The thread about 10 Worst Stones cuts made me reflect on this. There are many songs from the Stones, when they were still the "real" Rolling Stones, that are not that great, but the very fact that they are a Stones song makes them tops again.
Take "Family" or "Hang Fire"; IMO these are not good songs. Or even "Empty Heart", "Good Times Bad Times'...terrible songs, Haha... But, when they come on my player in the car I will crank that b*tch.
So is a bad Stones song, still better than a good other-band song?
Does "Take it or Leave it" beat "Highway Star" by Deep Purple?

I see your point but I don't think 'Winning Ugly' is better than 'The Crystal Ship' by the Doors, just because it is a Rolling Stones song.

Maybe that's where the problem lays with the Stones, they were so good for so long, their reputation has grown on the b.b./exile era, and now they believe their own hype? That and a combination of age and yes men??

But then again it's all subjective cause I love 'Family', I always thought the song rocked!

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

In a word....No
At least not to me.
It seems to me to even suggest that anything the Stones do
would be better than something good from another band
goes to the heart of where the word fan comes from ...
Fanatic.

Sorry
Marv

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

Quote
Marhsall
I see your point but I don't think 'Winning Ugly' is better than 'The Crystal Ship' by the Doors, just because it is a Rolling Stones song.

IMO not really a good comparisson because I think the Doors were better songwriters when it comes to pure songwriting. With the Stones, songwriting and arranging/performing is often intertwined, as discussed in another thread.

Even at their worst no one come a close second.

Quote
Marhsall
I see your point but I don't think 'Winning Ugly' is better than 'The Crystal Ship' by the Doors, just because it is a Rolling Stones song.

Maybe that's where the problem lays with the Stones, they were so good for so long, their reputation has grown on the b.b./exile era, and now they believe their own hype? That and a combination of age and yes men??

But then again it's all subjective cause I love 'Family', I always thought the song rocked!

It's not so much the Stones believe their own hype, it's the fans that think the Stones are the best and no one else is as good or better and believe their own hype.

A shitty song is a shitty song. Hang Fire is not a shitty song to me but Winning Ugly - any Doors song is better than that song.

Quote
skipstone
A shitty song is a shitty song.

Yes. I think what the topic starter meant was how good a relatively weak song of the Stones is. I think they are still better than the average of most other-band songs. But that's all relative; a good song is good and a bad song is bad.

Well, OK, I was a bit obtuse - a weak (shitty) Stones song is not better than a great Doors song (or whoever) unless you just HATE that band/artist. For example, and this is really bad - but I'd rather listen to Winning Ugly than listen to anything by Elton John.

And I don't ever listen to Winning Ugly.

Quote
More Hot Rocks
Even at their worst no one come a close second.

you need to get out more.

Quote
marvpeck
In a word....No
At least not to me.
It seems to me to even suggest that anything the Stones do
would be better than something good from another band
goes to the heart of where the word fan comes from ...
Fanatic.

Sorry
Marv

Exactly. Well Said.

Dunno nothing about good or bad songs. If it's the Stones I like it

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
The thread about 10 Worst Stones cuts made me reflect on this. There are many songs from the Stones, when they were still the "real" Rolling Stones, that are not that great, but the very fact that they are a Stones song makes them tops again.
Take "Family" or "Hang Fire"; IMO these are not good songs. Or even "Empty Heart", "Good Times Bad Times'...terrible songs, Haha... But, when they come on my player in the car I will crank that b*tch.
So is a bad Stones song, still better than a good other-band song?
Does "Take it or Leave it" beat "Highway Star" by Deep Purple?

I agree about this partially until Tattoo You, but not that a mediocre Stones song is better than some other band's great tunes. I think that from Undercover on (for me, I don't know when you think that they stopped being the "real" Stones), it's the other way around, even if a song sounds "good", I don't like it. They all sound soulless and there's barely a catchy melody.

I'd rather listen to anyone than elton!

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

some people seriously need to stop putting the stones on a pedestal. it's one thing to say they are your favourite band, but to say that nobody comes close to them, even with their worst songs, is just ridiculous. there are SO MANY great bands out there. "world's greatest rock and roll band" is just a marketing ploy. there's no such thing. if you think that the stones are high up on their own planet and every other band are miles and miles below them, then you need to get your head checked. the stones have the "touch", the "feel", they "swing". but guess what, so do other bands. i love the stones but do i think they are the greatest ever? no. there's no such thing.

Quote
ineedadrink
some people seriously need to stop putting the stones on a pedestal. it's one thing to say they are your favourite band, but to say that nobody comes close to them, even with their worst songs, is just ridiculous. there are SO MANY great bands out there. "world's greatest rock and roll band" is just a marketing ploy. there's no such thing. if you think that the stones are high up on their own planet and every other band are miles and miles below them, then you need to get your head checked. the stones have the "touch", the "feel", they "swing". but guess what, so do other bands. i love the stones but do i think they are the greatest ever? no. there's no such thing.

