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tonterapi
It's there, according to His Majesty (and I trust his ears), but it's very low in the mix and most of what he play is in the same register as the bass wich blur him out. If you have the 25x5 documentary Brian is more audible on the YCAGWYW take from RnR-Circus than on the official release.quote]

I did notice that (I wore out a copy of 25x5 back in the day!) there's another guitar in that clip (when Keith's saying - some things better better with age). It's bright/high sounding, almost like an overdubbed acoustic. Is that Brian??

[thepowergoats.com]

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neptune
Pretty sad that this would purposely be done. Silencing Brian during his last video appearance with the Stones is as low as it gets.

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marvpeck
How many folks have been present when a rock band is creating a song? They don't come in as complete songs. Just some chords and some lyrics. Brian role as a "colorist" is what takes the Stones songs over the top. Most rock songs are the same. What makes them different is that "color" Brian could hear what the song needed and he could add it.

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marvpeck
"Let's be the devil's advocate here: what a burden was Brian to the second-most creative duo in the world? Here you are, 26 years old and on top of the world musically, ready to start a four year streak of best-ever Rock albums with a band that is going to be called "the Greatest band in the World" in one year time -and there's this washed up alcoholic slumped in the corned on a one-too-many acid trip, weeping over the loss of his girl to that ever so succesful guitarist and writer of the band you started...

I wouldn't hasitate a bit to throw him out."

Mathijs

So, would you have tossed Keith out a few years later?

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Mathijs
I continue to read all these phrases with "how bad Jagger/Richards treated Jones", in some form or another.

Let's be the devil's advocate here: what a burden was Brian to the second-most creative duo in the world? Here you are, 26 years old and on top of the world musically, ready to start a four year streak of best-ever Rock albums with a band that is going to be called "the Greatest band in the World" in one year time -and there's this washed up alcoholic slumped in the corned on a one-too-many acid trip, weeping over the loss of his girl to that ever so succesful guitarist and writer of the band you started...

I wouldn't hasitate a bit to throw him out.

Mathijs

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jamesfdouglas


I did notice that (I wore out a copy of 25x5 back in the day!) there's another guitar in that clip (when Keith's saying - some things better better with age). It's bright/high sounding, almost like an overdubbed acoustic. Is that Brian??

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tonterapi

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neptune
Pretty sad that this would purposely be done. Silencing Brian during his last video appearance with the Stones is as low as it gets.

Maybe it had to be done to give the story about "too high and too weak to play" some credit.

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marvpeck
How many folks have been present when a rock band is creating a song? They don't come in as complete songs. Just some chords and some lyrics. Brian role as a "colorist" is what takes the Stones songs over the top. Most rock songs are the same. What makes them different is that "color" Brian could hear what the song needed and he could add it.

The albums do most of the time say "produced by the Rolling Stones". So Brian gets credit for his instrumental skills in that. But you do point out something important about how bands work and how song writing works generally in bands. Discussing credits is interesting even though we lack info about what happend in the studio when the Stones recorded in the 60's. It's both difficult and sensetive to question the holy Jagger/Richards credit because of that. Personally I believe that there are cracks in that wall...

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His Majesty
Brian and the others all get credit for their instrumental contributions via 'arranged by The Rolling Stones', production is a whole other thing.

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Amsterdamned
<Charlie and Bill didn't play a hero's role concerning Brian. Their attitude was very consequently accepting the leading role of the Glimmers and remaining passive as much as possible. They were 'sidemen', though not without responsibility. Brian surely must have been a difficult person, regarding his relationships with women, his many children at such a young age, his violent behaviour etc. But none of those things is an excuse to treat someone, a fellow bandmember notably, that badly as Jagger and Richards treated Brian.
It may not be a secret that I like the Taylor-era most (followed by the Brian-era), but I'm glad that Taylor took the consequences and resigned by surprise, leaving the Glimmers with a musical loss they never could restore. Revenge for Brian as yet.><Kleermaker>

Not so easy to judge about the relationship between Brian and the GT's..

I don't think Taylor left out of revenge for Brian,it's not in his nature..
But apart from that I whole-hearted agree on your entire post.

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His Majesty
Brian and the others all get credit for their instrumental contributions via 'arranged by The Rolling Stones', production is a whole other thing.

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pdw
What about Sittin on a Fence on the Flowers album (US release)and one of my favorite early albums...not a bad song on it!! This song has fantastic acoustic guitar interplay with 2 acoustic guitars clearly audible. I always wanted to believe that it was Brian and Keith. What do you think? Does anyone really know?

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tonterapi
If you have the 25x5 documentary Brian is more audible on the YCAGWYW take from RnR-Circus than on the official release ...
I guess somebody (no names mentioned) took the opportunity in 1996 to lower his guitar in an attempt to diminish his role in the band even further

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DiamondDog7
Here's Bill's version about Brian ;

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with sssoul
oops sorry - i see HM has already addressed this, but maybe it's worth emphasizing:
if you mean the acoustic: that was an overdub by Keith, not an "erased Brian" -
nothing to judge anyone harshly over

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kleermaker

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Amsterdamned
<Charlie and Bill didn't play a hero's role concerning Brian. Their attitude was very consequently accepting the leading role of the Glimmers and remaining passive as much as possible. They were 'sidemen', though not without responsibility. Brian surely must have been a difficult person, regarding his relationships with women, his many children at such a young age, his violent behaviour etc. But none of those things is an excuse to treat someone, a fellow bandmember notably, that badly as Jagger and Richards treated Brian.
It may not be a secret that I like the Taylor-era most (followed by the Brian-era), but I'm glad that Taylor took the consequences and resigned by surprise, leaving the Glimmers with a musical loss they never could restore. Revenge for Brian as yet.><Kleermaker>

Not so easy to judge about the relationship between Brian and the GT's..

I don't think Taylor left out of revenge for Brian,it's not in his nature..
But apart from that I whole-hearted agree on your entire post.

Of course Taylor didn't do that, Amsterdamned. I meant: revenge for Brian as yet, but not intentionally.

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His Majesty
Brians guitar on the 25X5 R&R Circus clip isn't any louder than the officially released CD/DVD version.

Slightly more detailed info and 2 outtakes where you can hear Brian more clearly can be found here...

[www.iorr.org]

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Amsterdamned

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kleermaker

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Amsterdamned
<Charlie and Bill didn't play a hero's role concerning Brian. Their attitude was very consequently accepting the leading role of the Glimmers and remaining passive as much as possible. They were 'sidemen', though not without responsibility. Brian surely must have been a difficult person, regarding his relationships with women, his many children at such a young age, his violent behaviour etc. But none of those things is an excuse to treat someone, a fellow bandmember notably, that badly as Jagger and Richards treated Brian.
It may not be a secret that I like the Taylor-era most (followed by the Brian-era), but I'm glad that Taylor took the consequences and resigned by surprise, leaving the Glimmers with a musical loss they never could restore. Revenge for Brian as yet.><Kleermaker>

Not so easy to judge about the relationship between Brian and the GT's..

I don't think Taylor left out of revenge for Brian,it's not in his nature..
But apart from that I whole-hearted agree on your entire post.

Of course Taylor didn't do that, Amsterdamned. I meant: revenge for Brian as yet, but not intentionally.

I know Kleermaker, I know.

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kleermaker

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Amsterdamned

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kleermaker

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Amsterdamned
<Charlie and Bill didn't play a hero's role concerning Brian. Their attitude was very consequently accepting the leading role of the Glimmers and remaining passive as much as possible. They were 'sidemen', though not without responsibility. Brian surely must have been a difficult person, regarding his relationships with women, his many children at such a young age, his violent behaviour etc. But none of those things is an excuse to treat someone, a fellow bandmember notably, that badly as Jagger and Richards treated Brian.
It may not be a secret that I like the Taylor-era most (followed by the Brian-era), but I'm glad that Taylor took the consequences and resigned by surprise, leaving the Glimmers with a musical loss they never could restore. Revenge for Brian as yet.><Kleermaker>

Not so easy to judge about the relationship between Brian and the GT's..

I don't think Taylor left out of revenge for Brian,it's not in his nature..
But apart from that I whole-hearted agree on your entire post.

Of course Taylor didn't do that, Amsterdamned. I meant: revenge for Brian as yet, but not intentionally.

I know Kleermaker, I know.

To be perfectly clear: I meant to say that Taylor didn't do that intentionally (revenge for Brian). See it as a side-effect of his action. God punishes always (even the Glimmers), you only never know when!

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Amsterdamned

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kleermaker

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Amsterdamned

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kleermaker

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Amsterdamned
<Charlie and Bill didn't play a hero's role concerning Brian. Their attitude was very consequently accepting the leading role of the Glimmers and remaining passive as much as possible. They were 'sidemen', though not without responsibility. Brian surely must have been a difficult person, regarding his relationships with women, his many children at such a young age, his violent behaviour etc. But none of those things is an excuse to treat someone, a fellow bandmember notably, that badly as Jagger and Richards treated Brian.
It may not be a secret that I like the Taylor-era most (followed by the Brian-era), but I'm glad that Taylor took the consequences and resigned by surprise, leaving the Glimmers with a musical loss they never could restore. Revenge for Brian as yet.><Kleermaker>

Not so easy to judge about the relationship between Brian and the GT's..

I don't think Taylor left out of revenge for Brian,it's not in his nature..
But apart from that I whole-hearted agree on your entire post.

Of course Taylor didn't do that, Amsterdamned. I meant: revenge for Brian as yet, but not intentionally.

I know Kleermaker, I know.

To be perfectly clear: I meant to say that Taylor didn't do that intentionally (revenge for Brian). See it as a side-effect of his action. God punishes always (even the Glimmers), you only never know when!

I think they have been punished for at least 35 years,but than: "Ecce Homo".

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Mathijs
I continue to read all these phrases with "how bad Jagger/Richards treated Jones", in some form or another.

Let's be the devil's advocate here: what a burden was Brian to the second-most creative duo in the world? Here you are, 26 years old and on top of the world musically, ready to start a four year streak of best-ever Rock albums with a band that is going to be called "the Greatest band in the World" in one year time -and there's this washed up alcoholic slumped in the corned on a one-too-many acid trip, weeping over the loss of his girl to that ever so succesful guitarist and writer of the band you started...

I wouldn't hasitate a bit to throw him out.

Mathijs

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The Greek

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Mathijs
I continue to read all these phrases with "how bad Jagger/Richards treated Jones", in some form or another.

Let's be the devil's advocate here: what a burden was Brian to the second-most creative duo in the world? Here you are, 26 years old and on top of the world musically, ready to start a four year streak of best-ever Rock albums with a band that is going to be called "the Greatest band in the World" in one year time -and there's this washed up alcoholic slumped in the corned on a one-too-many acid trip, weeping over the loss of his girl to that ever so succesful guitarist and writer of the band you started...

I wouldn't hasitate a bit to throw him out.



Mathijs

i also would snatch anita away from brian .what a smoking hot lady back then .