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bernardanderson
sometimes there's too much ego on this messageboard.

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pablorkcz
This really is a ridiculous thread. They put out a nice reissue and did some nice promo for it. They'll get together and do whatever they want at their own pace. 'Nuff said.

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jjflash73
SNC
No problem with counterpoints, varying opinion or pure disagreement. However, arrogance and belittling ones opinion, and that is the way I read gazza's comments and then read his other comments to others within the same thread and thats my summation. He basically said my opinion was crap and he knew best. That my opinion was wrong.

Agree or disagree with that mentality as a guideline for a forum?

basically, respect.

jjflash73

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pablorkcz
No defense needed. I wasn't holding you responsible. I actually agree with your first post. "Wistful" is the perfect word. As you say, threads will be threads.

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71Tele

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pablorkcz
This really is a ridiculous thread. They put out a nice reissue and did some nice promo for it. They'll get together and do whatever they want at their own pace. 'Nuff said.

In my defense, I think the original point of the thread made sense - that is, I found it ironic that the one thing not happening in all the excitement is the Stones (or any grouping of them) actually playing any of the music. Particularly when they had a format and audience in the Late Night program for them to do it. It's a commentary on the state of the bad, good and bad.

As happens with threads, they go off in different directions, which is just fine, I think, as long as they eventually come back to the point.

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treaclefingers

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71Tele

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pablorkcz
This really is a ridiculous thread. They put out a nice reissue and did some nice promo for it. They'll get together and do whatever they want at their own pace. 'Nuff said.

In my defense, I think the original point of the thread made sense - that is, I found it ironic that the one thing not happening in all the excitement is the Stones (or any grouping of them) actually playing any of the music. Particularly when they had a format and audience in the Late Night program for them to do it. It's a commentary on the state of the bad, good and bad.

As happens with threads, they go off in different directions, which is just fine, I think, as long as they eventually come back to the point.

Well, not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I wonder if something more is going on here....regardless of whether Ron was on Exile, as a Stone he should be out there promoting with the rest of the band. I think he's a full partner now, and is reaping the rewards the band gets as a result of the extra exposure.

I think his position may be tenuous, given his behaviour of late, and Mick Jagger calling up Mick Taylor had the effect of publicly 'bitch-slapping' Ron.

Says a lot that Keith had NO say in what the Mick's did, AND he even denied that MT did any new guitar. He was either lying, or simply didn't know.

MJ's in charge...and frankly I'm glad he is.

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Loudei
You people are a bunch of idiots... this cats are pretty old to even consider a last
fix of the stones as we ve come to know them... be grateful to even get an album, a bit of creativity. Sad state of affairs? Are you kidding me... Keith is the most active stone... a book, movies, documentaries, song writing, exile... you really think these guys are superhuman.

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Rockman
AND he even denied that MT did any new guitar.

Most probably interviewed long long before Mick Taylors involvement

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colonial

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Loudei
You people are a bunch of idiots... this cats are pretty old to even consider a last
fix of the stones as we ve come to know them... be grateful to even get an album, a bit of creativity. Sad state of affairs? Are you kidding me... Keith is the most active stone... a book, movies, documentaries, song writing, exile... you really think these guys are superhuman.

Loudei..Your right ya know..ya know something else..the only Stone that hardly gets any bad mouthing is Charlie..hearing all this sort of nonsense and criticism about The Stones from a fan club of all places..some people need to wake-up to themselves.

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colonial

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Loudei
You people are a bunch of idiots... this cats are pretty old to even consider a last
fix of the stones as we ve come to know them... be grateful to even get an album, a bit of creativity. Sad state of affairs? Are you kidding me... Keith is the most active stone... a book, movies, documentaries, song writing, exile... you really think these guys are superhuman.

Loudei..Your right ya know..ya know something else..the only Stone that hardly gets any bad mouthing is Charlie..hearing all this sort of nonsense and criticism about The Stones from a fan club of all places..some people need to wake-up to themselves.

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71Tele

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colonial

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Loudei
You people are a bunch of idiots... this cats are pretty old to even consider a last
fix of the stones as we ve come to know them... be grateful to even get an album, a bit of creativity. Sad state of affairs? Are you kidding me... Keith is the most active stone... a book, movies, documentaries, song writing, exile... you really think these guys are superhuman.

Loudei..Your right ya know..ya know something else..the only Stone that hardly gets any bad mouthing is Charlie..hearing all this sort of nonsense and criticism about The Stones from a fan club of all places..some people need to wake-up to themselves.