Indeed. Well said. This has always been my point of view from the start of listening to rock music . . .

Odd question. There are still bands like REM and AC/DC for you who doesn't like the real stuff...

2 1 2 0

Quote
ineedadrink
some people seriously need to stop putting the stones on a pedestal. it's one thing to say they are your favourite band, but to say that nobody comes close to them, even with their worst songs, is just ridiculous.

Not if their worst songs still are better than the average of most other bands, which I think is true. It would be hard enough to get a consensus on which the worst Stones songs are, as the other thread is indicating. IMO, they're not the top songwriters, but their average is quite good.

Is Bad Stones Still Good?..Yes..The Rolling Stones can do no wrong!..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-19 20:16 by colonial.

and the award for drinking the most kool-aid goes to.....colonial!

Good Times, Bad Times and Hang Fire are great songs from the Stones. Your post doesn't make sense. I like only about half of the Stones songs, and the rest I ignore. And there are some fans who like all og A Bigger Bang and all of Dirty Work. It really is a matter of personal taste.

PS, I like ABBA too.

I think I am trying to sort my own questions out:
first off I am realizing that within myself I see two distinct different Stones: the cool years from '62-83, and then from 86 onwards. A lot of this has to do with Jagger's persona. Up until Undercover he is supercool.
Then '86-89 ;"Dirty Work", first solo albums and Steel Wheels"- he changed. What is odd about '86-89 period is that at the time I did not know this yet. It was happening as we went, and it has taken the perspective from the perch of today to understand that Jagger had already changed. I was watching the Japanese press conference of '90. And Jagger was already acting differently. No longer the rebel.

And I realize that the music from '62-83 is unquestioned by me. It doesn't even matter about the song. It is the Stones, so I prefer it to most anything.
My listening to the Stones actually has shifted to a different kind of listening. It would be simplefying the matter to state that now I listen to them with the same ear that I have for all others. No - there has already been too much water under the bridge for me to just toss them back into the pile of also-rans. Today's Stones experience is complicated because there is the unreal expectancy, and there is hope, there is some kind of embarrassment at times, there is confirmation. But very rarely is there this plain joy anymore that I get from the "other" Stones. Or maybe the joy just takes longer to arrive because it is now tempered with relief; relief that they made it through. That "Out of Control" or "Under the Radar" are brilliant all thew way through. writing this very sentence I realize that I don't trust them like I used to.
I better quit now.

Quote
marvpeck
In a word....No
At least not to me.
It seems to me to even suggest that anything the Stones do
would be better than something good from another band
goes to the heart of where the word fan comes from ...
Fanatic.

or at least a predisposition or bias. no, bad is bad, whether it's the stones or sinatra or duke ellington. all the greats have produced stinkers and they don't stink any less because the act is great.

Quote
NorthShoreBlues2

Quote
ineedadrink
some people seriously need to stop putting the stones on a pedestal. it's one thing to say they are your favourite band, but to say that nobody comes close to them, even with their worst songs, is just ridiculous. there are SO MANY great bands out there. "world's greatest rock and roll band" is just a marketing ploy. there's no such thing. if you think that the stones are high up on their own planet and every other band are miles and miles below them, then you need to get your head checked. the stones have the "touch", the "feel", they "swing". but guess what, so do other bands. i love the stones but do i think they are the greatest ever? no. there's no such thing.

Indeed. Well said. This has always been my point of view from the start of listening to rock music . . .

yep - heneedsadrink nailed it.

no...stones have a lot of bad songs, and they are not still 'good' as compared to others.

They should come out with a CD of 'Worst of the Rolling Stones'. They could call it "40 Farts"

..I think that albums considered as bad albums by some people and fans like
"Dirty work" are nevertheless good albums......

Quote
Rolling Hansie
Dunno nothing about good or bad songs. If it's the Stones I like it

So you like even Streets Of Love, Winning Ugly, Back To Zero, Cherry Oh Baby and loads of others? There's not one song you don't like?

Wow.

I think the band set the bar pretty high for themselves and some of what they've done if say a band like Foghat came out with it we'd say wow but some of the stuff we say is subpar is pretty good. Measuring everything to the 60's and the Exile era is actually pretty foolish.

To Skipstone:..I speak of albums not songs......jeanpierre M

Quote
skipstone
There's not one song you don't like?

That's right. There are of course songs that I like more than others. And there are songs that I really love. But that also changes with the mood I am in. Therefore I can never point out which is my favorite song. I can remember that I had some problems with Streets of Love in the beginning, but that changed right after I heard it live.

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

Quote
treaclefingers
no...stones have a lot of bad songs, and they are not still 'good' as compared to others.

They should come out with a CD of 'Worst of the Rolling Stones'. They could call it "40 Farts"

Good one !!!

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy