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bustedtrousers
Yes, that's my understanding too, that Keith was upset with her usage in general, which I tried to convey by saying he flipped out over "her use of such hard drugs". Which is ironic, considering he became everything he was concerned she might become, if not worse.
This is the odd thing about Keith's heroin/harder drug use. He really did make a left turn down that road, and didn't seem to be the type who always had an interest in it. If you could go back in time and know him, in say, 1966 to early 67, I don't think he was a reckless individual. I don't think you would view him as one of the ones you'd look at and think, "Well, it's only a matter of time before THAT ONE gets into something he can't handle."
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71Tele
OK, I'll pick it up. I just don't know if I can get through the whole Altamont thing again, though. Very depressing. But it sounds like a book I have to read. Thanks.
As far as I can remember, I didn't find the Altamont part very long or dwelling. By the time you get to that part, which is far into the book, it'll be over pretty quick. It's really well written; I found Tony Sanchez' account of Altamont much more overblown and "gory".
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bustedtrousers
Oh my God, Yes! It's Booth's book, and it is extremely worth the read. If you haven't read it, you need to buy it and do so NOW!!!! It's arguably the best one ever written about the Stones. It's about two things, Brian Jones, and the 69 tour, which he lays it out in a very compelling and interesting way, especially the tour. He's there for everything, their stay in L.A. right before the tour, opening night, the Muscle Shoals sessions for Brown Sugar and Wild Horses (Jim Dickinson, who played piano on Horses, was Booth's buddy, and Stanley's the reason why he was at Muscle Shoals to begin with), and of course, Altamont. His first hand account of that show is harrowing, you really get the sense of how horrific it was.
He switches between the 69 tour and telling Brian's story, they both get their own chapters, in a back and forth way. I personally found the chapters on Brian a bit boring at times, but that's mainly because the ones about the tour are so damn interesting. It's so cool though the way he splits the two stories, and Brian's is bittersweet, especially his parents. Very sad the way they were left to pick up the pieces of their son's life and carry on. From Stanley's descriptions, they sound like very good, kind, and sweet people.
Tele, after all I've read on here from you, I can't believe you've never read this book. I'm telling you, if your as big a fan as your posts have led me to believe, you have to do so ASAP.
OK, I'll pick it up. I just don't know if I can get through the whole Altamont thing again, though. Very depressing. But it sounds like a book I have to read. Thanks.
Tele, I'd concur it's a definitely not a book to miss. Stanley Booth had access in a way few did, and the Stones' trust (tho if you read betwen the lines you have to wonder how much respect they actually had for him--if you lok at the backstage MSG '69 clips you'll see him sort of anxiously smiling and hovering, especially around Mick, and to me that's the vibe of his whole relationship with that, which, to me personally, feels ever-so-slightly unfortunate, and uncomfortable to read). His tone is enthusiastic and his narrative is compelling for sure! And it contains really good and useful info. I personally found the jumping back and forth time/place an awkward way for Stanley Booth to combine 2 very separate books into one. Also, to my mind there's too much of Stanley Booth himself in it, quotes from gurus and musicians flanking the chapters, plus a lot of stuff about his personal journey and life circumstances, which seem almost poseur-ish, like he's trying to make his life seem cooler than it actually was, which sounds (to me) actually kind of sad and muddled.
It's something like the Goddard film, to me: it would reach full awesomeness potential if someone were to cut out the '69 Stones' parts and splice them back together in a running narrative. And do the same to the early years/Brian parts. And to set aside the Stanley Booth personal journey part. I say this with great affection and appreciation for the author (who I don't know) and am massively grateful he wrote the book. But, again maybe just for me, the reading experience was somewhat compromised by starting chapters, having them shift time and place (I would bookmark it and then skip ahead to get to the next place where the narrative actually left off), and then drift into Stanley Booth recollections about his girlfriend and girlfriend wannabes.