I just thought it would have been nice to see them play some music last week, and thought it was sad that they wouldn't or couldn't. I love the Exile reissue and can't find a single bad thing to say about it. Glad they are promoting the hell out of it too.

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jjflash73
Gazza,
Ok, two out of three flew in. You get the idea though?

Otherwise I disagree with everything you say. This your opinion thats all. I see what happened and what they did. I ask for no more. You want commitments, jams, tour announcements...I don't know what else but you ain't happy.

Aside from the Stones, the Beatles have went back and re released albums and I didnt see the remaining guys get together and tour, play or even do a week of promo?

Finally, Keith doesn't have to tell you wwhy he hasn't played in 3 years. Why do you feel entitled to know and feel it is letdown?

I am surprised at your comments. Sorry, no insults meant by my post but I dodnt get it man.

jjflash73

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swiss

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jjflash73
Gazza,
Ok, two out of three flew in. You get the idea though?

Otherwise I disagree with everything you say. This your opinion thats all. I see what happened and what they did. I ask for no more. You want commitments, jams, tour announcements...I don't know what else but you ain't happy.

Aside from the Stones, the Beatles have went back and re released albums and I didnt see the remaining guys get together and tour, play or even do a week of promo?

Finally, Keith doesn't have to tell you wwhy he hasn't played in 3 years. Why do you feel entitled to know and feel it is letdown?

I am surprised at your comments. Sorry, no insults meant by my post but I dodnt get it man.

jjflash73

I agree 100%. I kinda feel like some people are expecting these human beings to function like machines for their pleasure.

Keith's entire being isn't the Rolling Stones or even playing guitar. For fans it may be, but that's not his problem. Think how fast 3 years goes by. Not for you as a fan tapping your foot waiting to them to "get on it" again. But in yur own life. Three years ago -- when I look at my own life -- seems at once like eons ago and at the same time like yesterday.

That last tour may literally have almost killed Keith. It certainly wore him the fock out. His mother died, he loved his mum a lot. Life happened. Maybe he drank too much...a year can go by in a heartbeat when shit like that's going down, 2 years. He grew a lemon tree. He played on a couple albums. He LIVED a life. He had a wife. He read. He wrote a book.

Give him a break. And maybe he wasn't inspired to play or to play the same old shit. And maybe wasn't in a creative mode...for 3 years...not that long a time given he's cranked out stuff for us the past 40 years, jumped around on stage for us, performed, gave interviews to lameass journalists. Can you imagine people insisting you behave the same way you did 40 years ago?

I'm completely grateful Mick and Keith pulled together this Exile reissue. And happy as hell they have been giving interviews and are thinking about writing, recording, touring.

This recently activity is all a blessing---they owe us nothing----they've given us (and sold us) tons. Anything more they care to share beyond this point SHOULD be for themselves only, whatever they feel moved to do.

This is a happy state of affairs to me -- and if these guys felt like retiring like most people their age -- I wouldn't begrudge them that luxury just because I want (and I really really do) to see and hear them do more.

- swiss

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colonial

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Ket

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behroez

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duke richardson
its one thing to think outside the box. but no way is there a Rolling Stones without Keith, Charlie, or Jagger.

Jagger, Charlie, Wood and Taylor sounds very much Rolling Stones to me (more than 100 yrs, yes a century of shared Stones history by these four guys).

Why not just Jagger,Charlie and some hired hands that are at their peak, I mean why just exclude Keith if your just going for ability. Face it Keith, Ronnie AND Taylor are nowhere near what they used to be.

Ket..ket..Ket.?..?...what are you on.

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StonesTod

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texas fan

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Ket

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behroez

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duke richardson
its one thing to think outside the box. but no way is there a Rolling Stones without Keith, Charlie, or Jagger.

Jagger, Charlie, Wood and Taylor sounds very much Rolling Stones to me (more than 100 yrs, yes a century of shared Stones history by these four guys).

Why not just Jagger,Charlie and some hired hands that are at their peak, I mean why just exclude Keith if your just going for ability. Face it Keith, Ronnie AND Taylor are nowhere near what they used to be.

Well, if that's the test, then Mick definitely needs to be let go, too. I'm not gonna be the one to point out that Charlie's lost a step, but someone else might...

charlie himself will tell you that...

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texas fan

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StonesTod

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texas fan

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Ket

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behroez

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duke richardson
its one thing to think outside the box. but no way is there a Rolling Stones without Keith, Charlie, or Jagger.

