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If he had written Satisfaction, he'd probably given co-writers' credit to the drummer for making the track rock that little bit more! Jagger-Richards stole "The Last Time" AND didn't give credit to their own bandmates where due. Yet somehow I love the both bands to death. Gotta put on some Zeppelin when I get home.
Nice copy and paste from "Songfacts.com"...including the punctuation errors!
Noticed on there it mentions Valens' "Ooh My Head" borrowed heavily from Little Richard's "Ooh My Soul" -- so definitely a lot of "borrowing" going on all around.
Like John Lennon once said about the subject of "recycling" old chords and such..."It's all a rip-off!"
For public domain stuff if it's a note for note steal...
Traditional: Arranged by (insert band name)
... is often used.
a guitar solo can not be copyrighted. "beat it" does not list EVH as a songwriter.
Zep's "Whole Lotta Love" and Muddy's "You Need Love" are the same song. Even some of the lyrics are the same. I was watching a Jeff Beck concert on PBS recently. It was the one where Clapton joins him for the encore. Interestingly, the two Yardbirds guitarists played "You Need Love", acknowledging the third Yardbirds guitarist, and exposing him at the same time.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-02 02:16 by tatters.
Fuc*ing hell! The clip and some of the others in this thread, are really opening my eyes. Yikes, why didn't these guys sue?
The thing about Noel Gallagher is that he readily admits to nicking the odd riff. I have never read or viewed a Jimmy Page interview where he fully acknowledges the songwriters he borrows ideas from.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: July 1, 2010 14:12
Most if not all bands steal ideas, the stones included.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
mitchflorida
()
Date: July 1, 2010 14:35
It is okay to use traditional blues material, like Look What You've Done . . but Zeppelin did much more than that. They stole the most recent material they could get their hands on.
I am surprised Jimmy Paige didn't just redo Satisfaction by the Stones, change a couple of lyrics, and then award himself music rights to it.
I am surprised Jimmy Paige didn't just redo Satisfaction by the Stones, change a couple of lyrics, and then award himself music rights to it.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: July 1, 2010 14:37
total rip off
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
Child Of Clay
()
Date: July 1, 2010 14:42
Quote
mitchflorida
It is okay to use traditional blues material, like Look What You've Done . . but Zeppelin did much more than that. They stole the most recent material they could get their hands on.
I am surprised Jimmy Paige didn't just redo Satisfaction by the Stones, change a couple of lyrics, and then award himself music rights to it.
If he had written Satisfaction, he'd probably given co-writers' credit to the drummer for making the track rock that little bit more! Jagger-Richards stole "The Last Time" AND didn't give credit to their own bandmates where due. Yet somehow I love the both bands to death. Gotta put on some Zeppelin when I get home.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
mitchflorida
()
Date: July 1, 2010 14:53
Who did they steal The Last Time from, and why wasn't there ever a lawsuit against them???
The Stones and Andrew Oldham sued the Verve for using The Last Time in their hit Bittersweet Symphony, and won all royalties for Bittersweet Symphony.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-01 14:54 by mitchflorida.
The Stones and Andrew Oldham sued the Verve for using The Last Time in their hit Bittersweet Symphony, and won all royalties for Bittersweet Symphony.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-01 14:54 by mitchflorida.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
Filip020169
()
Date: July 1, 2010 15:10
Child Of Clay
If he [Jimmy Page] had written Satisfaction, he'd probably given co-writers' credit to the drummer for making the track rock that little bit more!
Jagger-Richards (...) didn't give credit to their own bandmates where due.
...you got a good point (or two, as a matter of fact) here!
Child Of Clay
Jagger-Richards stole "The Last Time" (...)
...gotta disagree here;
sure- the chorus & swagger of that song is almost a 100% copy of the Staple Singers "This may be the last time"; but even back then this gospel was regarded as a 'traditional', where no one really ownes the rights to it. the Staples family didn't WRITE that song, and gazillion other artists (listen to James Brown's "Maybe the last time?" from 1964, f.i.) had made a recording of it; the Staple Singers just had the best-known rendition of it to that day... Whether this qualifies & suffices as a rightful claim to get songwriting credits during all generations to come, I really doubt.
Plus: Jagger/Richards made it their own classic when they added that typical intro, gave it that popsong structure & flow, and wrote different lyrics- thus changing the whole 'story' (meaning) of the song.
I really think a Jagger/Richards credit was apropriate here. But maybe an "honourable mention of inspiration by" would have been too...
If he [Jimmy Page] had written Satisfaction, he'd probably given co-writers' credit to the drummer for making the track rock that little bit more!
Jagger-Richards (...) didn't give credit to their own bandmates where due.
...you got a good point (or two, as a matter of fact) here!
Child Of Clay
Jagger-Richards stole "The Last Time" (...)