- swiss
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71Tele
Great post. Swiss. I am curious as to what you know about the withdrawal treatments in Pa. and Toronto. There seems to be a shroud of mystery around this.
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bustedtrousers
I agree completely Swiss, in principle. Everything you say is pretty much true, but the difference for me is, ultimately, none of these things bothered me.
I have to admit though, at first the jumping around between Brian's story and the 69 tour really bugged me at first, and to be honest, I could of done without Brian's part. But after finishing the book, I was so moved by it, I ended up really appreciating the approach Stanley took, and the story he told of Brian. I felt it was a good juxtaposition which, in the long run, worked for me. However, I can completely understand your side of it Swiss, because I felt that too.
Except for the parts about Stanley himself. I really enjoyed the personal stories he told, and I felt he did a good job of fitting them into the narrative. Especially the ones about Thanksgiving at Jerry Wexler's, and about going to his buddy in Memphis' apartment after a drug bust, and finding that the cops had purposely left the gas on so it would fill the place up (was that Jim Dickinson too, I believe it was). I felt the book was as much about Stanley's journey as it was the Stones, and I was ok with that. Again though, I can understand someone else thinking, "Come on already, get back to the Stones. Dammit!".
As far as Mick's attitude toward Stanley goes, I think that's just Mick. He seems to be that way in every book I've read. Warm and friendly one minute, cold and aloof the next. I got the same impression from Tony Sanchez's and Bill German's books too. And Robert Greenfield's Season in Hell. I think Mick grabs onto whoever he thinks he can relate to at any given moment, bonds with them over the issue at hand, and then instead of letting that turn into a true connection and friendship, just moves on, with little thought to the other person(s) involved. Mick to me is in constant motion, and doesn't seem to need and/or want to connect with people intimately the way most of us do. He's never seemed to have the need for a constant buddy, like Keith has had with Ronnie and others.
Your right though Swiss, you could cut out the other stuff and make it just about the 69 tour, and it would be a great book, and I can see why you'd prefer that. But I like it as it is.
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bustedtrousers
I agree completely Swiss, in principle. Everything you say is pretty much true, but the difference for me is, ultimately, none of these things bothered me.
I have to admit though, at first the jumping around between Brian's story and the 69 tour really bugged me at first, and to be honest, I could of done without Brian's part. But after finishing the book, I was so moved by it, I ended up really appreciating the approach Stanley took, and the story he told of Brian. I felt it was a good juxtaposition which, in the long run, worked for me. However, I can completely understand your side of it Swiss, because I felt that too.
Except for the parts about Stanley himself. I really enjoyed the personal stories he told, and I felt he did a good job of fitting them into the narrative. Especially the ones about Thanksgiving at Jerry Wexler's, and about going to his buddy in Memphis' apartment after a drug bust, and finding that the cops had purposely left the gas on so it would fill the place up (was that Jim Dickinson too, I believe it was). I felt the book was as much about Stanley's journey as it was the Stones, and I was ok with that. Again though, I can understand someone else thinking, "Come on already, get back to the Stones. Dammit!".
As far as Mick's attitude toward Stanley goes, I think that's just Mick. He seems to be that way in every book I've read. Warm and friendly one minute, cold and aloof the next. I got the same impression from Tony Sanchez's and Bill German's books too. And Robert Greenfield's Season in Hell. I think Mick grabs onto whoever he thinks he can relate to at any given moment, bonds with them over the issue at hand, and then instead of letting that turn into a true connection and friendship, just moves on, with little thought to the other person(s) involved. Mick to me is in constant motion, and doesn't seem to need and/or want to connect with people intimately the way most of us do. He's never seemed to have the need for a constant buddy, like Keith has had with Ronnie and others.
Your right though Swiss, you could cut out the other stuff and make it just about the 69 tour, and it would be a great book, and I can see why you'd prefer that. But I like it as it is.
Wow! what a great writer you are! I've never read a "take" on Mick like that, and it's absolutely spot-on (in hindsight). Now I think "So true - it was always right there but that characterization never crystalized like that for me!"