Jagger, Charlie, Wood and Taylor sounds very much Rolling Stones to me (more than 100 yrs, yes a century of shared Stones history by these four guys).

Why not just Jagger,Charlie and some hired hands that are at their peak, I mean why just exclude Keith if your just going for ability. Face it Keith, Ronnie AND Taylor are nowhere near what they used to be.

Well, if that's the test, then Mick definitely needs to be let go, too. I'm not gonna be the one to point out that Charlie's lost a step, but someone else might...

charlie himself will tell you that...

There you go, then. That's the lot of them...maybe Chuck can carry on as the Stones.

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Doxa
I agree wih the premise and the insight of the original post... but I don't know if the title "sad state of affairs" is a good one (because it express an opinion of preference).

There seems to be a tension between two points or options:

(1) The Stones promoting EXILE, and "looking back" to their doings as retired, elder statemen.
(2) The Stones sill being a living and breathing group of musicians.

It looks like that these two ideas do not go easily hand in hand. I think the insight (by Tele71) that The Stones didn't do anything to promote the option (2) in any of these TV appearances (and 'talk is cheap' as we know), seem to rise few thoughts about the reality of (2) all: are they really a band anymore, or do they solely "exist" in the sense of (1): showing up in movie premeiers, and to be interviewed, writing memories, etc.

I personally think that (2) is a myth nowadys, but despite that the Stones might do something together - certain gigs in certain extraordinary controlled circumstances - but the days of a touring band are over. Not even a new album is out of question, even though I think the Deluxe EXILE is more like the nature of the their forecoming releases.

With swiss I agree that we should not ask or demand "too much" from them, and I have no problem for them taking teh option (1) as their way of existence from now on. It is the time to "open the vaults" and take care of the legacy - and leave the peterpan-pretensions aside by competing with U2's latest tour numbers, etc.. My personal impression that The Stones are acually trying to find an easy way out, or a new kind of existence, after seeing that they are not physically strong enough any longer to continue the 'old' game. And jesus christ: it about the time! Of course, they won't admit, and we will hear more "at the moment I'm rusty" kind of statements. Seemingly Jagger still has much energy and urge to do something, and perhaps this kind of "watching the legacy and finishing some out-takes" is to be the medium for him from now on. Like said perhaps, some concerts or performances might be included to this new concept as well in future.

But just my thoughts.

- Doxa

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Doxa
Swiss, a wonderful post.

I share the feeling or I am having the impression that we are in some sort of transformation period now, and they are looking new ways how to do things.

But what I think is almost extraordinary and even strange with them is how little they really seem to "think" of what they do in a larger scale. They seem to work only by step by step, taking small, pragmatic moves, "Hey, Keith, what about making a new album next year and world tour. Okay?". Jagger very recently said - for example, in describing actual doing of EXILE at the time that they didn't have anything bigger idea or plan how is the album going to be like - they just made it. Song by song, session by session the album shaped itself. They only seem to discuss a kind of pragmatic, technical details, and do things with their routines, and that's all - "let's meet there", "let's play there", "see what happens" - So they are very conservative - especially now when they are older - with their moves; so really changing the working methods or finding new ways to "exist", might be very difficult for them. They've been running the band now two decades with the same receipt. It must be very difficult for them to change their manners taken the fact that they are not able to really "discuss" things in more general level.

I think the 'crisis' in the 80's was the last time they were in similar kind of tranformation process, and what happened then is an example of how difficult it was for them to really change the course of their ship because they are not able to communicate. Jagger seemingly was not happy with the Stones machine at the time, but seemingly he just couldn't discuss things with the rest of them (Keith, that is). He just did things, which resulted almost a war.

So, I think you swiss described very nicely the kind of (possible) process they are now trying to get through. I think the fact is that they have realized - they must have - that they cannot continue any longer with the old routines and concepts. That's a new challenge for them, and they don't have the culture of really discuss things and problems like these. We live interesting times.

- Doxa

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swiss

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Doxa
I agree wih the premise and the insight of the original post... but I don't know if the title "sad state of affairs" is a good one (because it express an opinion of preference).

There seems to be a tension between two points or options:

(1) The Stones promoting EXILE, and "looking back" to their doings as retired, elder statemen.
(2) The Stones sill being a living and breathing group of musicians.

