Following on from the flute discussion on the Coming Down Again thread I thought a new thread for Rolling Stones recording mysteries might be apt! Please post your questions here and hopefully they'll get some answers.

Here's a few for starters:-

- what is the keyboard sound during the verses in Time Waits For No-one. I guess it's probably a keyboard but I wonder which one and what setting etc?

- how was the main riff in the studio version of JJF recorded..... I think we can guess it's an electric guitar playing in unison with a piano?

- can anyone shed some light on the the main rhythm guitar on Midnight Rambler (LIB version)..... what guitar, amp and settings?!

What is the sound at the very beginning of Shine a Light, before the piano intro?

SAL intro sound......... I think this a tape echo unit. What the sound source is I don't know, but tape echo can feed back in on itself and create this effect. It's also used in Please Go Home..where Mick singing "home" repeats and gets louder.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-15 17:09 by WeLoveYou.

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WeLoveYou


- how was the main riff in the studio version of JJF recorded..... I think we can guess it's an electric guitar playing in unison with a piano?

electric guitars, electrified acoustic via philips tape machine(lowest compressed, kinda muffled sound), piano.

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His Majesty

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WeLoveYou


- how was the main riff in the studio version of JJF recorded..... I think we can guess it's an electric guitar playing in unison with a piano?

electric guitars, electrified acoustic via philips tape machine(lowest compressed, kinda muffled sound), piano.

HM you sent me those out of phase files a while back (thanks)...which sheds some light, but the piano and elec guitar seem so in sync as to sound like one instrument. The Stones new how to create unique sounds in those days.

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WeLoveYou


HM you sent me those out of phase files a while back (thanks)...which sheds some light, but the piano and elec guitar seem so in sync as to sound like one instrument. The Stones new how to create unique sounds in those days.

Indeed, it's one of the magical things about their recordings, what they did in studio on a lot of stuff can't really be re-created.

The guitar parts for the studio version of JJF sound quite weak on their own.

Interesting .I didn't know about this.

Still trying to figure out that drone at the end of SFM.

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MILKYWAY
Still trying to figure out that drone at the end of SFM.

That's a shehnai played by Dave Mason.

One of these...

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MILKYWAY
Still trying to figure out that drone at the end of SFM.

Dave Masons´s shehani perhaps?

@MILKYWAY --

I was going to guess vuvuzela but His Majesty & DandelionPowderman set the record straight.

Greetings from the Jersey Shore.

Brian allegedly plays tamboura (also a droning instrument), and, according to Wikipedia (yes, I know) he also plays sitar on SFM. So, is that Brian, or Dave Mason playing that really cool drone at the end?

Where's the sitar in SFM? I hear Keith's both acoustic guitars, Brian's tamboura during the choruses very clearly, but I can't seem to hear the sitar...

The sitar on SFM is buried in the mix, you can hear very slight glimpses of it during the intro, comes in after a few seconds twanging rhythmically, and it appears to play along with the melodic piano lines after the chorus's.

The droning, whiny instrument at the end is a shehnai, in a mid 90's Rolling Stone interview Mick said that Dave Mason played it.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-15 20:39 by His Majesty.

Thanks, I always thought it was a guitar doing those lines with the piano.

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stones78
Thanks, I always thought it was a guitar doing those lines with the piano.

Well, they are too to an extent, but once you recognize the sitar within the mix, you'll hear it easier.

It's really quiet and confined within the distorted acoustic sound, listen to the intro for a twanging sound that comes in after a few seconds...

It plays semitones on one note/chord along with the acoustics more syncopated rhythm. Once the singing etc kicks in it practically disappears from hearing(mine atleast) until the post chorus piano motif etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-15 20:41 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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stones78
Thanks, I always thought it was a guitar doing those lines with the piano.

Well, they are too to an extent, but once you recognize the sitar within the mix, you'll hear it easier.

It's really quiet and confined within the distorted acoustic sound, listen to the intro for a twanging sound that comes in after a few seconds...

It plays semitones on one note/chord along with the acoustics more syncopated rhythm. Once the singing etc kicks in it practically disappears from hearing(mine atleast) until the post chorus piano motif etc.

Olympic was only four track at the time, so the sitar must be on the piano track or buried on a sub mix perhaps?

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tomk

Olympic was only four track at the time, so the sitar must be on the piano track or buried on a sub mix perhaps?

Probably, but there was nothing stopping them using 2, 4 track machines at same time.

Going by Keith's descriptions, the sitar was recorded on to the philips tape machine at same time as the first acoustic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-15 22:06 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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tomk

Olympic was only four track at the time, so the sitar must be on the piano track or buried on a sub mix perhaps?

Probably, but there was nothing stopping them using 2, 4 track machines at same time.

Going by Keith's descriptions, the sitar was recorded on to the philips tape machine at same time as the first acoustic.

Indeed. The gear in the Olympic large room at the time included 2 four track Ampex macines (1/2 in), stereo and mono 351 valve units, and a Phillips 2-track.
The first Zeppelin album definitely used this gear, too (as well as dozens of other bands). Mindboggling, actually.

So.............where's Brian's tamboura part on SFM?

It's on the choruses, that drone sound.

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24FPS
So.............where's Brian's tamboura part on SFM?

During the chorus (What can a poor boy do...).

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gimmelittledrink
What is the sound at the very beginning of Shine a Light, before the piano intro?

It is guessing, but the Binson tape echo's used at most studios of the time, as well as the Watkins/WEM Copycat tape echo's of the time had a 'feedback' knob. This knob regulated the amount of signal that was fed back to the record and play back heads. If you set this knob to max, it feeds about all of the signal back, and you end up with a continueous loop of sound, that degenerates over time. It really sound like that what you hear in the intro of SAL -a guitar through a Binson tape echo with feedback at max.