In my one brief encounter with Mick (at age 16, at a fairly intimate party of maybe 200-300 people) he was definitely displaying "I have utterly no use for you and want you to know it" mode (which my friend and I thought was hilarious because it was so over the top, and we'd already seen him sulking and skulking around by himself most of the party, which was an extremely merry Hamptons party of the late '70s, so no need to be McGlumster--even to 16 years olds we thought it was sort of babyish and operatic of him).
I was thinking today after ii wrote that Keith is very emotionally private -- to the point of being emotionally buttoned-down -- that Mick is too. Isn't that ironic?! That these two icons of unleashed hedonism, whim-driven passion, and ID run amok, are also emotionally pretty laced-up?
I think Mick's one buddy has been Keith. The one male peer he's ever needed or relied on.
So many betrayals between them. Betrayals of choices they have made as individuals that have affected their relationship as friends and co-creators. Probably unarticulated disappointments and lack of resolution of conflicts. For years. And years. And years. And with little means of connecting and healing? Mick says "I don't need you. I can make as good music alone - and if we're collaboraing that's fine but it's just music" and Keith says "Naw--we need each other, to bring out the best and worst of each other in every way - we're donnected in our veins." Keith can be emotional and connect to Mick through music. He's said collaborating with him is like making love and maybe better, like communicating psychically. And Mick can also connect to Keith musically, especially when playing his harp. But I think Keith is totally straight and not afraid to have whatever weird closeness with Mick. But I think Mick can't deal with whatever their connection is - freaks him out, has been disappointed by Keith too many times. So now keeps him at arm's distance.
Anyway - back to you. Your appreciating Stanley Booth's journey is lovely and feels gracious to me. And you are right; it's more about my saying "Get back to the Stones, dammit!" than "Hang that Stanley Booth and his story!"
- swiss
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71Tele
Swiss, I knew about the Meg Patterson "black box" treatment, but I always thought it was some sort of quackery. A metal box with wires cures you of addiction? Really? Isn't it true this "cure" didn't take, and he had to kick again? I had always assumed he was clean on the '78 tour (he did look and play much better), but now I'm not so sure. I think there was also some sort of relapse on the Voodoo Lounge tour.
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71Tele
Without getting to teary-eyed, I think the posts from Swiss and bustedtrousers on this subject are among the most insightful and thoughtful I have seen here.
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CousinC
Everytime when threads like this one appear I'm seduced to post something but ultimately most times wont.
I think I told my story one time very early on on a board (in the 90's?).
I had done my school and began to study but at the same time I was playing music myself and was (trough a friend) more and more working for a very big German/European promoter.
So I saw many bands that came to Germany in the early/mid 70's.
I've been a huge Stonesfan since my childhood in the 60's. First had seen them in 70 and when they came in 73 I was around on some dates like in Essen where I had to help with the Mobile. We even had to break a hole in the hall for all those cables, etc.
I was more and more doing music and music jobs and had quit university. Through all those contacts I had began to dabble with drugs myself.
In 76 I was again on even more dates. Keith' helper asked me for drugs cause Keith didn't want to go on until something came around. I was absolutely no dealer but a user now. But - I couldn't resist (like many before and after me) the chance to really meet Keith. Remember driving around with that helper in Keith silver Ferrari. After many hassles I succeeded. Later I had 3 or 4 encounters with Keith (and Anita and Marlon who were around on some dates).
At the moment I don't want to go more into this but from than on I got very much into coke and smack. I knew some other Stonesfans too and they all got on drugs.
We tended to give the Stones some blame. I for shure did this for some time.
This was long before Internet and all Stones people I KNEW where doing drugs mostly animated by the Stones and their songs. Only many years later when through the net I heard of other great fans I learned that many had seen it other ways.
well, I was on drugs for many years. I also did this Patterson method (didn't work for me as it didn't work for Keith and Anita). She's telling a lot of bull§$% in her book.
