Fantasizing once again about what a proper Rolling Stones series of archival releases would look like. There is wonderful very early material that has appeared on various bootlegs (Beautiful Delilah, The Black Box, etc.) that has tracks like "Cops & Robbers", "Diddley Daddy", "Memphis", "Roll Over Beethoven". Some of these were live recordings or BBC recordings. My question: Is this material covered by their Decca contract and therefore controlled by ABKCO? If so, what are the chances of an official release of some of these amazing tracks? ("Cops & Robbers" being my personal favorite).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-02 06:55 by 71Tele.

I would assume ABKCO own the rights to it. I'm not sure how it works exactly, but my understanding is ABKCO + whoever paid for the studio time (BBC or Decca)... For the BBC sessions, maybe it wouldn't need Decca approval, only BBC & ABKCO? If the legal powers that control Led Zeppelin were able to agree upon a "Live At The BBC" release, surely we can have a similar outcome for The Stones?

I believe Mick bought the Little Boy Blue tape in auction and Bill has a 3 track acetate with you Can't Judge A Book etc.

these tracks from the BBC are pretty easily available

Do the BBC still have the master tapes? They're notorious for wiping and reusing tapes of classic TV shows from the 60s (including Top of the Pops). Did they do the same with audio tapes? The BBC recordings I've got are from Radio / audio enthusiasts' own recordings of the show.

If the BBC ain't got them, then they can't put them out!

The BBC has most of the masters (certainly "Cops and Robbers" which they've repeated many times and even licensed to other stations such as Westwood One). A release would require the cooperation of the BBC, ABKCO, and the Stones.

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keefriffhard4life
these tracks from the BBC are pretty easily available

They're also not complete, however.

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teleblaster
Do the BBC still have the master tapes? They're notorious for wiping and reusing tapes of classic TV shows from the 60s (including Top of the Pops). Did they do the same with audio tapes? The BBC recordings I've got are from Radio / audio enthusiasts' own recordings of the show.

If the BBC ain't got them, then they can't put them out!

The BBC have re-broadcast several of the early radio sessions over the last few years, including a 'Stones at the Beeb' special in November 1985 which unearthed several songs which hadnt been in circulation at the point.

So, it would be a safe bet to assume they've still got the masters of (at least) most of the sessions the Stones did for them between 1963 and 1965.

I kind of like this one. Sounds circa late '63
Featuring Ian Stewart . .







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-02 15:24 by mitchflorida.

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Gazza

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keefriffhard4life
these tracks from the BBC are pretty easily available

They're also not complete, however.

well cream released an official incomplete bbc sessions so who knows what the stones will do

It would be great to have it out officially. The group at that stage were so young and enthusiastic about their love for American blues and R&B. Just to hear 19-year old Jagger pronounce those Americanisms from Bo Diddley and Jimmy Reed songs is a delight in itself.

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keefriffhard4life

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Gazza

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keefriffhard4life
these tracks from the BBC are pretty easily available

They're also not complete, however.

well cream released an official incomplete bbc sessions so who knows what the stones will do

So did The Beatles.

All I was saying was that what's available isn't ALL that was recorded. So, there's a likelihood that IF they decided to release a BBC Sessions album, it wouldnt necessarily just be a case of officially putting out stuff thats already available.

ABKCO had a BBC Sessions release on tap in the mid-nineties. I remember reading about it around the time that ROCK 'N' ROLL CIRCUS first surfaced (officially)Jody Klein talked to ICE about it and then later confirmed that the the project had been dropped. My impression is that the Stones were responsible for scuppering it with the intent that it would be released "down the line." ABKCO's done the expanded YA-YA'S, I would think they would want something else in the next couple of years.

OK To my knowledge here's how it works. If it's The Stones doing a song that ABKCO owns the publishing rights to then ABKCO has got to strike a deal with whomever owns the master tapes such as the BBC. If it's The Stones doing a cover song(It's All Over Now, Walking The Dog) then the company who wishes to release the material will have to pay The BBC for the master tapes and whomever owns any publishing rights in order to release those tracks. That becomes problematic for a company like ABKCO for many reasons. They don't have the budget of let's say Warner Brothers, so spending money is an issue. Lets not forget that AKCO is a small record company with limited funds. With regards to sales, ABKCO figures tyhat a project like this is too costly and a gamble. THey figure that only the true die hards are going to purchase this product. If another company tries to release only the non ABKCO related songs that company has to figure that only real die hards are going to buy a Stones Product without any Big Hits Such As The Last Time, Satisfaction,PLay With Fire etc...
PLus I think that The Stones have some sort of deal with ABKCO that nothing that has not already been released will see the light of day without approval from The Stones.

It All starts with ABKCO..They hold the keys, however they refuse to see the light. Look at the Get Yer Ya Yas Out Box Set; A Great Idea,However, 5 extra songs by the Stones does not equal the price. Then, their sales are not what was expected, and they get nervous about releasing any more material. They just do not go all out, which equals a sub par product which equals bad sales. Not to mention that they don't spend enough on promotion.

Question ; Do you think if Warner Brothers owned The Stones 60s collection we would be debating this stuff. By now Warner would have exhausted the Audio & Video Vaults. We would have outakes gallore!! Studio, Concerts etc...But instead we have ABKCO!! THe REcord Label FRom Outer Space!!


Soulsurvivor

but a few big hits were done on the BBC. i just listened to "the last time" from the BBC.

since the BBC performances are technically live i wouldn't think abkco owns them since it was the BBC recording them.

It doesn't work that way exactly. The BBC owns broadcasting rights and the rights to the actual recordings made using their facilities. In order to commercially release material recorded for broadcast use only, the rightsholder of the artist's studio material at the time the recordings were made (usually the label the artist recorded for at the time or their successor in interest) must consent to or participate in the commercial release of radio broadcasts.

In this case, the band itself is contractually required to approve the release as well. So the BBC can't just bring out THE ROLLING STONES BBC SESSIONS on CD without involving both ABKCO and the Stones. The band's relations with ABKCO have improved and Universal distributing the entire catalog certainly helps matters. I'm sure there have been discussions over what comes out of the vault next as far as ABKCO is concerned. THE BBC SESSIONS has been on the backburner for a long time. I would venture to guess we will officially see it on CD before the decade is out. I would expect within the next 2-5 years just as a logical move and claiming absolutely no insider knowledge whatsoever.

I recall that some of these were compiled by Bill Wyman for the project that became Metamorphosis (the "Black Box") and instead we were given dreck like demos from the Andrew Oldham Orchestra because the Jagger/Richards publishing paid Klein more than songs that were not original compositions.