...gotta disagree here;
sure- the chorus & swagger of that song is almost a 100% copy of the Staple Singers "This may be the last time"; but even back then this gospel was regarded as a 'traditional', where no one really ownes the rights to it. the Staples family didn't WRITE that song, and gazillion other artists (listen to James Brown's "Maybe the last time?" from 1964, f.i.) had made a recording of it; the Staple Singers just had the best-known rendition of it to that day... Whether this qualifies & suffices as a rightful claim to get songwriting credits during all generations to come, I really doubt.
Plus: Jagger/Richards made it their own classic when they added that typical intro, gave it that popsong structure & flow, and wrote different lyrics- thus changing the whole 'story' (meaning) of the song.
I really think a Jagger/Richards credit was apropriate here. But maybe an "honourable mention of inspiration by" would have been too...
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
scottkeef
()
Date: July 1, 2010 15:27
Love In Vain was credited to Woody Payne on Let It Bleed,then Johnson on Ya yAs before being "arranged" by Jag-Rich on Stripped or something like that. "Look What You've Done" was credited to Muddy Waters real name om Decembers Children. And when the first covers of Beggars gave Mick and Keith credit for Prodigal Son, they insisted it be changed to Rev Davis. As far as "Last Time" I heard it was loosely based on The Staples 'This Could Be The Last Time". but havent heard that one so dont know how close it really is.....
Original album in 1975 did not give credit to Ritchie Valens. His estate sued, a settlement was reached, and then his mother's name was added to the writers credits.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-01 15:31 by scottkeef.
Original album in 1975 did not give credit to Ritchie Valens. His estate sued, a settlement was reached, and then his mother's name was added to the writers credits.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-01 15:31 by scottkeef.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 1, 2010 15:34
they insisted it be changed to Rev Davis.....Rev Robert Wilkins
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
scottkeef
()
Date: July 1, 2010 16:50
Thanks.Rockman !! Another short circuit between the ears on my part!!
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
Jah Paul
()
Date: July 1, 2010 19:35
Quote
scottkeef
Original album in 1975 did not give credit to Ritchie Valens. His estate sued, a settlement was reached, and then his mother's name was added to the writers credits.
Nice copy and paste from "Songfacts.com"...including the punctuation errors!
Noticed on there it mentions Valens' "Ooh My Head" borrowed heavily from Little Richard's "Ooh My Soul" -- so definitely a lot of "borrowing" going on all around.
Like John Lennon once said about the subject of "recycling" old chords and such..."It's all a rip-off!"
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
scottkeef
()
Date: July 1, 2010 20:05
So is that not allowed?? LOL -Next time I guess I'll go through my vinyl... Yeah,borrowing isnt surprising but SOME of Zeps stuff were just direct copying. Of course they made an entire song out of Little Richard's "Keep A Knockin' for R n R!!
I remember when Lennon said about Harrison ripping off He's So Fine for My Sweet Lord. He said George knew better than that!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-01 20:06 by scottkeef.
I remember when Lennon said about Harrison ripping off He's So Fine for My Sweet Lord. He said George knew better than that!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-01 20:06 by scottkeef.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: July 1, 2010 20:33
Lennon nicked from Chuck Berry for Come Together.
The stones nicked the last time vocal refrain(Brian made up the lead guitar motif!) and also Jimmy Page's guitar solo note for note for Heart of Stone.
This kinda borrowing is endless.
The stones nicked the last time vocal refrain(Brian made up the lead guitar motif!) and also Jimmy Page's guitar solo note for note for Heart of Stone.
This kinda borrowing is endless.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
mitchflorida
()
Date: July 1, 2010 20:36
If there isn't a lawsuit or if it isn't settle out of court, I don't really consider it really theft. It might be borrowing, but it isn't theft unless a jury agrees, or the group tells the lawyers to settle the case.
You can adapt Oh Susannah all you want, steal it note for note, if it is considered in the public domain, as was The Last Time.
You can adapt Oh Susannah all you want, steal it note for note, if it is considered in the public domain, as was The Last Time.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: July 1, 2010 20:50
Quote
mitchflorida
If there isn't a lawsuit or if it isn't settle out of court, I don't really consider it really theft. It might be borrowing, but it isn't theft unless a jury agrees, or the group tells the lawyers to settle the case.
You can adapt Oh Susannah all you want, steal it note for note, if it is considered in the public domain, as was The Last Time.
For public domain stuff if it's a note for note steal...
Traditional: Arranged by (insert band name)
... is often used.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: July 1, 2010 22:43
Quote
His Majesty
Lennon nicked from Chuck Berry for Come Together.
The stones nicked the last time vocal refrain(Brian made up the lead guitar motif!) and also Jimmy Page's guitar solo note for note for Heart of Stone.