Mathijs

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WeLoveYou
Following on from the flute discussion on the Coming Down Again thread I thought a new thread for Rolling Stones recording mysteries might be apt! Please post your questions here and hopefully they'll get some answers.

Here's a few for starters:-

- what is the keyboard sound during the verses in Time Waits For No-one. I guess it's probably a keyboard but I wonder which one and what setting etc?

- how was the main riff in the studio version of JJF recorded..... I think we can guess it's an electric guitar playing in unison with a piano?

- can anyone shed some light on the the main rhythm guitar on Midnight Rambler (LIB version)..... what guitar, amp and settings?!

Concerning TWFNO -according to Keith it was a 'hy fly guitar synth', but I have no idea what that is. There where guitar synths at the time, and the Electro-Harmonix micro synthesizer can give quite simular sounds. It could also be some kind of keyboard synth, but I don't know which synths where available back then.

Concerning Midnight Rambler, the guitar was the Les Paul Custom with the neck pickup selected. Amp is more difficult to say. It really does sound like the reverb comes from the amp, and there are hints of solid state, so my best bet would be the Vox Supreme. But it could be they wheeled in some Fender or Watkins amp that we don't know off.

Mathijs

'During the chorus (What can a poor boy do...).' - Wow, so that reduces Brian's participation on Street Fightin Man to simply a couple strums on the tamboura during the choruses. I'd always dug that drone at the end and always believed it was a nice addition by Brian. How he can go from being all over Satanic Majesties Request to barely participating on BB is beyond me. Unless his body and psyche were suddenly exhausted by all that he'd abused himself with. Hard to fathom. Maybe he'd wanted out of the group for some time and he didn't have the gumption to just leave and had to wait to be fired. That's when he seems to get it together a little bit. It makes the ending all the more tragic.

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24FPS
'During the chorus (What can a poor boy do...).' - Wow, so that reduces Brian's participation on Street Fightin Man to simply a couple strums on the tamboura during the choruses. I'd always dug that drone at the end and always believed it was a nice addition by Brian. How he can go from being all over Satanic Majesties Request to barely participating on BB is beyond me. Unless his body and psyche were suddenly exhausted by all that he'd abused himself with. Hard to fathom. Maybe he'd wanted out of the group for some time and he didn't have the gumption to just leave and had to wait to be fired. That's when he seems to get it together a little bit. It makes the ending all the more tragic.

It's been discussed many times here before, but Brian is on BB a lot more than people think. He's not coloring the songs as much as he did on Aftermath, Buttons, or Satanic, but he is on there. I believe Brian's on more BB songs than Bill is on Dirty Work (FWIW).

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tomk

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24FPS
'During the chorus (What can a poor boy do...).' - Wow, so that reduces Brian's participation on Street Fightin Man to simply a couple strums on the tamboura during the choruses. I'd always dug that drone at the end and always believed it was a nice addition by Brian. How he can go from being all over Satanic Majesties Request to barely participating on BB is beyond me. Unless his body and psyche were suddenly exhausted by all that he'd abused himself with. Hard to fathom. Maybe he'd wanted out of the group for some time and he didn't have the gumption to just leave and had to wait to be fired. That's when he seems to get it together a little bit. It makes the ending all the more tragic.

It's been discussed many times here before, but Brian is on BB a lot more than people think. He's not coloring the songs as much as he did on Aftermath, Buttons, or Satanic, but he is on there. I believe Brian's on more BB songs than Bill is on Dirty Work (FWIW).

He probably is more in BB than what we generally think, just like he is less on Satanic than we actually like to think.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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tomk

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24FPS
'During the chorus (What can a poor boy do...).' - Wow, so that reduces Brian's participation on Street Fightin Man to simply a couple strums on the tamboura during the choruses. I'd always dug that drone at the end and always believed it was a nice addition by Brian. How he can go from being all over Satanic Majesties Request to barely participating on BB is beyond me. Unless his body and psyche were suddenly exhausted by all that he'd abused himself with. Hard to fathom. Maybe he'd wanted out of the group for some time and he didn't have the gumption to just leave and had to wait to be fired. That's when he seems to get it together a little bit. It makes the ending all the more tragic.

It's been discussed many times here before, but Brian is on BB a lot more than people think. He's not coloring the songs as much as he did on Aftermath, Buttons, or Satanic, but he is on there. I believe Brian's on more BB songs than Bill is on Dirty Work (FWIW).

He probably is more in BB than what we generally think, just like he is less on Satanic than we actually like to think.

Mathijs

I think Buttons is the album he's on the least, (I'm not counting Let It Bleed)though correct me if I'm wrong.
And what was the last song Brian actually played guitar on, before No Expectations?

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Mathijs


He probably is more in BB than what we generally think, just like he is less on Satanic than we actually like to think.

Mathijs

The oddness for me is that even though Brian probably plays on 7 or 8 tracks on both Their Satanic Majesties Request and Beggars Banquet, it's the impression of his prominence that is somehow different between the albums.

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tomk


I think Buttons is the album he's on the least, (I'm not counting Let It Bleed)though correct me if I'm wrong.
And what was the last song Brian actually played guitar on, before No Expectations?

Hard to say as to which album he's on the least, but his last guitar part before No Expectations was probably on Please Go Home.

On Let It Bleed he's credited with auto-harp on You Got The Silver & "percussion" on Midnight Rambler, now why didn't it make it into the final mix? Is there a bootleg or something in which you can actually hear it? Or maybe it is there but it's absolutely buried.