I just can't get straight the profusion of songs in this period. I know there were sessions specifically for ER--including at Pathe Marconi, but also in Jamaica, right?--but did the final album end up with any tracks originally cut for Some Girls?

the continuity of the 2 albums may be somewhat overstated... ER is just so much more relaxed.

Summer Romance and Where the Boys Go were both originally cut for SOME GIRLS but later reworked. The sessions in Compass Point were January-February 1979 with Pathe-Marconi over the summer and Atlantic Records in New York in the Fall. Last minute tinkering was done at Atlantic Records in the spring of 1980 leading up to the June release.

thanks, Rocky -- and those are the 2 cuts that are not relaxed. Fascinating how much the group's overall vibe can change.

I think 'Where The Boys Go' was first attempted at RCA Studios in Hollywood in Aug-Sept '78 - which would have been the first sessions for what became 'Emotional rescue', although nothing from this session ended up on the album (they were stockpiling songs as it was looking at this time that Keith was facing jail). 'Where The Boys Go' was also attempted at this session, although it had been first worked on during the Paris '78 'Some Girls' sessions.

Most of the 'Some Girls' songs were done in late '77 anyway, so you could argue that one of the reasons they cut so many songs (most of them without a finished vocal) and continued to do so up to early March '78 was that they felt it was possible that it would give them something to work on a later date if Keith was unavailable.

The RCA session following the 1978 tour is also where "The Harder They Come" was cut for the B-side of "Run, Rudolph, Run" and where the King Biscuit Flower Hour recordings of the 1978 tour were mixed. The blistering "When the Whip Comes Down" from SUCKING IN THE SEVENTIES being the only commercial release of these recordings. They played an awful lot of covers at these sessions although it's hard to judge from bootlegs if that was just their usual session warm-up's or if it was a deliberate emphasis on covers.

According to nzentgraf, Summer Romance was recorded in France in the January-March 1978 span of recording and then either recorded again or worked on at RCA in August 1978, where Where The Boys Go was recorded.

The rest of Emotional Rescue was recorded at Compass Point in Nassau, Bahamas and back in Paris, France as well. The only time the Stones recorded in Jamaica was in 1972.

So ER has only 1 Some Girls leftover on it! At least that I can make sense of.

According to Martin Elliott's book, only Summer Romance was recorded - and then later re-mixed for ER - the rest of the ER tracks came later.
According to Karnbach, they were all worked on post Some Girls.

Well Summer Romance wasn't "remixed" if it was never released. It was just mixed. That's like saying Worried About You was "remixed" for Tattoo You when in fact it was never released before that.

You konw, there's such a massive amount of material in so many phases of completion(or non-completion!) from this period that I get totally confused!!

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skipstone
Well Summer Romance wasn't "remixed" if it was never released. It was just mixed. That's like saying Worried About You was "remixed" for Tattoo You when in fact it was never released before that.

Well, in the case of EMOTIONAL RESCUE one can really speak of re-míxing or even re-re-mixing, namely mixing the record took actually longer than ever (and longer than to record), and constisted of endless fights between Mick and Keith (who had their own seperated mixes, etc.), at least if we believe Bill Wyman.

As far as I can interpret, the mixing process of EMOTIONAL RESCUE - that seemingly was nothing but an ego-war - was a kind of low-point of The Glimmer Twins creative co-work, and I think after that they - or Mick - lost the interest really do that any longer exhaustively, and any Stones album ever since is somehow made out of compromises (that Mick and Keith do not need to really face each other). For example, TATTOO YOU was mixed by Mick and Bob Clearmountain, and Keith didn't (need to/allowed to) contribute seemingly at all.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-04 19:41 by Doxa.

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scottkeef
You konw, there's such a massive amount of material in so many phases of completion(or non-completion!) from this period that I get totally confused!!

me too! I wish Place Pigalle were in chronological order (and didn't contain earlier stuff as well).

You know when people say "fantastic thread - this is why I come to iorr." Well, this is one of those threads for me.

It is too late at night right now for me to drink it all in, but will return tomorrow to re-read and absorb all these interesting multidimensional posts (that are pithy and yet remarkable short). Thank you guys

- swiss



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-05 11:22 by swiss.

[www.collectorsmusicreviews.com]

Funny coincidence!

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swiss
You know when people say "fantastic thread - this is why I come to iorr." Well, this is one of those threads for me.

It is too late at night right now for me to drink it all in, but will return tomorrow to re-read and absorb all these interesting multidimensional posts (that are pithy and yet remarkable short). Thank you guys

- swiss

glad you enjoyed, swiss-- I do try to be pithy nowadays, and I appreciate the deep knowledge of many posters here... but don't you think we ought to expand the thread to include a brian jones conspiracy theory, a taylor vs. wood debate, or ideas for the set list for "the next tour," you know, to make the thread a classic?!

