This may have been posted already, but FYI the current playboy has a feature article on Brian, focusing on the "murder" investigation.

Any new info?

Shott will let us know after he's unstuck the pages....

Apparently there was a man in a lavish dressing-gown and a smart pair of PJ's with a pipe in hand seen leaving the scene where Brian was later found dead. The investigation is looking at Heff.

drewmaster posted a link to the article in this thread: [www.iorr.org]

I guess i gotta go buy it.....We all SHOULD know that he was murderd...

Accidental death yes, murdered no. Probably involuntary manslaughter. The people with him most likely paniced.

Phew, thought they'd uncoven a spread he'd done.

If I'd be flipping through the pages of a Playboy magazine I'd rather
check out them scantily clad bunnies than this so called investigation...

[www.iorr.org]

Quote
Shott
This may have been posted already, but FYI the current playboy has a feature article on Brian, focusing on the "murder" investigation.

Well, as the link here (if you don't have intent to buy your own copy of PLAYBOY):

[members7.boardhost.com]

shows the description above is a bit misleading. Yes, there is a small side text or column of the (stupid) murder investigation, but the real article is based nothing but remembering the dramatic life of Brian Jones as the original orole model of "sex, drugs and rock and roll", written by Robert Greenfield - well-known for legendary Keith Richards Rolling Stone 1971 interview at Nellcote, STP tour and EXILE books.

Some of the facts do not fit with the reality - as usually - but its quite okay over-all view of Brian Jones in few pages.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-23 10:05 by Doxa.

Quote
Gazza
Shott will let us know after he's unstuck the pages....

Its ok Gaz, he laminated them first!

Was Michael Barrymore at the party?

Shott wrote:

"This may have been posted already,"

-Not difficult to check out, if so...

Has anyone read this?

I have bought a copy and there is ALOT of info that I did not know, not only in regards to the drowing/murder but about Brain in General.

It is a good article. Some of which I question and want to double check.

If anyone has read this would you like to discuss this article?

Some point's for discussion....

Beggars Banquet; it states brian plays slide guitar, mellotron, sitar, tamoura, and harmonica... I know he play's on Street Fighting Man, Dear Doctor, No Expectations. But how much of his influence is actually ON Beggar's, which leads into my 2nd question. But what about the REST of B.B. where is he and what is he playing?

Since the material for Beggar's & L.I.B. were bascially recorded concurrently and there is little presence of Brian on L.I.B. Could there be matierial he was not credited for? ( case in point for this being possible Mick T.)

I mean if it were not for Brian there would be no Ruby Tuesday! He came up w/ the beautiful melody for the basis of the song that MJ/KR wrote around. I do think he deserves a writing credit for that. Among many other's.

Perhap's I have overlooked Brain Jones in the sense that it's ALWAYS been about MJ/KR and their songwriting.

I guess I never really relized how IMPORTANT he was to the forming and getting the Stones going. The look, the style, the brashness of it all.

In the article it also states the he and Anita were the archtype of rock and roll excess love story ... i.e. Sid and Nancy

Was Brain really framed during the bust they found coke and hash in the blue ball of yarn? I mean it seems he really did not want to get busted again or go down that road, especially since his defense for the last bust said he was in a fragile condition and jail time would damage him and he might even try harm upon himself.

And what of the fight between him and Mick where he lunged at Mick w/ a knife and ends up jumping in Keith's moat.

The Keith, Brian Anita triangle. If you think about it, what a tension filled way for a band to operate under..

And Also the article said that Brain was Mick's backup singer... But a power shift within the band moved Keith to singing backup vocs. What vocal's did brian sing on.. casue as early as T.I.O.M.S. I'm hearing Keith singing backup

I suppose that with this post not only do I want to discuss the above mentioned but really open up a Brian Jones post that could fill in alot of thier histroy that may have been overshawdoed by Mick & Keith

I hope this lead's to some great thought provoking posts.

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-23 03:52 by Marhsall.

Also interesting fact.. I did not know his License Plate was D.D. 666 (Devil's Disciple)

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-23 03:43 by Marhsall.

i don't honestly feel that the initial impact of the stones on america were without considerable charisma other-worldly elegance of brian, as well as bright rhythm and rockin' live vibe...there he is all dulcimers, percussion, kalimba sitar vibes slide...plus he was so glowing beautiful ... he weren't no side man imo.
rolling stones forever...

[www.iorr.org]

Where does everyone stand on Brian's songwriting credits?

I would have to say he should get a co-writing credit for...

Ruby Tuesday

Lady Jane

2,000 Light yrs. from Home..as I understand it wasn't even goingto be included until brain added mellotron and it came together after that.

I mean where does the line end/begin for songwriting credit?

I mean it is simple for lyric's... Either Mick wrote them or Keith wrote them.. or they wrote them together...

But if the MJ/KR songwriting team come up w/ a song and it goes no where till a certain part or arrangment is added, does that not indeed include a credit?

I guess we could extend this to M.T. as well for Sway & M.M. and V.B.

Brain may not have wrote the lyrics or came up with a complete arrangment but with out his part's would these songs been released or ended up unreleased?

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

Quote
Marhsall


Beggars Banquet; it states brian plays slide guitar, mellotron, sitar, tamoura, and harmonica... I know he play's on Street Fighting Man, Dear Doctor, No Expectations. But how much of his influence is actually ON Beggar's, which leads into my 2nd question. But what about the REST of B.B. where is he and what is he playing?

Since the material for Beggar's & L.I.B. were bascially recorded concurrently and there is little presence of Brian on L.I.B. Could there be matierial he was not credited for? ( case in point for this being possible Mick T.)

Brian Jones probable 1968 recording session contributions:

* Sympathy for the Devil - Acoustic guitar, vocals(the acoustic was mixed out/not recorded, vocals maybe replaced in LA).

* No Expectations - slide guitar

* Dear Doctor - Harmonica

* Parachute Woman - Harmonica

* Jigsaw Puzzle - Mellotron(flute setting)

* Street Fighting Man - Sitar & Tamboura

* Prodigal Son - Harmonica(mixed out, but still kind of audible more so on the alternative mix which is on some bootlegs).

* Stray Cat Blues - Mellotron(Mixed Brass setting)

Add to this:

* Jumpin' Jack Flash - guitar

* Child of the Moon - Soprano Saxophone

* Still A Fool/Two Trains Running - slide guitar

...

Beggars Banquet was done and dusted by July/August 1968. The first session for what became LIB was in November 1968. None of the recordings on LIB date from BB sessions. It seems that what ever problems were brewing during 1967/68 reached a more intense level by 1969. Also take in to consideration that LIB wasn't completed until just before the 1969 USA tour.

Perhaps he played on more LIB sessions/tracks than he's credited for on the official album, but those contributions simply weren't used/kept.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-23 04:38 by His Majesty.

His Majesty.. Great Post thank you!!

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

Quote
Marhsall

I mean where does the line end/begin for songwriting credit?

In the strictest sense, the vocal melody and lyrics are the song. The rest falls under arranging. But, the main melody could have been influenced or inspired by something that one of the others came up with first. Then it comes down to the relationship between the band members and any deals which may or may not have been struck etc etc.

Lots of grey areas which is why there's lots of bitching in bands about song writing credits.

IMO, something like The Last Time in which Brian played and created a key riff/motif should have at the very least have been a Nanker/Phelge group credit.

Anyway, the credits aren't all that reliable regarding who truly wrote the song in question. Business deals, group - manager relationships, politics etc etc also come in to play.

Let it Bleed

Brain plays Conga's on Midnight Rambler
Autoharp on You Got the Silver

Oddly enough I don't see him credited on Y.C.A.G.W.Y.W. BUT he play's it live
at the Circus

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

Great Post Majesty.. nice to discuss this post w/ you. Any boot's you'd like to trade? Hit me up sometime through my e-mail.

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

Quote
Marhsall
Let it Bleed

Brain plays Conga's on Midnight Rambler
Autoharp on You Got the Silver

Oddly enough I don't see him credited on Y.C.A.G.W.Y.W. BUT he play's it live
at the Circus

The midnight Rambler percussion credit is a bit vague. Noone outside of the band really seems to know what percussion instrument Brian actually played.

Al Kooper has said that Brian lay on the floor reading a magazine article on botany during the first session for YCAGWYW. Quite ironic as it seems Brian was the one who actually got Al to come to the stones session in the first place.

His part on that song during the R&R Circus is pretty unnecessary really and isn't really all that audible.

What of the Popeye solo during the Loud screaming of the girls at concerts... I've read differening opinions regarding this.... first Keith was so pissed at Brian for doing this... Then Keith making light of it and joking about it...

Regardless of where the discussion goes with this Brian post I think the above posts has a lot of room for discussion.. and in the end Brian was a HUGE contributing factor in the Stones!

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

>> The midnight Rambler percussion credit is a bit vague.
No one outside of the band really seems to know what percussion instrument Brian actually played. <<

i believe it's Mathijs who's noted a couple of times that it's a timpani or something a lot like that
accompanying the assault after each line in the "well you heard about the Boston ..." section

>> Anyway, the credits aren't all that reliable regarding who truly wrote the song in question <<

and they're even less reliable about who was paid what, or why - that point is often overlooked
when fans speculate about who they think "deserves" what.

meanwhile, Brian talked some about wanting to write songs but lacking the confidence to present stuff to the group.
i've never heard/read about him complaining that the band used his ideas without crediting him for it.
maybe they did, but is there evidence that Brian felt he deserved credit he wasn't getting?
(concepts about these things have changed a lot in the last 40 years,
and it really doesn't make sense to try to apply current thinking about them retrospectively.)

Quote
with sssoul
i believe it's Mathijs who's noted a couple of times that it's a timpani or something a lot like that
accompanying the assault after each line in the "well you heard about the Boston ..." section

And that's exactly the part where the studio version outshines the live version from Ya-Ya's!

Quote
with sssoul

i believe it's Mathijs who's noted a couple of times that it's a timpani or something a lot like that
accompanying the assault after each line in the "well you heard about the Boston ..." section

BANG!!!!

Yeah, that explanation works best for me.

Quote
with sssoul

>> Anyway, the credits aren't all that reliable regarding who truly wrote the song in question <<

and they're even less reliable about who was paid what, or why - that point is often overlooked
when fans speculate about who they think "deserves" what.

meanwhile, Brian talked some about wanting to write songs but lacking the confidence to present stuff to the group.
i've never heard/read about him complaining that the band used his ideas without crediting him for it.
maybe they did, but is there evidence that Brian felt he deserved credit he wasn't getting?
(concepts about these things have changed a lot in the last 40 years,
and it really doesn't make sense to try to apply current thinking about them retrospectively.)

The closest thing I've come across is something he said to Volker Schlöndorff. I'd need to find it again though. Don't think he said he'd beenn ripped off, but said something about a lot of stones stuff being his or some such.

Here's the Volker Schlöndorff quote taken from Record Collector - January 2008

Asked about Jones' apparent inability to write songs as opposed to incidental music Schlöndorff says:

''He would not admit it! Quite the opposite. He would say, 'but I know all that' He would insist that a lot of the stones songs, actually there was large part of his in there.''