I know that the cowbell is played by Jimmy Miller. But I heard that he also played the drums on the track. Is that true? It's definitely not Charlie's drumming style and the fact that I never heard a live version that sounded as good as the recorded one makes me think that it is really not Charlie who played it.

Maybe Bill played drums!

Jimmy Miller has played the drums on the HTW original version. CW has played on Country Honk.

Charlie plays the Drums, he sais so himself in the "according to the Rolling Stones" book. He explains that he is playing the drums, Jimmy is on the Cowbel and one of them comes in at the wrong place but it worked so they left it as it was.

Jimmy does however play drums on the b-side (You Can't Always Get What You Want).
Maybe that's where the confusion lies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-27 14:28 by vudicus.

Charlie played on HTW but Jimmy showed him how to play . .

For someone so important to the Stones, there isn't that much out there about Jimmy Miller. I'd love to read more about his life. looked into blogs, etc. and will keep looking.

He must have taught Charly how to play the drums or played himself while he produced the Stones. Thats why this period in the Stones career is so special together with MT playing the guitar. It just sounds so much different than before or afterwards.

It's Charlie and it's the best drumming (and best recorded drum SOUND) on ANY Rolling Stones record.

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Bimmelzerbott
the fact that I never heard a live version that sounded as good as the recorded one makes me think that it is really not Charlie who played it.

It has always sucked live, but I think that has more to do with the guitars than with Charlie. Any time you've got a record with overdubbed guitar parts (HTW sounds as if it's got several guitars overdubbed on top of one another) it's always difficult to recreate it live.

In terms of drumming style, I think Jimmy Miller played with a somewhat lighter hand than Charlie Watts. Less ponderous . .

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jamesjagger
He must have taught Charly how to play the drums or played himself while he produced the Stones. Thats why this period in the Stones career is so special together with MT playing the guitar. It just sounds so much different than before or afterwards.

"The Holy Trinity"

Jimmy Miller, Mick Taylor, Nicky Hopkins

Charlie! Sacreligious!

[www.non-filters.com]

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tatters

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Bimmelzerbott
the fact that I never heard a live version that sounded as good as the recorded one makes me think that it is really not Charlie who played it.

It has always sucked live, but I think that has more to do with the guitars than with Charlie. Any time you've got a record with overdubbed guitar parts (HTW sounds as if it's got several guitars overdubbed on top of one another) it's always difficult to recreate it live.

I disagree. To me it has to do with the drums and not with the guitars. The recorded version just rocks. The drum entry, after the cowbell intro. is just awesome. There is some punch and groove in it that they never ever were able to recreate live. There is ALWAYS something missing when they play it, and I think it's because Charlie never played it the way it was recorded.

To me you're right!

He always played different and I never really liked his live drumming on HTW.

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Bimmelzerbott

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tatters

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Bimmelzerbott
the fact that I never heard a live version that sounded as good as the recorded one makes me think that it is really not Charlie who played it.

It has always sucked live, but I think that has more to do with the guitars than with Charlie. Any time you've got a record with overdubbed guitar parts (HTW sounds as if it's got several guitars overdubbed on top of one another) it's always difficult to recreate it live.

I disagree. To me it has to do with the drums and not with the guitars. The recorded version just rocks. The drum entry, after the cowbell intro. is just awesome. There is some punch and groove in it that they never ever were able to recreate live. There is ALWAYS something missing when they play it, and I think it's because Charlie never played it the way it was recorded.

I don't think Charlie CAN play it the way it was recorded. He has to play it the way Keith likes to play it. It's Keith who is just sluffing it off onstage. He's always the one who starts it off by just playing the opening notes, very slowly, over and over again. There's no way Charlie can stick to the recorded version when Keith is so far off from it. If Charlie started it off, and made Keith follow what HE was doing, it might sound a little more like the original, but that's not how the Stones operate.

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Bimmelzerbott

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tatters

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Bimmelzerbott
the fact that I never heard a live version that sounded as good as the recorded one makes me think that it is really not Charlie who played it.

It has always sucked live, but I think that has more to do with the guitars than with Charlie. Any time you've got a record with overdubbed guitar parts (HTW sounds as if it's got several guitars overdubbed on top of one another) it's always difficult to recreate it live.