It looks like that these two ideas do not go easily hand in hand. I think the insight (by Tele71) that The Stones didn't do anything to promote the option (2) in any of these TV appearances (and 'talk is cheap' as we know), seem to rise few thoughts about the reality of (2) all: are they really a band anymore, or do they solely "exist" in the sense of (1): showing up in movie premeiers, and to be interviewed, writing memories, etc.

I personally think that (2) is a myth nowadys, but despite that the Stones might do something together - certain gigs in certain extraordinary controlled circumstances - but the days of a touring band are over. Not even a new album is out of question, even though I think the Deluxe EXILE is more like the nature of the their forecoming releases.

With swiss I agree that we should not ask or demand "too much" from them, and I have no problem for them taking teh option (1) as their way of existence from now on. It is the time to "open the vaults" and take care of the legacy - and leave the peterpan-pretensions aside by competing with U2's latest tour numbers, etc.. My personal impression that The Stones are acually trying to find an easy way out, or a new kind of existence, after seeing that they are not physically strong enough any longer to continue the 'old' game. And jesus christ: it about the time! Of course, they won't admit, and we will hear more "at the moment I'm rusty" kind of statements. Seemingly Jagger still has much energy and urge to do something, and perhaps this kind of "watching the legacy and finishing some out-takes" is to be the medium for him from now on. Like said perhaps, some concerts or performances might be included to this new concept as well in future.

But just my thoughts.

- Doxa

Doxa,

That's a great assessment and set of distinctions above. I see it that way too...but with a twist.

I don't think it's a matter of (1) OR (2). I think it's more (1) AND (2). Or more of a hybrid, and not so tidy.

I think looking back has stirred something within Mick, Keith, and Charlie. I think it reconnected them with each other in a way they haven't been connected in a looooong time. In that sense, it's like pouring over the old yearbook together and remembering you actually did like --and love-- each other.

I think that they're beginning to make noises about doing something together. And I don't sense a not a shrewd ploy. I think they're authentically trying to figure out....just what it will be.

They can't do precisely what they've done before with those huge stadium shows...for many many reasons. Namely: (a) those shows aren't very good anymore, by most people's standards; (b) they're really grueling on these artists/people; (c) they're probably not as satisfying as they used to be -- the buzz of 50,000 people probably is heady as shit and stimulating -- but just not that rewarding, given how much lifeblood they have to expend. That shit doesn't regenerate the way it does when you're young -- even in your 40s.

So...they're looking bck and looking ahead. And figuring out what they want to do. Who they are now. What will move them, and move us.

Keith clearly says he wants to get together in the same place and write and record stuff with Mick. Mick seems to think he can write stuff without Keith. Wise Keith knows that he (Keith) can't write without Mick. Both can write alone, but the process, the alchemy, the results are exponentially better when they collaborate.

Keith's chops are rusty. He needs to figure out what "chops" look like for him these days. There's may be no sense in him totally focking up his hands by bashing out stuff as he used to play it.

My father has Arthitis like Keith's. My father is an athlete and uses his hands a lot. So, he gets his hands shot up with cortisone and submerges his hands in hot parfin --- and some days it hurts just to look at his hands. But other times he can do almost anything.

But what does that mean? Keith is an artist. And his best music is in his soul. The guitar expresses it so that we can hear and enjoy it. But his gift to us, and expression of his soul, isn't limited to one style of playing.

The beauty of Keith Richards and why he moves us is ultimately him. How his spirit, his cool, his beauty, his strength, his shyness, his nobility, his ballsiness, his sensitivity, his humor, his perversity wend their way onto this goodly frame, the earth, enlivening that which can sometimes seem a sterile promontory. And Keith, it also must be said, has trouble finishing things, fleshing them out after the spark of genius has flickered. He needs Mick to work with him.

And Mick---there's Mick the performer and writer of shitty tunes, and there's Mick the brilliant writer and soulmusician. Mick could probably still successfully covort around the stage.

But talk about a sterile promontory--that's what those shows seem to me. Let the dead bury their dead in terms of giant ostentatious vulgar shows.

Mick's writing alone, without Keith is shallow, hollow, bitter, and stale. So where is Mick's best self now? Is it playing and writing music? Is he even capable of "going there." Into a more contemplative thoughtful place? His REAL chops are probably rusty too -- he just wouldn't admit it as openly as Keith. And as said, I don't think Mick admits to himself how much he needs Keith.

These guys have some wounds and damage from over the years. To move forward as Stones worth listening to they're doing now what they need to, to figure out how to connect and work together.

In other words, I think they're genuinely figuring it out. And it's not like anything they've done before, draws on the past, walks/dances into the future.

- swiss