Same with Keith these days. I have to laugh when I read his remaks of having no problem to get off the stuff, etc.etc. I know another Keith!
To make it short after many years I'm off but I have to pay the price. But that is okay with me. I had a lot of fun too.
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bustedtrousers
I hope he tells us more too, I'm interested to know more about his experience with the black box, if he is of a mind to speak about it. Since I first read about Townshend's experience with it, I've always been fascinated by it.
Another reason is because my Mom once had these tiny metal buttons placed on a, supposed, pressure point(s) on both ears, in order to quit smoking. Whenever she got the urge, she was supposed to tap them with like a pencil or something. They didn't work.
About ten years after that she tried hypnotism, which worked! But only temporarily. She was supposed to go back if she had trouble again, but she never went.
Finally, about ten years after that (which was about 4 years ago, I think), she went to another guy who took some kind of laser and zapped her (painlessly) around her thumbnail, and I think somewhere else too, but I forget where. Amazingly, this time it worked! So far she hasn't smoked a cigarette since, although she has struggled with it at times. But nothing else worked like this last treatment. She's in her 70's and has smoked since she was like 12 or some shit. The longest she ever quit before was maybe a month. I thought she would never quit, but it's been like 4 1/2 years now.
It's these experiences that make me think that Meg Patterson's black box must work along somewhat similar lines, and probably is a miracle for some, and a complete bust for others. So while I don't doubt that it didn't help CousinC, and even Keith (although I thought it did, at least for the short term), I also firmly believe it helped Clapton and Townshend, and I'd like to know more about it.
I wonder if Meg herself treated CousinC. For years I thought she was some kind of a saint, and wondered why her treatment couldn't become standard for heroin addiction. Until I read Clapton's book. Although the box worked for him, his story gave me mixed feelings about her.
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swiss
I think you or someone else nailed it earlier on that the cure seems to treat the pain and anxiety suffered during withdrawal, but it's just to get through the extremis, and then other kinds of "work" has to be done, including the addict doing hard work to get to the root of what he @#$%& they're doing and why they're avoiding reality and feelings so doggedly (I speak firsthand, having kicked booze 18 yrs ago, various substances 10 yrs ago, and nicotine 5 yrs ago). That's the thing about addicts, they think something outside themselves is the answer -- and nothing is. It can help but addiction is an internal fight too -- self vs self. And if Keith or your Mom or Clapton or Ronnie Wood isn't ready to stop and hasn't faced themselves and whatever conditions got them started in the first place nothing can stop them from going back.
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bustedtrousers
As far as Mick's attitude toward Stanley goes, I think that's just Mick. He seems to be that way in every book I've read. Warm and friendly one minute, cold and aloof the next. I got the same impression from Tony Sanchez's and Bill German's books too. And Robert Greenfield's Season in Hell. I think Mick grabs onto whoever he thinks he can relate to at any given moment, bonds with them over the issue at hand, and then instead of letting that turn into a true connection and friendship, just moves on, with little thought to the other person(s) involved. Mick to me is in constant motion, and doesn't seem to need and/or want to connect with people intimately the way most of us do. He's never seemed to have the need for a constant buddy, like Keith has had with Ronnie and others.
In my one brief encounter with Mick (at age 16, at a fairly intimate party of maybe 200-300 people) he was definitely displaying "I have utterly no use for you and want you to know it" mode (which my friend and I thought was hilarious because it was so over the top, and we'd already seen him sulking and skulking around by himself most of the party, which was an extremely merry Hamptons party of the late '70s, so no need to be McGlumster--even to 16 years olds we thought it was sort of babyish and operatic of him).
I think Mick's one buddy has been Keith. The one male peer he's ever needed or relied on.
But I think Keith is totally straight and not afraid to have whatever weird closeness with Mick. But I think Mick can't deal with whatever their connection is - freaks him out, has been disappointed by Keith too many times. So now keeps him at arm's distance.
- swiss