I disagree. To me it has to do with the drums and not with the guitars. The recorded version just rocks. The drum entry, after the cowbell intro. is just awesome. There is some punch and groove in it that they never ever were able to recreate live. There is ALWAYS something missing when they play it, and I think it's because Charlie never played it the way it was recorded.

Charlies "explanation" for that is that he came in half a beat off and thus was never able to repeat that in concert. I posted an article that claimed that Jimmy Miller did a lot more drumming for the Stones than he is given credit for, and it caused quite a hullabaloo.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-28 15:47 by mitchflorida.

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CousinC
Charlie played on HTW but Jimmy showed him how to play . .

CORRECT! Story was Charlie was having a difficult time finding the proper beat for Honky Tonk. Jimmy showed him, then Watts took it from there. Yes, morons, it is Charlie playing.

The push/pull between the drums and guitar on the intro is sublime- Keith and Woody have always dumbed that part waaay down when they play it live. Too bad, its a classic.

All this talk about Jimmy having to "show Charlie how to play" makes it sound as if he was standing there pointing with his finger at the drums. "Okay, first, hit this one! Now, hit this one!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-30 02:17 by tatters.

I actually prefer the Love You Live version over the single.

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skipstone
I actually prefer the Love You Live version over the single.

That is a great version. Keith's solo smokes.

Yeah Keith's solo smokes - it's my all time favourite Keith solo actually. In fact, I dare say that that song is their best live recording ever. Mainly because of how Charlie changed the beat and Keith just makes the song and riffing much more sleazy to match Charlie's rhythm.

And ironically, Mick sings it fantastic. It's just way more laid back and not so cumbersome and that kind of cinder block foundation that is so tight and cubicle of the studio recording.

I wonder what Jimmy actually showed Charlie?
To my ear, the only kind of different part is the
bass drum pattern. Instead of playing on 1 and 3
it's got that delayed 1st beat and double second beat.
Not really that unique but different from what the Stones
usually do and does fit the guitar pattern well.

As for the live version, I watched a you tube video of it.
Wonder if they played better because they were not all spread
out across a large stage, but we're closer together?

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

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Bimmelzerbott

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tatters

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Bimmelzerbott
the fact that I never heard a live version that sounded as good as the recorded one makes me think that it is really not Charlie who played it.

It has always sucked live, but I think that has more to do with the guitars than with Charlie. Any time you've got a record with overdubbed guitar parts (HTW sounds as if it's got several guitars overdubbed on top of one another) it's always difficult to recreate it live.

I disagree. To me it has to do with the drums and not with the guitars. The recorded version just rocks. The drum entry, after the cowbell intro. is just awesome. There is some punch and groove in it that they never ever were able to recreate live. There is ALWAYS something missing when they play it, and I think it's because Charlie never played it the way it was recorded.

charlie obviously plays the wrong pattern live. he does this with many songs.

absolutely not a fan of his drumming the last 20 years or so.

he used to be quite good though.

I have always had the opinion that the drums on HTW are very much unlike Charlie, and very much like Miller....But there's various statements it is Charlie...I do remain conspicious though.

Mathijs

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mitchflorida

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jamesjagger
He must have taught Charly how to play the drums or played himself while he produced the Stones. Thats why this period in the Stones career is so special together with MT playing the guitar. It just sounds so much different than before or afterwards.

"The Holy Trinity"

Jimmy Miller, Mick Taylor, Nicky Hopkins

Mick Taylor basically has nothing to do with HTW - the songs was more or less finsihed and he came on with some few overdubs (probably ones that Keith could have played himself). Mick T himself has stated that in an interview from 1979.

I read the opposite. This was Mick Taylor's audition with the Stones and he hit it out of the park.


The studio version never fails to impress me. Live version? Keith's monotonous intro sounds like a lullaby in comparison.

charlie obviously plays the wrong pattern live. he does this with many songs.

absolutely not a fan of his drumming the last 20 years or so.

he used to be quite good though.[/quote]

Are you insane? In the last twenty years, Watts' playing has taken off into the Stratosphere.

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Carnaby
Are you insane? In the last twenty years, Watts' playing has taken off into the Stratosphere.

yeah, he's totally another vinnie colaiuta.

If Jimmy Miller actually did the drumming, would they really want to publicize that? It would damage the credibility of Charlie Watts in the eyes of the public.


Dave Clark frequently had a session drummer do his work in the recording studio, but he certainly never publicized it or game him credit on the album notes.