This kinda borrowing is endless.
a guitar solo can not be copyrighted. "beat it" does not list EVH as a songwriter.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: July 2, 2010 01:39
Quote
scottkeef
Zep had to settle outta court over Whole Lotta Love cause they lifted it from Willie Dixon or was it Muddy?? I dont remember. They also settled over The Lemon Song and How Many More Times. Anyone who has listened to Boogie With Stu can tell its a straight rip off of Riche Valen's Ooh My Soul. And In My Time Of Dying had been around for decades. SO its nothing new. GREAT musicians but as Keith would say "They stole it well"!!
Zep's "Whole Lotta Love" and Muddy's "You Need Love" are the same song. Even some of the lyrics are the same. I was watching a Jeff Beck concert on PBS recently. It was the one where Clapton joins him for the encore. Interestingly, the two Yardbirds guitarists played "You Need Love", acknowledging the third Yardbirds guitarist, and exposing him at the same time.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-02 02:16 by tatters.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 2, 2010 02:25
Of course they made an entire song out of Little Richard's "Keep A Knockin' for R n R!!
Little Richard Knockin' borrows heavily from Kokomo Arnold's -- Busy Bootin
from 1934 and Kokomo in turn borrows from James "Boodle It" Wiggins a Chicago
piano player who in 1928 cut Keep A-knocking An You Can't Get In ....
But Louis Jordan also recorded a version of Keep A Knockin in the late
40's and could possibly be where Little Richard first heard the number....
ROCKMAN
Little Richard Knockin' borrows heavily from Kokomo Arnold's -- Busy Bootin
from 1934 and Kokomo in turn borrows from James "Boodle It" Wiggins a Chicago
piano player who in 1928 cut Keep A-knocking An You Can't Get In ....
But Louis Jordan also recorded a version of Keep A Knockin in the late
40's and could possibly be where Little Richard first heard the number....
ROCKMAN
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
scottkeef
()
Date: July 2, 2010 03:33
Rockman, how far does this go back? This 1951 is the oldest version on youtube I think..
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: July 2, 2010 03:41
well i think it says bradshaw wrote it
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
bustedtrousers
()
Date: July 2, 2010 08:50
Quote
Rockman
Of course they made an entire song out of Little Richard's "Keep A Knockin' for R n R!!
Little Richard Knockin' borrows heavily from Kokomo Arnold's -- Busy Bootin
from 1934 and Kokomo in turn borrows from James "Boodle It" Wiggins a Chicago
piano player who in 1928 cut Keep A-knocking An You Can't Get In ....
But Louis Jordan also recorded a version of Keep A Knockin in the late
40's and could possibly be where Little Richard first heard the number....
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: July 2, 2010 09:01
Quote
bolexman
Zeppelin opened for Spirit in 1968, apparently. And around that time Spirit had a song called "Taurus" that sounds almost exactlty like the acoustic part of Stairway. Check it out-
Fuc*ing hell! The clip and some of the others in this thread, are really opening my eyes. Yikes, why didn't these guys sue?
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 2, 2010 09:40
Rockman, how far does this go back?
YEAH YEAH scotto ..........Tiny Bradshaw
ROCKMAN
YEAH YEAH scotto ..........Tiny Bradshaw
ROCKMAN
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
The GR
()
Date: July 2, 2010 12:51
Stones Little By Little is the same tune as Shame, Shame, Shame by Jimmy Reed.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
The GR
()
Date: July 2, 2010 13:02
Only ABKCO sued the Verve over Bittersweet, NOT the Stones. The Stones put the song on the PA after the BtB shows so the Verve would get some royalties back becasue they were not happy abput it..
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
mitchflorida
()
Date: July 2, 2010 14:41
"The Stones put the song on the PA after the BtB shows"
What does this mean?
What does this mean?
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
Child Of Clay
()
Date: July 2, 2010 14:52
and no one's even mentioned Noel Gallagher yet! Or Bob Dylan, who's dipped into public domain every now and then, Modern Times album being a prime example. After reading "Revolution In The Head" I'm aware of the Beatles often being "influenced" by other hitmakers. And Marc Bolan ripped off Howlin Wolf for "Jeepster", Kurt Cobain stole a hook from the Ramones to "Heart-Shaped Box", Johnny Thunders stole from the Yardbirds... It's just unfair to single out Led Zeppelin when it comes to stealing. Of course they were arrogant about it, and perhaps they deserve the flak, I don't know.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 2, 2010 14:55
Or Bob Dylan, who's dipped into public domain every now and then, Modern Times album being a prime example.
Dylan's been doin' it since day one .....
ROCKMAN
Dylan's been doin' it since day one .....
ROCKMAN
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: July 2, 2010 15:08
Quote
Child Of Clay
and no one's even mentioned Noel Gallagher yet!
The thing about Noel Gallagher is that he readily admits to nicking the odd riff. I have never read or viewed a Jimmy Page interview where he fully acknowledges the songwriters he borrows ideas from.
Re: OT: A ‘Dazed And Confused’ Lawsuit
Posted by:
mitchflorida
()
Date: July 2, 2010 15:08
There is nothing wrong with going into the Public Domain. The Public Domain is by definition open to the public.
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