There's a wonderful clip of Keith playing 'You gotta move' from years gone by, having said that I don't know which year it's from, does anyone know by chance ? It's in the first post of this thread ... link below

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I was recently watching the 1981/1982 Hal Ashby movie Lets Spend The Night Together, and I'll just pick one isolated example of Keith's playing that for me personally, completely and utterly excels for sheer simplicity, yet groove and feel as well. It's the very short little solo right at the end of Let it Bleed, probably 15 seconds worth ... no more. Sorry, don't have a great net connection where I am at the moment and therefore can't post a link to it, but it shouldn't be too hard to find.

Anyway, these two clips got me thinking, could the Keith of today actually play like he did in these two ? There's been so much discussion about his deterioration, his playing in recent years, his arthritis, that it just got me thinking about what if anything we may be exposed to should they actually step out on tour again. I would like to believe that albeit that he is unquestionably not the player of countless years ago, he would still be capable of occasional flourishes of that unique magic and genius partly represented by these two little examples ? The accent is on that magical 'feel and groove', no longer 'technical proficiency' per se.

Views ?

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-05 22:12 by paulywaul.

keith at his best was never much of a soloist - yeah, he could hold down a berry solo with the best of them. but, his signature was always his power chords/riffing and he can't play those anymore in his condition - he spoke directly about that during the matt lauer interview years ago....

>> I don't know which year it's from, does anyone know <<

june 6th 1976



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-05 21:01 by with sssoul.

I wish he could play like he did before the arthritis set in but his playing during the last tour would indicate otherwise...

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ChrisM
I wish he could play like he did before the arthritis set in but his playing during the last tour would indicate otherwise...

and there's just no possibility it will improve; it only gets worse.

hip and knee replacements are common remedies for those joints now, but as far as i know they aren't making progress with knuckle replacements.

5% (maybe less)

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slewan
5% (maybe less)

ouch! i was gonna say 12% but i thought that was too malicious to say....but now i don't feel so bad:

12%

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StonesTod
he can't play those anymore in his condition - he spoke directly about that during the matt lauer interview years ago....

He did? That's news to me. What did he say?

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KeefintheNight82

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StonesTod
he can't play those anymore in his condition - he spoke directly about that during the matt lauer interview years ago....

He did? That's news to me. What did he say?

the gist of it was that matt was asking him about his fingers/hands and keef acknowledged that he had problems with them (think this on the licks tour) and that he had to play more gently to avoid further aggravation...and something to the effect that he promised patti to take better care of them. i imagine the interview is on youtube somewhere...but i'm not a tuber....

I think it has to do with ability, age, the drinking (heroin wasnt bad for him when it comes to playing guitar), too much coke. But also the format from 1989 where he has some parts where he's allowed to play a solo (SFTD) or a signature riff (HTW, JJF) every time but he's not allowed to play freely like he used to (70s, 81/82). As a guitarist you have to feel free to play the guitar and not just play a few parts the same way every concert.

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StonesTod
...but i'm not a tuber....

tuba.

He is an iconic figure as his past defines his presence. As a guitar Player I want remember the past.Pains me to see him struggle.

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ThankGod

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StonesTod
...but i'm not a tuber....

tuba.

ooo - and not just any tuba - but a very shiny one

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StonesTod

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KeefintheNight82

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StonesTod
he can't play those anymore in his condition - he spoke directly about that during the matt lauer interview years ago....

He did? That's news to me. What did he say?

the gist of it was that matt was asking him about his fingers/hands and keef acknowledged that he had problems with them (think this on the licks tour) and that he had to play more gently to avoid further aggravation...and something to the effect that he promised patti to take better care of them. i imagine the interview is on youtube somewhere...but i'm not a tuber....

Wow! Never heard that. And why isn't he writing anything about this in his book?