I think ER was the hangover from Some Girls, it very much fit a certain time frame musically. Underrated album IMO.

"a brian jones conspiracy theory"

i'll get quite close to that : a few years ago Phil Manoeuvre (a French rock "journalist" à la Jayson Blair) claimed in his book "stoned" that a creatively dry MJ bought a song from an obscure US songwritter and put it on ER (can'"t remember which)

Perhaps the only time that I've disagreed with Skipstone:

remixing doesn't require a track be released first, only that it have been mixed previously and then remixed. You'll see that credit for "Fingerprint File" on IORR as well as remix credits for the entire TATTOO YOU album.

Incidentally, I don't know for sure that "Summer Romance" on EMOTIONAL RESCUE is only a remix of the SOME GIRLS outtake and not simply a new recording. I say this because the version they rehearsed at SNL in October 1978 is much rawer and more punk like many SOME GIRLS tracks were than what turns up in 1980.

As for Keith's lack of involvement in TATTOO YOU, I'm not sure I believe that entirely either. Mick and Keith (like many successful creative individuals) tend to gloss over contributions made by anyone else - including themselves. They frequently take most or all of the credit for songwriting as well.

Bill German reported in his BEGGARS BANQUET fanzine at the time (when Ian Stewart was one of his sources of information) that while Mick and Keith had been together briefly in Paris and New York in the Fall of 1980, Keith was at Compass Point in early 1981 working on the tapes while Mick was doing the same in Paris. He later reports in late spring 1981 that Mick and Keith were back together working on the tapes in New York.

While Keith is the obvious offender on saying he wrote songs and making it sound like Mick did little or nothing, Mick has done the same. I specifically recall a CREEM interview with Mick in 1981 where he claims to have written most of TATTOO YOU. It does not surprise me that Mick now takes all of the credit for what is considered their last great album.

While Chris Kimsey seems to corroborate Mick's side of the story, it's worth noting that Kimsey was with Mick in Paris. Bob Clearmountain was interviewed (I'm thinking in MUSICIAN) when the Virgin remasters came out in 1994 and he discussed that the credits to TATTOO YOU were misleading stating that there was so much work and an approaching tour deadline that he and Kimsey did a division of labor and worked on separate tracks. It's possible that Keith was with Clearmountain. I don't know this to be fact and I'm only trying to reconcile what Bill German printed in 1980/1981.

You can see time and again the old adage of success having many fathers being played out. I've learned not to trust either Glimmer's recollections as Gospel. Like many successful artists, they're memories tend to be self-serving.

a fascinating narrative... keith does seem checked out nowadays though, doesn't he? So we might have to compare the types of comments he makes now to how he spoke about his contributions then.

Rocky - the point is if something is remixed on an album it's redundant - there are MANY mixes for LP tracks. If each time the song is worked on then what you are saying is it's technically a remix since the very first time the song was listened to with the faders in whatever position is the "original" mix.

Maybe Fingerprint and all the Tattoo You tracks were mixed at some point - and where are those mixes? - but never finished. Since Mick did additional recording, the songs still had to be mixed. The Stones have always done various mixes of each song. They edit them together. Or not.

An actual remix, in the term of how it is used, implies 'something other than the LP version'. Mick said it in Flippo's book, that Keith gets into days worth of mixing sessions.

Never have seen where it said the songs on Tattoo You were remixed yet alone mixed!

The credit on the TATTOO YOU LP sleeve is for re-mixing the same on IORR's sleeve for "Fingerprint File." I believe the reason is because they utilized a different engineer than who originally mixed the track as with Glyn Johns on "Fingerprint File" and the entire TATTOO YOU project.

Ah. Well. Then in this case it just means 'mixed again', where as 'remix' has come to basically mean some kind of special version unlike what is on the album or single. But really, for what they did with, for a good example, Worried About you in 1975, they obviously (as we know) worked on it further. So they had a mix to listen to for notes, what to change, etc.

In the end, it's still a mix regardless. The songs were mixed for the album. Whether for the first time or the 20th time.

But that does say one thing - that there were mixes done prior to further work, which means there are more songs available for some kind of 'FROM THE VAULTS' kind of release.

Right? Right!

I get what you mean now as well. As for TATTOO YOU, I agree since a great deal of overdubbing occurred, not just refreshed mixes. I seem to remember an interview with Jagger (it might be CREEM again) where they refer to Kimsey and Clearmountain getting the same sound as the Miss You 12" where the tracks sound like they're mixed with cocaine in the grooves of the vinyl. Jagger seemed to like the analogy and laughed saying, it would be too expensive.

"cocaine in the grooves of the vinyl".

EXCELLENT!