i don't understand about Mick. that he wanted to sound like that. I mean, he could have asked also Jim Keltner on drums and Ry Cooder on guitar. Musicians that play with a feeling and a groove. Like Keith did with the expensive winos. I think Keith had a much better taste.

i would even say mick hasnt got any taste (anymore).

Well actually it's Simon Phillips on drums during these those shows. And today he plays with Toto.

I don't blame Jagger for trying something different in 1988. The times wasn't with the Stones for most of the 1980's.

Musicians where getting better and there was a spirit in the air of capturing a more 'perfect' clean sound.

You can't deny bands like Toto. I personally don't like their music, but they where huge inovators of perfection and timing - which the music was desperatly in need of...

Today it's very obvious that there is a little "Toto" in all of us:
When we blame The Stones for playing sloppy during concerts, it's because we are affected of the 1980's perfection.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-24 14:58 by Blueranger.

Quote
BobK
Just watched some of the videos and i think it's terrible. Apart from the horrible 80's haircuts these musicians, how good they may be, really don't understand the stones music. everything that makes the stones a good band, the swing, the looseness, the power, this band misses. especially the drummer and bassplayer. it's like Toto playing Stonessongs!

it was never meant to be a Jagger solo tour which sounds like the Stones.
Why would he want to do that? It's his solo tour. If he wanted to sound like the Stones he would have hired a few lesser skilled guitarists who play rhythm guitars...
He played Stones songs to please the crowd.

This was Jagger - the 80's !

There is a difference between the "I don't play too well and I don't care" attitude and the "Sorry, guys, I'm trying to play but I can't anymore" attitude. The latter I felt with Keith in Paris 2007 and it hurts. The first is probably part of the Stones' magic.

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Blueranger
Well actually it's Simon Phillips on drums during these those shows. And today he plays with Toto.

I don't blame Jagger for trying something different in 1988. The times wasn't with the Stones for most of the 1980's.

Musicians where getting better and there was a spirit in the air of capturing a more 'perfect' clean sound.

You can't deny bands like Toto. I personally don't like their music, but they where huge inovators of perfection and timing - which the music was desperatly in need of...

Today it's very obvious that there is a little "Toto" in all of us:
When we blame The Stones for playing sloppy during concerts, it's because we are affected of the 1980's perfection.

+1. They have made some great songs though..imo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-24 16:08 by Amsterdamned.

worst har cut ever, but jagger still the old one.

somehow he managed to age at least 10 years between 88 and steel wheels.

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stoneswashed77
worst har cut ever, but jagger still the old one.

somehow he managed to age at least 10 years between 88 and steel wheels.

haha...so true!