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StonesTod
keith at his best was never much of a soloist - yeah, he could hold down a berry solo with the best of them. but, his signature was always his power chords/riffing and he can't play those anymore in his condition - he spoke directly about that during the matt lauer interview years ago....

his signature was always his power chords/riffing and he can't play those anymore in his condition - he spoke directly about that during the matt lauer interview years ago

Well it's interesting you should make mention of power chords and riffing, because it's precisely there that I think he still kind of cuts it as well as can be expected. I remember ADTL from one of the three O2 shows in August 2007, and it was truly as blistering in delivery as ever a version was. Outstanding, at least to my ears. To me, where a 'deterioration' in his playing is infinitely more pronounced and evident, is say in places like the SFTD solos, but whether or not what they're doing/he's doing is due to 'the arrangement per se', or alternatively 'the arrangement determined specifically by his limitations of the present time' ... I find not quite so easy to determine.

It's all a bit confusing to be honest. I saw god knows how many shows on the ABB tour, and there were countless versions of songs they performed that were simply magnificent, and that were if anything an improvement on versions we've all heard in the past. Then there were innumerable clusterfucks too, but I think that no two clusterfucks were quite the same, and didn't necessarily come about for the same reason(s), namely specifically his 'deterioration' in playing proficiency. I'm inclined to think that wherever the truth lies, IF indeed they tour, they (or he in particular) will factor his own limitations of the day as they truly are - or as he and he alone quantifies them - and they will then pitch themselves accordingly. All in all, I certainly don't think THEY are done, neither that HE is done, but who am I to judge ? There's so much we don't know, that is - and that remains - highly speculative.

BTW, I don't recall seeing a Matt Lauer interview in which KR specifically spoke about these issues, but perhaps I missed it ? If you have a link to it, could you post it ? Would love to see it.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

If you listen to JJF from SAL, you get a bit Keith's problem, imo. He takes breaks, and he is not playing all the riffs. Same with BS. ADTL, too. He "fools" us a bit. Cheats a little.

I honestly don't know why. But if it's the arthtritis, he's forgiven

Looking at Keith playing songs like Learning The Game (Austin) lead my thoughts to a man in pain, because it looks like he's having a hard time straighten out the barre-finger when he plays open G.

I hope I'm wrong, though.

BTW, I don't recall seeing a Matt Lauer interview in which KR specifically spoke about these issues, but perhaps I missed it ? If you have a link to it, could you post it ? Would love to see it.

Yeah same here Pauly thought I'd followed all the Lauer stuff with
Keith & Mick... tod thinks back around Licks would really love ta see it ...



ROCKMAN

I remember the Australian 60 minutes did an interview with the stones in Japan early 2006 - you may well have seen it too Rockman and others from OZ here - where Ellen Fanning I think it was asked Keith directly if he had arthritis.Keith sort of brushed it off in a blase fashion more or less saying " yeah,Im a hard working man".Any interview where Keith discusses his hands seriously would be interesting to watch and greatly appreciated.

Yeah klrkcr that was a good one with Fanning .......



ROCKMAN

oh c'mon. the TODAY show is a highly rated one - none of you bothered to wake up the day the stones were on it? what a bunch of slugabeds. i think it was in may of 2002...matt has done several interviews with mick and keith, but i think it was the '02 one where the issue of his arthritis came up...

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DandelionPowderman
If you listen to JJF from SAL, you get a bit Keith's problem, imo. He takes breaks, and he is not playing all the riffs. Same with BS. ADTL, too. He "fools" us a bit. Cheats a little.

I honestly don't know why. But if it's the arthtritis, he's forgiven

he's suffered from arthritis for at least 15 years. I remember being told as far back as '98 that it was so bad he could no longer remove his skull ring.

Yeah, I know. As it seems, he's still having good and bad days, though. Somtimes his fingers work ok, sometimes not.

The tips of his fingers look like corks. Check it out here:

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paulywaul

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StonesTod
keith at his best was never much of a soloist - yeah, he could hold down a berry solo with the best of them. but, his signature was always his power chords/riffing and he can't play those anymore in his condition - he spoke directly about that during the matt lauer interview years ago....

his signature was always his power chords/riffing and he can't play those anymore in his condition - he spoke directly about that during the matt lauer interview years ago

Well it's interesting you should make mention of power chords and riffing, because it's precisely there that I think he still kind of cuts it as well as can be expected. I remember ADTL from one of the three O2 shows in August 2007, and it was truly as blistering in delivery as ever a version was. Outstanding, at least to my ears. To me, where a 'deterioration' in his playing is infinitely more pronounced and evident, is say in places like the SFTD solos, but whether or not what they're doing/he's doing is due to 'the arrangement per se', or alternatively 'the arrangement determined specifically by his limitations of the present time' ... I find not quite so easy to determine.

It's all a bit confusing to be honest. I saw god knows how many shows on the ABB tour, and there were countless versions of songs they performed that were simply magnificent, and that were if anything an improvement on versions we've all heard in the past. Then there were innumerable clusterfucks too, but I think that no two clusterfucks were quite the same, and didn't necessarily come about for the same reason(s), namely specifically his 'deterioration' in playing proficiency. I'm inclined to think that wherever the truth lies, IF indeed they tour, they (or he in particular) will factor his own limitations of the day as they truly are - or as he and he alone quantifies them - and they will then pitch themselves accordingly. All in all, I certainly don't think THEY are done, neither that HE is done, but who am I to judge ? There's so much we don't know, that is - and that remains - highly speculative.

BTW, I don't recall seeing a Matt Lauer interview in which KR specifically spoke about these issues, but perhaps I missed it ? If you have a link to it, could you post it ? Would love to see it.

as DPM says, he's learned to cheat a little. in the ABB shows I say it was clear that he picked out certain songs where he focused and tried to be the keith of old - sometimes with a reasonable amount of success. his condition clearly has affected his (version of) lead playing, too - i remember at the wiltern (where i was but a few feet from him) i could see him "reach" for notes/runs that just were beyond him. but, the pro that he is, he kinda faked his way around it. it was both sad to watch and gave me an appreciation for him as well.

personally, i don't think the head injury affected his playing. what i saw pre- and post-injury on the ABB was pretty much the same keith....

Certainly seems to have affected his ability to play and sing at the same time, because from the US leg in Sept 2006 onwards he pretty much stopped doing so.

Quite likely a co-ordination problem arose following the onset of the seizures he acknowledged he was taking medication to prevent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-06 17:35 by Gazza.

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Gazza
Certainly seems to have affected his ability to play and sing at the same time, because from the US leg in Sept 2006 onwards he pretty much stopped doing so.

Quite likely a co-ordination problem arose following the onset of the seizures he acknowledged he was taking medication to prevent.

plausible theory...then again, even in his best days, either his singing or his playing suffered when he tried to do both....so i just took it as a recognition of that reality....

Oh, I dunno. I think his onstage singing during his solo set improved ten-fold post-1989 after he had the experience of being a frontman in his own band. Before then, he often sang into the microphone almost as an afterthought.

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Gazza
Oh, I dunno. I think his onstage singing during his solo set improved ten-fold post-1989 after he had the experience of being a frontman in his own band. Before then, he often sang into the microphone almost as an afterthought.

i may have to go take a look at some video from the wino's days for a refresher...

His first finger can't make that flat line you need to push down on all the strings in open G to make a chord ring. You can do some of those intros with just the 2nd, 3rd and 4th string at once if you need to (BS, SMU), and he seems to do okay with single note lines. But for many chords/songs maybe he should just start playing slide; might be less aggravating on his knuckles.

Let It Bleed from Hampton 81, not quite what I was looking for ... but close enough.





Keith takes a little solo from about 5:48 to 06:00, then he's still playing ... but you tend to hear more of Ronnie from 06:00 till the song end 18 seconds later. That particular solo Keith plays (here on this clip I've posted from 05:48 to 06:00) but on the version of LIB that appears in the movie Lets Spend The Night Together, is in my opinion one of those all too short moments that represent his own form of magic, it just hits you where and when and how it matters. These are the flashes of genius that have always to my mind been part of the great man's signature sound. I do kind of find it hard to believe that these types of short-lived and intermittent flashes of genius, that constitute an audio-visual delight as far as I'm concerned, are actually beyond the man's capabilities these days. A lot of other stuff possibly, but not things like this ........ ?

Anyways, as the sayin' goes .... 'that's MY theory an' I'm stickin' to it' !!!

But do feel free to disagree, or heaven forbid .... even agree !

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]